What are the chances of a Sabal palmetto surviving in zone 7a?

[JLM]

I want to give my oldest palmetto to a family member who loves palms. This said family member lives in Tennessee zone 7a, wuld it survive in the ground here? I have a very limited amount time to know from someone elses opinion. I think it could with protection as this part of TN can easily drop below 0F at times with the most snow ive ever seen being 13 inches. The usual amount is 6" every year depending on how things set up. Clipper systems are usually what will get ya. 

[yabazid]

No way ever without dedicated protection. You might want to try Sabal minor, or if you wanted some trunk you could try a Sabal Birmingham and Sabal brazoria. Still might need protection but they are hardier than the palmetto 

[Allen]

I have 2 baby ones.  I know someone here who had one live for 10 years.   In my 7A, temps have dropped below 10F on 50% of last 20 years.   Palmetto will take down to around these temps.   It is possible to get to survive with lots of help.  What size palm is it?   And. Are you transplanting from your FL yard?   They don’t move well.  

Edited July 10, 2020 by Allen

[JLM]

@Allen

Its a baby seedling, germinated not very long ago. Its been in a pot its whole life. The conditions it will be in if planted up there i think would be ok. It would be planted up against an older brick house so lots of heat from it. There is also plenty of canopy around the house. Huge oak trees. I think with protection it would work out ok. Havent had that much in the way of snow for the past few years compared to what they have seen before. I know palmetto can take some near death cold now and again and survive. 

[Allen]

2 hours ago, Allen said:

I have 2 baby ones.  I know someone here who had one live for 10 years.   In my 7a temps have dropped below 10F on 50% of years.   Palmetto will take down to around these temps.   It is possible to get to survive with lots of help.  What size palm is it.   And. Are you transplanting from your fl yard?   They don’t move well.

A small palmetto can survive here for quite some time as they have hardiness close to that of Sabal minor when young.  The spear is at/below ground level at that age.  When trunking (10 years)  it will be less hardy as it ages.  In winter for several years now you can cover with a thick pine needle mulch around the bottom during Jan till first of March.  But throw a large pot over it on arctic blast nights, generally 1-2 times per year of 1-3 nights.   My friend was in 6B and his was trunking nice and a pretty large palm with 1-2 foot trunk and maybe 8' tall when a arctic vortex killed it.  It's definitely worth a shot though BUT knowing it may die sometime depending on protection.  Look at my signature for palms I have here, several will do well with little or no protection.   Trachy is the most robust TRUNKING palm here because it loves clay soil but will require protection most winters.  My Trachy are growing at astonishing speed.  Needles and several sabal minor varieties need no protection and several sabal like Birmingham need protection on the rarest years.  

Here's my 7A yard and most palms to give you a idea of tropical possibilities in TN.  Most everything in video comes back in 7A except the upright elephant ear and the tropical hibiscus.  10 seconds in is one of the small Palmetto.  been in ground for 2 years as seeding. No protection so far as last 2 years were warm here. 

Below is a Trachy planted from a barely trunking 3 gallon size 3 years ago.  A yard stick in picture for scale.  A small planted Sabal would still be the size of a Sabal minor (food for thought)

Edited July 10, 2020 by Allen

[donnacreation]

I wouldn't plant any trunking palms that have to be protected during winter.  Period.  You're just setting yourself up for failure.  Even with protection, palms get too big to protect unless you're into carpentry and are inclined to build structures around them for winter protection. Go with Windmills, needle palms and dwarf palmettos. You might be able to find some extra cold hardy hybrids, but most trunking palms just can't take temps at zero.  Rhododendrons, hostas and conifers are pretty in Tennessee and don't look out of place.  Eventually, you'll get old and you won't be into heroics anymore. Don't waste your time moving a palmetto - it will die. I'm speaking from experience. I've invested $, time and heroics in mule palms  CIDP's and phoenix sylvestris, and in zone 8a, central SC, I found it to be a disappointing waste of time and energy.  There are various forms of windmills, when planted in mass, that will give you a tropical look. I live close to Stan the citrus man, but he covers his citrus in ice and builds structures around some.  They're mostly Satsumas, and even he had many die a few winters ago, when Eastern SC had an extended period of snow cover and record cold. There's always that once every 30 yr cold snap that will wipe out marginal palms and ,with rogue polar vortexes occasionally wreaking havoc, the odds are not in your favor.. I bought a few out of zone Red Button Gingers, but I have them in light weight containers and will be overwintering them indoors.  Excuse my negativity, but know I wish you well. Even with global warming, we're still in an Ice Age.

[Swolte]

I agree with Donnacreation. Having said that, if you have a lot of patience and are determined, you may want to try a Sabal Birmingham. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Swolte

[donnacreation]

 I wouldn't plant any trunking palms that have to be protected during winter.  Period.  You're just setting yourself up for failure.  Even with protection, palms get too big to protect unless you're into carpentry and are inclined to build structures around them for winter protection. Go with Windmills, needle palms and dwarf palmettos. You might be able to find some extra cold hardy hybrids, but most trunking palms just can't take temps at zero.  Rhododendrons, hostas and conifers are pretty in Tennessee and don't look out of place.  Eventually, you'll get old and you won't be into heroics anymore. Don't waste your time moving a palmetto - it will die. I'm speaking from experience. I've invested $, time and heroics in mule palms  CIDP's and phoenix sylvestris, and in zone 8a, central SC, I found it to be a disappointing waste of time and energy.  There are various forms of windmills, when planted en masse, that will give you a tropical look. I live close to Stan the citrus man, but he covers his citrus in ice and builds structures around some.  They're mostly Satsumas, and even he had many die a few winters ago, when Eastern SC had an extended period of snow cover and record cold. There's always that once every 30 yr cold snap that will wipe out marginal palms and ,with rogue polar vortexes occasionally wreaking havoc, the odds are not in your favor.. I bought a few out of zone Red Button Gingers, but I have them in light weight containers and will be overwintering them indoors.  Excuse my negativity, but know I wish you well. Even with global warming, we're still in an Ice Age.          (Grammatical update: Sorry I was  exhausted and sleepy when I wrote my post last night.  Of course I meant planting various varieties of windmill palms en masse, not in mass.  Sorry for my error.)

Edited July 11, 2020 by donnacreation

[Allen]

Here is a Sabal in 7a Athens TN posted in another board I go to.  It apparently went thru the 2018 cold spell and is apparently not protected.  This is a 2019 pic.  I wasn't sure if I could post a link to another forum.   It is apparently close to one of the forum members homes there.  The one my friend grew in 6b was like this by the house and a little smaller after 10 years.  That board has quite a few members growing Palmetto in 7a.    Usually the best advice when planting something marginal is to plant some other zone friendly palms/plants close so you won't miss the loss as much if it dies.   I plant layers of palms like needle in back then minors around some zone pushing ones.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Allen

[donnacreation]

 Well shut my mouth!  I think palmettos grown from seedlings are more cold hardy than bare root palmettos grown in FL and transplanted in points north. I wonder, as this palmetto grows tall, if it's going to have a skinny or bulky trunk? I would guess it's 5 or 6 yrs old.  Very impressive!

[cm05]

Sabal palmetto in Bridgeport, CT (zone 7a):

This palm gets protected but I don’t know if it gets supplemental heating:

 

[JLM]

Thanks for the replies! This was grown from seed and still has not fully developed the first leaf yet. I think it will survive for a decent amount of time. Might be of best interest to keep it in a pot. If she decides to plant it, what are the best protection methods you would recommend for a small palm as it will be for a little while?

[Allen]

3 hours ago, JLM said:

If she decides to plant it, what are the best protection methods you would recommend for a small palm as it will be for a little while?

I think I mentioned it - thick layer of pine needles or a plastic pot only on cold nights.  Nights that would hurt it you should be able to count on one hand.  

[mdsonofthesouth]

I have a SE North Carolina palmetto growing in my z7a garden but it's up against the house, shielded from northern winds and gets a lot of sun from morning to mid afternoon.

[NCFM]

11 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

I have a SE North Carolina palmetto growing in my z7a garden but it's up against the house, shielded from northern winds and gets a lot of sun from morning to mid afternoon.

Is that the Bald Head Island variety?

Edited July 14, 2020 by NC_Palm_Enthusiast

[PalmTreeDude]

I currently have only seedlings in the ground here on the edge of zone 7a/7b (Richmond, VA area). They should mostly all survive until their growth point is exposed. I threw seeds right off of a seed stalk around my planter. In the first winter quite a few died and now only the stronger ones are left, and they do fine at their current size. I’ll post new pictures later when I get a chance. In other words, if you are in a southern zone 7a (I’m not sure if people would say that includes me or not, I think most people tend to say NC and south), a Sabal palmetto, especially a young one grown from seedling size, might survive for a number of years before extreme cold wipes it out. That’s just my take on this, although there are examples that say otherwise. I would certainly try it though, maybe it will work out! 

Edited July 14, 2020 by PalmTreeDude
Typos

[CodyORB]

On 7/10/2020 at 8:18 PM, donnacreation said:

I live close to Stan the citrus man, but he covers his citrus in ice and builds structures around some. 

Covers his citrus in ice? Gotta be a typo 

[JLM]

Im not exactly sure where it will be planted if it gets planted because it will be a gift to a family member. She freaked when she saw her first "palm", it was a sago. Sabal palmetto would be a big treat for her! If i had a general area that she would plant it, it would likely go on the northern side as her house faces north. Plenty of canopy, and with the house being so old, it would release a decent amount of heat. Pine needle will be a recomendation aswell as the pot for extreme cold or big snow events. 

[mdsonofthesouth]

12 hours ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Is that the Bald Head Island variety?

 

Not sure to be honest. I got it from a member here who lives in SE NC. Does not have a trunk yet so it's more than hardy for the time being.

Edited July 15, 2020 by mdsonofthesouth

[VA Palmer]

On 7/10/2020 at 11:48 AM, Allen said:

A small palmetto can survive here for quite some time as they have hardiness close to that of Sabal minor when young.  The spear is at/below ground level at that age.  When trunking (10 years)  it will be less hardy as it ages.  In winter for several years now you can cover with a thick pine needle mulch around the bottom during Jan till first of March.  But throw a large pot over it on arctic blast nights, generally 1-2 times per year of 1-3 nights.   My friend was in 6B and his was trunking nice and a pretty large palm with 1-2 foot trunk and maybe 8' tall when a arctic vortex killed it.  It's definitely worth a shot though BUT knowing it may die sometime depending on protection.  Look at my signature for palms I have here, several will do well with little or no protection.   Trachy is the most robust TRUNKING palm here because it loves clay soil but will require protection most winters.  My Trachy are growing at astonishing speed.  Needles and several sabal minor varieties need no protection and several sabal like Birmingham need protection on the rarest years.  

Here's my 7A yard and most palms to give you a idea of tropical possibilities in TN.  Most everything in video comes back in 7A except the upright elephant ear and the tropical hibiscus.  10 seconds in is one of the small Palmetto.  been in ground for 2 years as seeding. No protection so far as last 2 years were warm here. 

Below is a Trachy planted from a barely trunking 3 gallon size 3 years ago.  A yard stick in picture for scale.  A small planted Sabal would still be the size of a Sabal minor (food for thought)

I have had success with the cold-hardy Pink China (colocasia esculenta) elephant ears in NoVA 7A.  The come back and get really big:

 

[Allen]

55 minutes ago, VA Palmer said:

I have had success with the cold-hardy Pink China (colocasia esculenta) elephant ears in NoVA 7A.  The come back and get really big:

 

All Colocasia varieties do well in 7A.  Alocasia (Upright more tropical elephant ear) don't overwinter.  Mine Colocasia went thru 2018 0F and all came back.  Pink China is aggressive almost to being invasive.