SAGO fronds curling

[Guest Dave L]

Hi.  I realize that a Sago is not a true palm, but I'm hoping someone has experienced this.  Several (not all) of the fronds are curling at the ends.....its not throughout the plant and only on one side.  I would appreciate any advice.  I've attached some pics to give some clarity to the curling.  

FYI, I'm growing 8 palm varieties grow beds (not pots), in an all season greenhouse; in a soil mix of 50% topsoil, 20% peat, 20% compost, 10% perlite; with drip irrigation. 

Many thanks

dave

[Fusca]

I'm not a cycad expert by any means but it doesn't look like a problem to me.  Hopefully someone else will chime in.  I'm treating a manganese deficiency on mine currently which caused yellow spots on the leaves.  Nice setup you have there!  What palms are you growing besides the Phoenix roebelenii?

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Looks like something rested against or pushed the leaves when they were soft during flushing. I dont see anything to be alarmed about.

[Butch]

I spent yesterday trimming mine, and had many that were curling like that... They were overgrown with pups and dropped seedlings... Where ever they came in close contact with other fronds, they did that... Other than that, they were really healthy... I don't think you have anything to worry about... I should have taken some pics... They were much worse than yours...

 

Butch

[NCFM]

20 hours ago, Fusca said:

I'm not a cycad expert by any means but it doesn't look like a problem to me.  Hopefully someone else will chime in.  I'm treating a manganese deficiency on mine currently which caused yellow spots on the leaves.  Nice setup you have there!  What palms are you growing besides the Phoenix roebelenii?

My sago has some yellow on some of its fronds. I thought it was just new growth, but is this perhaps something I should instead be worried about?

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

My sago has some yellow on some of its fronds. I thought it was just new growth, but is this perhaps something I should instead be worried about?

For some reason I can't see your photo, but here is mine.  The leaf on the right is the worst looking one.  I have seen other sagos in my neighborhood that look the same way.

 

[NCFM]

16 minutes ago, Fusca said:

For some reason I can't see your photo, but here is mine.  The leaf on the right is the worst looking one.  I have seen other sagos in my neighborhood that look the same way.

 

Can you see it now? Before I only copy/pasted the photo in so that might've been why you couldn't see it

Looking at your picture I don't think it is having the same problem, hopefully this is just new growth or something

Edited June 15, 2020 by NC_Palm_Enthusiast

[JLM]

After cleaning my sagos up about 3 weeks ago, one of them is already almost fully flushed. This is just a few months after it was transplanted into a pot with mostly sand with some palm soil. The flush is still soft but is looking better than ever. The second sago remains naked in the front yard, it will soon start flushing. There are a lot of naked sagos in the neighborhood, some with cones, some without. Im hoping these sagos will fully recover from the huge neglect given by the previous owners. The smallest sago was covered with mulch and most of the fronds were dead, no flush in sight. It still has a curve to the crownshaft from where they were too close to the house, so i when i cleaned them 3 weeks ago i cut off all the fronds to hopefully help straighten them out.

[Steve Mac]

Manganese deficiency.

[Fusca]

12 hours ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Can you see it now? Before I only copy/pasted the photo in so that might've been why you couldn't see it

Looking at your picture I don't think it is having the same problem, hopefully this is just new growth or something

I think it is the same manganese deficiency except mine is worse and further advanced than yours.  I gave mine some palm fertilizer with manganese but am looking into getting some manganese sulfate if needed.

[NCFM]

7 hours ago, Fusca said:

I think it is the same manganese deficiency except mine is worse and further advanced than yours.  I gave mine some palm fertilizer with manganese but am looking into getting some manganese sulfate if needed.

Oh wow. What brand fertilizer did you use? I guess I'll get some and try to fix this before it can get any worse

[Fusca]

I use Palmgain for my palms, but probably any fertilizer with manganese in the micronutrients would do.  I looked for manganese sulfate locally but didn't find it but I'm hoping the Palmgain will work.  This is the first time I've had this problem.

[NCFM]

39 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I use Palmgain for my palms, but probably any fertilizer with manganese in the micronutrients would do.  I looked for manganese sulfate locally but didn't find it but I'm hoping the Palmgain will work.  This is the first time I've had this problem.

Thanks

[Guest Dave L]

On 6/13/2020 at 10:01 PM, Fusca said:

I'm not a cycad expert by any means but it doesn't look like a problem to me.  Hopefully someone else will chime in.  I'm treating a manganese deficiency on mine currently which caused yellow spots on the leaves.  Nice setup you have there!  What palms are you growing besides the Phoenix roebelenii?

Thank you for the reply.  Yes, I am very proud of the greenhouse.  A long time in coming.  I now have A Bottle, 2 Butterfly's, Raphis, 2 Phoenix Roebeleni, Old Man, Bismarck, European Fan...and the Sago.  I've been rather paranoid about these since I planted them in early April.  So I'm trying to stay on top on any issue I see.  Thanks again.  

[Steve Mac]

Dave, I asked a similar question a while ago. the condition was more pronounced.  This is one of the answers that I received, it was from Gene in Arizona.The take home message is that a lot of manganese sulphate may be required not the usual 'less is better' as with actual fertiliser.

 "Yes, it is obvious to me:  Manganese deficiency.  Get manganese sulfate and put four cups around the trunk 10 inches out from the trunk and water in.  You could also dilute that same amount in water and water it in.  The present leaves won't change at all, but the next growth will improve tremendously and then continue to improve on subsequent flushes.  Seeing your soil, I'd apply every year.  There's no disease present here, only a deficiency."

 

[Fusca]

11 hours ago, gtsteve said:

Dave, I asked a similar question a while ago. the condition was more pronounced.  This is one of the answers that I received, it was from Gene in Arizona.The take home message is that a lot of manganese sulphate may be required not the usual 'less is better' as with actual fertiliser.

 "Yes, it is obvious to me:  Manganese deficiency.  Get manganese sulfate and put four cups around the trunk 10 inches out from the trunk and water in.  You could also dilute that same amount in water and water it in.  The present leaves won't change at all, but the next growth will improve tremendously and then continue to improve on subsequent flushes.  Seeing your soil, I'd apply every year.  There's no disease present here, only a deficiency."

 

Steve, I read that thread you quoted a few days ago.  I came to the conclusion that I probably need to add some manganese sulfate for mine as you have noted here.  As I recall that sago of your neighbor's looked pretty bad but mine doesn't look too bad presently.  I believe adding the Mn won't improve the looks of the current leaves but will help with future flushes, is that right?  Also do you think Dave's sago with the curling leaves has Mn deficiency also or were you just replying to @NC_Palm_Enthusiast and I with our yellowing leaves?

[Steve Mac]

@Fusca, I don't think that Dave's curling leaves is the same problem as the yellowing and subsequent dieing of leaflets, that is apparently common.  Our soil is very low in nutrients and It took a while to find the specific problem of our and a lot of neighbours cycads. We had started to fertilize and add micro nutrients for a few years now, but it appears that it was nowhere near enough.  After each beautiful flush sections of the plant would slowly yellow and die starting like the pics above and finishing like this. This is our plant now. Before the next flush I will give it the treatment as Gene advised.

Strangely none of our other cycads appear to be bothered by our poor soil, but the sago does grow much faster.  And yes once it starts to yellow, for me,  it is too late nothing brings it back. 

Edit, I have just been advised that the fronds did curl (I forgot) before fertilizing with micro nutrients including manganese and that problem was cured. 

 

[Fusca]

Wow Steve, that's a bummer to have your sago look like that!  Looks like I need to find some manganese sulfate - no local source so looks like an online purchase.  It's good to know that high applications of it won't burn like fertilizer.  Just for kicks I took a walk around the neighborhood and took an inventory and saw 19 of the 21 sagos had yellow specks like mine.  Some were a bit worse but most were about equal.  I'm sure that very few (if any) are adding fertilizer to them.  They do well to keep their lawns mowed!

[Jen71897]

Help!! I have been searching and searching for info on fertilizing my potted Sago, which I have had for about 10 years. I have only used palm/cactus soil and water as recommended, with no problems until now. I have never fertilized it. It's recent growth yielded eight new fronds that have gotten very long and are curling under tightly at the end (almost like a swirl). There is also some discoloration with a few tips having turned completely brown. From my research, I think it might be suffering from a nutrient deficiency. I purchased palm fertilizer that I saw recommended on a few sites for use with sagos. However, I have no idea how much to use. All directions seem geared toward larger, outdoor trees. I don't think my Sago in it's 16" diameter pot needs a pound of granules... Any advice greatly appreciated! 

[Steve Mac]

Hi Jen, welcome to the forum.

Go back half a dozen posts to about the 16th, and reread the posts from there, I think that should answer you question. I think that the short answer is to use palm fertiliser at the recommended rate and frequency plus extra manganese.

[lzorrito]

Hi! You can also use earthworm humus, in small quantities. Embedded in the soil or placed on top of the potting soil. It is probably the best natural fertilizer out there. I use it on my sagos. Sometimes I recover badly treated palms or sagos from other people or even nurseries. Right now I am recovering a sago (it was super yellow and very weak), using a very draining soil (coco coir; perlite; vermiculite) with 5% of earthworm humus ... doing well!

Oh! And I also use liquid fertilizer NPK 7-3-6, weekly.

Edited August 4, 2020 by lzorrito