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Queen Palms in San Antonio


ChrisA

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Hello Palm Friends,

 

Reading back in the posts it seems Queen Palms are not long term viable in the San Antonio area due to some pretty severe cold weather that comes every 10 or so years.  While walking in the King William area I came across a very large sized Queen palm and was curious how long it had been there to have grown so big.  Google street view goes back to 2007 on this street and shows a good size Queen palm in the residence at the corner of Adams St and Forcke St.  This queen looked obliterated after the cold winter of 2011, but has since rebounded quite nicely.  The photo is from a visit in May of this year.

 

Any others in the Alamo City know of other examples of Queen palm in Bexar Co. that have been resilient through those occasional cold snaps?

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4104118,-98.4918678,3a,75y,66.51h,96.13t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s88C64PtdpCVCyKUN227b5g!2e0!5s20190301T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

 

King William Queen Palm.jpg

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1 hour ago, ChrisA said:

Any others in the Alamo City know of other examples of Queen palm in Bexar Co. that have been resilient through those occasional cold snaps?

Chris, that's a nice find - certainly the largest queen that I've seen here.  There really aren't many that I have seen here.  Since a bad cold in 2010 it has dropped below 20° twice and only as low as 19° which occurred my first winter here.  I personally have one planted that I protected that survived as well as another in my subdivision which is as tall as the two-story house it is planted in front of which was built after 2010.  If the one you posted was around in 2007 it not only survived 19° in 2011 but 16° in 2010 so I bet it has some trunk damage.  I don't know of any others that can say that.  There are 5 or 6 around town that I know of that survived 19° a few winters ago.

Edited by Fusca
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Jon Sunder

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Although San Antonio is slightly warmer than my area, i have never seen a mature Queen. Ive seen the small 3 gallon palms and ive seen the young pygmy dates aswell. 

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 2 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 3 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 1 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 8 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa, 1 S. bermudana, 1 L. nitida

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There is one on the Riverwalk that was never damaged From the cold due to the microclimate. It has been there since before 1999. Just up at street level there were Queens planted outside the Alamo. They were either killed or too damaged to remain in a visible spot. I was there the spring after the 2010 and 2011 big freezes. Houston took more of cold punch in 2018 than San Antonio. 
King Williams is probably the warmest residential area in the San Antonio area. It is within and just south of downtown. No surprise a couple More lived. I had a couple live too during all those cold events.

Edited by Collectorpalms
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Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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Thanks all, next time I’m back I’ll have to check for trunk damage, I didn’t notice anything too obvious but there is a lot of vegetation around this palm. I’ll be moving to San Antonio in the next 1-2 months and look forward to many more Palm options,  not to mention other subtropicals.
 

Are there mule palms available for sell there?  What are your favorite shops that sell palms and are there any unusual types (not Washingtonia, Phoenix, Livistona Butia , chaemerops, or Trachycharpus) that you know of that grows there?  Particularly interested in pinnate forms.

 

Thanks again!

Chris

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2 hours ago, ChrisA said:

Are there mule palms available for sell there?  What are your favorite shops that sell palms and are there any unusual types (not Washingtonia, Phoenix, Livistona Butia , chaemerops, or Trachycharpus) that you know of that grows there?

Actually as of this past May there have been mule palms available at Lowe's!  There really aren't too many options for palms in the immediate area that I am aware of, but Rainbow Gardens occasionally has some interesting palms for sale.  I picked up a nice 5-gal Brahea calcarea a few years back but haven't seen any for sale there since.  Also bought a 15-gal silver Serenoa repens clump from them.  Most if not all Brahea do well here - I'm personally growing clara 'icy blue' in addition to armata and brandegeei.  Sabal might be what you consider pretty common also but nearly all do well here.  I'm growing 'Riverside', uresana and guatemalensis.  In shaded area I am growing Rhapis excelsa, Chamaedorea radicalis and microspadix and I've got a Parajubaea sunkha, Trithrinax acanthocoma, Copernicia alba and prunifera.  I don't provide any winter protection for these palms.  The only palms I am zone-pushing with are Bismarckia nobilis, Acrocomia aculeata and Hyphaene coriacea.  Around town I have seen Allagoptera arenaria, Acoelorraphe wrightii, Nannorrhops ritchieana and there's a huge Jubaea chilensis growing down by the Riverwalk so really there's lots of options if you can find them.

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Jon Sunder

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North of the riverwalk in the older part of town if a really good microclimate as well. Queens would grow long term there for sure, people just didnt plant them. 

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Thanks guys!  It sounds like there is a huge variety of palms that can be grown there! I’m looking forward to the change in climate and more rain!  Lol!  I had a Sabal uresana here in Albuquerque that croaked last winter and was barely making it through the summers.  It’ll be nice to not have to struggle with palms every year, hoping they’ll not get fried. I visited Evergreen Garden and Rainbow Gardens during my last visit and didn’t see to much variety. I tried to visit Palm Buddha, and drove by twice, but seems they still hadn’t opened possibly due to COVID. I’ll be near to the Botanical Garden so hopefully I’ll be able to sneak a Queen or two into that area.  What palms did the botanical garden used to have?  I’ve been there a few times now and have seen the Brahma armata, Needle Palm, Chinese Fan palm, Mexican Fan palms, Sabals, Nannorhops ritcheana, and cycads. I would LOVE to have a Bizmarckia, but would be devastated if I lost it!  I’ve seen some small ones along the riverwalk. Seems like they’re more suitable down near the RGV and South Padre Island.  The prediction from the National Climate Assessment group San Antonio should be in a solid zone 9 in 30 years.   I know there can be some severe cold snaps that come through occasionally which can undo any “average” low in one bad night, so it’ll be interesting to see how the next several years pan out!  
 

Thanks for all the info you’ve provided!  Looks like I’ll have to head up to the Dallas area to check out Texas Hardy Palms. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/14/2020 at 8:59 PM, ChrisA said:

Thanks guys!  It sounds like there is a huge variety of palms that can be grown there! I’m looking forward to the change in climate and more rain!  Lol!  I had a Sabal uresana here in Albuquerque that croaked last winter and was barely making it through the summers.  It’ll be nice to not have to struggle with palms every year, hoping they’ll not get fried. I visited Evergreen Garden and Rainbow Gardens during my last visit and didn’t see to much variety. I tried to visit Palm Buddha, and drove by twice, but seems they still hadn’t opened possibly due to COVID. I’ll be near to the Botanical Garden so hopefully I’ll be able to sneak a Queen or two into that area.  What palms did the botanical garden used to have?  I’ve been there a few times now and have seen the Brahma armata, Needle Palm, Chinese Fan palm, Mexican Fan palms, Sabals, Nannorhops ritcheana, and cycads. I would LOVE to have a Bizmarckia, but would be devastated if I lost it!  I’ve seen some small ones along the riverwalk. Seems like they’re more suitable down near the RGV and South Padre Island.  The prediction from the National Climate Assessment group San Antonio should be in a solid zone 9 in 30 years.   I know there can be some severe cold snaps that come through occasionally which can undo any “average” low in one bad night, so it’ll be interesting to see how the next several years pan out!  
 

Thanks for all the info you’ve provided!  Looks like I’ll have to head up to the Dallas area to check out Texas Hardy Palms. 

There are quite a few zone 8b areas inside 1604, but you should be safe inside 410 and east of I35.

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Should be okay, check local weather stations. San Antonio has a lot of variation, parts of the north, north west, and north east sides will see below 20F, while the east, south eastern and central parts will be mild.

San Antonio international airport temperatures are a lie.

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I'll give an example for my previous comment.

If anyone here is familiar with the city of Leon Valley, there is a vacant property off of poss road between the park and Felipa Salazar that had at least a dozen volunteer date palms growing in a wooded area. Every palm died during the winter of 08/09, which was not a particularly cold winter. This area is about 2 miles NW of loop 410.

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Thanks! I’m very close to the Botanical Garden and Ft. Sam Houston.  I can imagine Leon Valley getting cold, the Palm Buddha is over in that area also. Are they still open?

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I found a couple of Queen Palms on google maps 50 miles north of downtown Houston in Willis, TX. The image capture is from 2013, so I don't know if they survived the big freeze in 2018.

20201111_132020.png

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On 11/4/2020 at 11:01 PM, ChrisA said:

Thanks! I’m very close to the Botanical Garden and Ft. Sam Houston.  I can imagine Leon Valley getting cold, the Palm Buddha is over in that area also. Are they still open?

Definitely a warmer area. The central area is fairly mild and I've seen areas of the south side where the mesquite don't loose their leaves.

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On 11/11/2020 at 1:24 PM, Teegurr said:

I found a couple of Queen Palms on google maps 50 miles north of downtown Houston in Willis, TX. The image capture is from 2013, so I don't know if they survived the big freeze in 2018.

99% no. You need to travel another 30 miles south down I-45 to see larger/10+ year old queen palms. Around FM-1960 is the mostly hard kill-line and BW8 is the soft kill-line.  In the vast majority of cases, queens did not survive in Conroe, the Woodlands, or Spring. 

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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On 11/4/2020 at 11:01 PM, ChrisA said:

Thanks! I’m very close to the Botanical Garden and Ft. Sam Houston.  I can imagine Leon Valley getting cold, the Palm Buddha is over in that area also. Are they still open?

Chris, I just stopped by Palm Buddha on Saturday.  They're mostly installs and landscaping but have been open to the public the past few years.  Mostly large common stuff, but they do carry some Brahea which is not typical around here.  Not open on Sunday and only 9-1 on Saturday.  They close at 5 during the week.  Nice folks!

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Jon Sunder

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/16/2020 at 6:18 AM, Fusca said:

Chris, I just stopped by Palm Buddha on Saturday.  They're mostly installs and landscaping but have been open to the public the past few years.  Mostly large common stuff, but they do carry some Brahea which is not typical around here.  Not open on Sunday and only 9-1 on Saturday.  They close at 5 during the week.  Nice folks!

Hi!  Thanks for the info!  I was in SA for the last three weeks. I stopped by on Saturday 11/27 but they were closed. I've tried calling before I've gone but the voicemail is full and there is no answer.  I should be moving for good in January, so I will be able to stop by more frequently. I'm dying to see what they've got in inventory. I prowled around the area along the street, mostly Chaemerops and P. dacylifera along that strip.   Driving around though I've seen a LOT more queen palms around, many that are a good size.  I think TXColdHardy palms is correct, in that they can survive long term in a good microclimate/part of town.  

 

In my neighborhood I actually saw a LARGE Phoenix roebelinii. I'm unsure if it has ever received protection but it must be in the realm of 5-6' of trunk with the fronds reaching above that. I'll need to look on google maps to see if I can ascertain how long it's been there.

 

Happy December to all!

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  • 1 month later...

Mature Syagrus romanzoffiana at a Taco Cabana on the southside.  Snapped this picture yesterday.  2347 E Southcross Blvd, San Antonio, TX 78223

image.thumb.png.7d4cebfeaaae803a5b2921a239d27822.png

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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1 hour ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Mature Syagrus romanzoffiana at a Taco Cabana on the southside.  Snapped this picture yesterday.  2347 E Southcross Blvd, San Antonio, TX 78223

Very cool.

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30 minutes ago, amh said:

Very cool.

Also, mature Phoenix roebelenii (in previous picture) and Livistona chinensis (pictured below).

image.thumb.png.0d40f31efcc68c9823e276d03031d0ed.png

image.thumb.png.b75c50ebcff6d20f53231c999338945d.png

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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Those are some beauties at that Taco Cabana! The more I’m looking around while driving the more large Phoenix roebelinii I’m seeing!  What’s up with those?  I’ve always read that they were a zone 9b palm. I’ll be downright giddy as spring approaches and I have the bandwidth to start thinking of the landscaping I can do here.

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The roebellini have been at that Southcross location for years.  There are some long term queens in the city inside of the 410 loop.  I’ve seen a few in the neighborhood around the Botanical garden too.  There’s a large, old phoenix reclinata hybrid growing inside of Sam Houston.  

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On 9/3/2020 at 7:06 PM, ChrisA said:

Hello Palm Friends,

 

Reading back in the posts it seems Queen Palms are not long term viable in the San Antonio area due to some pretty severe cold weather that comes every 10 or so years.  While walking in the King William area I came across a very large sized Queen palm and was curious how long it had been there to have grown so big.  Google street view goes back to 2007 on this street and shows a good size Queen palm in the residence at the corner of Adams St and Forcke St.  This queen looked obliterated after the cold winter of 2011, but has since rebounded quite nicely.  The photo is from a visit in May of this year.

 

Any others in the Alamo City know of other examples of Queen palm in Bexar Co. that have been resilient through those occasional cold snaps?

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4104118,-98.4918678,3a,75y,66.51h,96.13t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s88C64PtdpCVCyKUN227b5g!2e0!5s20190301T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

 

King William Queen Palm.jpg

Why don't they plant dypsis decipens, nikau palm or king palms instead, they are much nicer palms.

Edited by EastCanadaTropicals

Nothing to say here. 

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1 hour ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Why don't they plant dypsis decipens, nikau palm or king palms instead, they are much nicer palms.

Maybe this is what they wanted to plant on their property with their money that they earned. 

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2 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Why don't they plant dypsis decipens, nikau palm or king palms instead, they are much nicer palms.

And these palms are not available in nurseries or garden centers here - they would have to be shipped as small plants from an online purchase or brought back from a 1000+ mile road trip.  In addition to this, Dypsis decipiens does not ship well and many growers (if not all) in CA will not risk shipping them.

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Jon Sunder

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Nikau wouldn't stand a chance in the TX heat anyways and king palms are mostly too tender for San Antonio (would make a nice specimen for the Riverwalk though)

Not a full queen,  but here is a nice mule at the Riverwalk. Photo taken New Year's Day

139033368_322724582379422_5923641773681309197_n.thumb.jpg.c5e74b105d503aa4aa91513dc5d33a4b.jpg

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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18 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Maybe this is what they wanted to plant on their property with their money that they earned. 

Ok, just saying. I have nothing against the person.

Nothing to say here. 

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I rarely go south of Sonterra, but have noticed that the taco cabanas usually have interesting landscaping. Has anyone considered starting a thread on franchises that frequently use palms?

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4 minutes ago, amh said:

I rarely go south of Sonterra, but have noticed that the taco cabanas usually have interesting landscaping. Has anyone considered starting a thread on franchises that frequently use palms?

Their breakfast tacos go hard too :shaka-2:

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32 minutes ago, amh said:

I rarely go south of Sonterra, but have noticed that the taco cabanas usually have interesting landscaping. Has anyone considered starting a thread on franchises that frequently use palms?

I believe there's an old thread dedicated to the In-N-Out burger chain with their famous criss-crossed Washingtonias.  They started in California and have migrated east to Texas.  Ones around here have the Washies but there's one up IH-35 N somewhere that has substituted Sabals for the Washies.  Taco Cabana has the best diversity of hardy palms of any chain that I know of - I don't think I've ever seen one in the past 25 years without at least 2 or 3 different species in their landscape.

Edited by Fusca
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Jon Sunder

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16 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I believe there's an old thread dedicated to the In-N-Out burger chain with their famous criss-crossed Washingtonias.  They started in California and have migrated east to Texas.  Ones around here have the Washies but there's one up IH-35 N somewhere that has substituted Sabals for the Washies.  Taco Cabana has the best diversity of hardy palms of any chain that I know of - I don't think I've ever seen one in the past 25 years without at least 2or 3 different species in their landscape.

I'm familiar with the in-n-out thread and was thinking of that when I posted. I'm curious about regional bars and restaurants.

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23 hours ago, amh said:

I'm familiar with the in-n-out thread and was thinking of that when I posted. I'm curious about regional bars and restaurants.

I have seen Washingtonia robusta, Livistona chinensis, Syagrus romanzoffiana, Phoenix canariensis, Phoenix roebelenii, Sabal palmetto, Chamaerops humilis, and Trachycarpus fortunei at various Taco Cabanas in San Antonio.  I have seen Washingtonia robusta, Sabal palmetto, and Butia odorata (281 north of 1604) at In-N-Outs in San Antonio.  All were mature specimens.  The Pappadoux on I-10W has a nice selection of palms around the building, including Phoenix dactylifera.  Speaking of which, they recently planted a bunch of mature Phoenix dactylifera at the RIM (mostly in the apartments area, but some also near the new Southerleigh Restaurant at the RIM).  Ultravision (Dr. Tomy Starck) is trying to grow two juvenile Bismarckia nobilis off I-10W just outside 1604.  This is Dr. Starck's second attempt at young Bismarckia nobilis (his first two died after an overnight wet freeze we had during the 2016/2017 winter).  Ultravision wrapped up their two new Bismarckia nobilis during the temperature drop a couple of weeks ago, so I guess they wised up (or their landscape guy did); here are some shots of one of their juvenile Bismarckia nobilis I took earlier this month:

image.thumb.png.857d9b5c136fddb80a04cf95b781419f.png

image.thumb.png.291e041dc6c7a5cec013ccf6d663baa4.png

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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On 1/19/2021 at 11:43 PM, Xenon said:

Not a full queen,  but here is a nice mule at the Riverwalk. Photo taken New Year's Day

I know the Mule(s) in your picture!  I think those are the infamous Mules that frame the Statue of St. Anthony on the Riverwalk.  Here is a shot I took of them in February of 2017.

DSC_7821-1.jpg

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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22 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

I know the Mule(s) in your picture!  I think those are the infamous Mules that frame the Statue of St. Anthony on the Riverwalk.  Here is a shot I took of them in February of 2017.

DSC_7821-1.jpg

great shot.

It appears I need to travel more, its been decades since I last visited the river walk and at  least 6 since I've visited the missions. I cant remember if there were any palms growing besides washingtonias.

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28 minutes ago, amh said:

great shot.

It appears I need to travel more, its been decades since I last visited the river walk and at  least 6 since I've visited the missions. I cant remember if there were any palms growing besides washingtonias.

This is a good Riverwalk palm thread:

 

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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First post in forever, used to post all the time years ago.

Queens like the one in the OP's picture were fairly common in SA prior to 2010.  The 2010/11 freezes killed a lot of them out.  Before 2010, it had been a good 20-21 years since the previous Queen killing freeze.  You could have literally planted a queen in 1990 and it would have been a monster by 2010.  I used to see them even in cold areas of town and suburbs on the NE side of town.  Those freezes wiped out a good chunk of queens.  A few survived (very few).  

I say go ahead and plant one, you might get 3 years out of it, or 20 years, you just never know.  A lot of winters in SA are hardly dropping below freezing many years.

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There are several Bismarckia near the mule palms at the Riverwalk too. 

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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Another gratuitous Riverwalk palm shot from February of 2017....

DSC_7825-1.jpg

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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More recent (i.e., last weekend)....

image.thumb.png.c73d34aa49ef1cb2bc19dabdc08f5185.png

image.thumb.png.841879db3872b671ef28ab3f1ce2064c.png

image.thumb.png.75ad811e4eacd248f2ac23981f2e00b7.png

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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