Need more help with Xmas palms please

[Noob2palms]

Hi! I posted a bit ago about my Xmas palms fading and it was determined that they needed to be acclimated the the sun as they may have been grown in a warehouse / shade. 
I have since followed the guide to slowly acclimate them. 
my palms seem to be look worse and worse and days go by. I have a moisture meter and am watering them in accordance to that and my finger in the dirt. The leaves are very dry and it has been windy here as well. (I’m in NYC) 
 

my biggest concern is that the spear leaf now seems to be browning a bit... does this still look like sun damage? Perhaps something else is at play? 
 

the garden place I got them from said they are fertilized and good until July 

 

thanks for any input! 

 

 

[PalmX]

Dang that looks rough.. Doesn't look like sunburn to me.. that's typically less splotchy looking than what you've got going on.

Looks more like wind or abrasion damage if the fronds are not used to it. 

Might also be root rot or something bacterial? 

Not sure though, really just my best guesses at this point.

[Noob2palms]

31 minutes ago, PalmX said:

Dang that looks rough.. Doesn't look like sunburn to me.. that's typically less splotchy looking than what you've got going on.

Looks more like wind or abrasion damage if the fronds are not used to it. 

Might also be root rot or something bacterial? 

Not sure though, really just my best guesses at this point.

Darn k yeah the wind here has been really bad - hope it’s just that. Lots of strings hanging off from it too 

 

thanks for the reply

Edited June 3, 2020 by Noob2palms

[Noob2palms]

any chance someone knows if this is bud Rott or something that neem oil or horticulture oil could help with? 
i am scared to try because it says don’t spray on a weak plant on the label 

[Funkthulhu]

I'm in Nebraska, so. . . yeah.  To me, that's what some of my palms look like a couple weeks or a month after a hail storm.  Some sort of impact damage.  Redonkulous wind as said above?

As far as neem oil or whatnot, I have had a lot of luck with a spray bottle that has 20 to 1 ratio of dawn dish soap to water.  It busts up surface tension enough to drown mites, but the palm DGAF about that.

If it's a fungal infection, good luck.  I'm 0 for 1 on that fight.

[Noob2palms]

4 hours ago, Funkthulhu said:

I'm in Nebraska, so. . . yeah.  To me, that's what some of my palms look like a couple weeks or a month after a hail storm.  Some sort of impact damage.  Redonkulous wind as said above?

As far as neem oil or whatnot, I have had a lot of luck with a spray bottle that has 20 to 1 ratio of dawn dish soap to water.  It busts up surface tension enough to drown mites, but the palm DGAF about that.

If it's a fungal infection, good luck.  I'm 0 for 1 on that fight.

Thanks for the advice! Do you think a brown spear (mostly green still) will still open? 

[Noob2palms]

Is this a fungus? I asked a while ago and was told it was normal and to whipe it off.. but it comes back and now seems to be on my bottle palm too.. 

seems to be a lot of this stuff under the browning part of the trunk too. So bummed I have had these palms for 3 weeks and they look totally messed up 

[Rickybobby]

For me when I see this in Adonidia in pots it can be root issues becareful with drainage and watering 

[Noob2palms]

12 minutes ago, Rasta Rob said:

For me when I see this in Adonidia in pots it can be root issues becareful with drainage and watering 

Apppreciate the insight, it has rained a lot maybe I will let them dry out for a week or so 

[Merlyn]

The white stuff on the stems is called "tomentum."  It's basically tiny little waxy hairs that help prevent the new fronds from sticking to the old ones as it grows.  If you look at it under a microscope or jeweler's loupe you'll see the tiny hairs and white waxy stuff.  That's normal.  Some palms have more than others.  The waxy coating may wear off after a while with normal rain or being brushed by leaves, etc.  Here's the trunks of my Adonidia up front:

And here's the leaves with some spotting from winter rain, wind and cold.  We only hit ~33F for 2 days this winter, so the oldest leaves like this one still look pretty good.

[Noob2palms]

2 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

The white stuff on the stems is called "tomentum."  It's basically tiny little waxy hairs that help prevent the new fronds from sticking to the old ones as it grows.  If you look at it under a microscope or jeweler's loupe you'll see the tiny hairs and white waxy stuff.  That's normal.  Some palms have more than others.  The waxy coating may wear off after a while with normal rain or being brushed by leaves, etc.  Here's the trunks of my Adonidia up front:

And here's the leaves with some spotting from winter rain, wind and cold.  We only hit ~33F for 2 days this winter, so the oldest leaves like this one still look pretty good.

Thanks so much!

Edited June 5, 2020 by Noob2palms

[Merlyn]

The other leaf damage does look like a fungus to me.  Sunburn would be more distributed, and you'd see a general yellowing on the top of the leaves.  It's possible it is water stress from either underwatering or overwatering.  Too much water can lead to root rot.  If the roots are rotten then it can "look" like it is dehydrated, but the real problem is that it can't take up enough water from the roots.  It could also be physical damage from either high wind or while you were transporting it.  The brown spots could just be "bruises" from transport and repotting.

The brown on the new spear and most recently opened leaf dow make me think fungus, though.  Try pouring some regular household strength hydrogen peroxide down the trunk.  If it fizzes up then you've got a crown rot problem.  A systemic fungicide like Banrot (Thiophanate-Methyl + Etridiazole) and regular hydrogen peroxide pours should help if that's the case.

If you've only had it a few weeks I'd go talk to the nursery about it and take photos with you.

[Merlyn]

I forgot, here is a good general purpose document showing many common causes of palm damage. 

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/EP/EP26300.pdf

 

[Noob2palms]

1 hour ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I forgot, here is a good general purpose document showing many common causes of palm damage. 

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/EP/EP26300.pdf

 

Thank you really appreciate all the help! Will give it a shot and keep you posted. I’ll also let them dry out a bit - with so much rain the last 2 weeks that might contribute as well. 
 

As far as the nursery goes, I stopped by there once, unfortunately they don’t seem to know too much about them bc they just get palms from Florida and they sell out in 2 days. They told me to water (Totally drench them twice a day) all summer no matter what. I didn’t do that tho bc its was obvious that was too much when the soil was still wet.  Have been using a moisture meter and inspecting soil with finger until I get a feel for it. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Noob2palms

[Merlyn]

Definitely make sure your pot has good drain holes and doesn't sit in a tray.  There are a few palms that like growing in swamps (Licuala Grandis is one) but most prefer to be on the dry side.  My potted palms are all in a mix of about 50% generic topsoil, 25% perlite and 25% coarse grit (I'm using Sakrete Paver Base right now).  I only alter this a bit for palms that want to be super dry or wet.  There's a great thread on the "Potted Palms" section with everyone's favorite mix.  Since you are in NY you may want a different mix than I do in swampy FL.  There's probably more info here than you would ever want to read... 

 

[Noob2palms]

45 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Definitely make sure your pot has good drain holes and doesn't sit in a tray.  There are a few palms that like growing in swamps (Licuala Grandis is one) but most prefer to be on the dry side.  My potted palms are all in a mix of about 50% generic topsoil, 25% perlite and 25% coarse grit (I'm using Sakrete Paver Base right now).  I only alter this a bit for palms that want to be super dry or wet.  There's a great thread on the "Potted Palms" section with everyone's favorite mix.  Since you are in NY you may want a different mix than I do in swampy FL.  There's probably more info here than you would ever want to read... 

 

Perfect! Thanks so much 

[Noob2palms]

On 6/5/2020 at 7:08 PM, Merlyn2220 said:

The other leaf damage does look like a fungus to me.  Sunburn would be more distributed, and you'd see a general yellowing on the top of the leaves.  It's possible it is water stress from either underwatering or overwatering.  Too much water can lead to root rot.  If the roots are rotten then it can "look" like it is dehydrated, but the real problem is that it can't take up enough water from the roots.  It could also be physical damage from either high wind or while you were transporting it.  The brown spots could just be "bruises" from transport and repotting.

The brown on the new spear and most recently opened leaf dow make me think fungus, though.  Try pouring some regular household strength hydrogen peroxide down the trunk.  If it fizzes up then you've got a crown rot problem.  A systemic fungicide like Banrot (Thiophanate-Methyl + Etridiazole) and regular hydrogen peroxide pours should help if that's the case.

If you've only had it a few weeks I'd go talk to the nursery about it and take photos with you.

Quick update and thanks again for your help! I did the hydrogen peroxide trick and it fizzed a lot.. then decided to cut into the pot to see what’s going on.. filled with white fungus! 

I ended up going back to the nursery again and they are replacing my palms for free because I barely had them  

My bottle palm fizzed a little bit too but with no evidence of fungus in the pot... do you recommend I repot just to be safe? Also, can I pour diluted hydrogen peroxide into the soil when watering? Would that help if their is minor rot? If not, is there another broad spectrum fungicide you can recommend? Banrot seems to be expensive and hard to find around here 
 

I don’t want to stress the tree more than necessary because it does look healthy but it fizzes some when applied to trunk 
 

thanks!

Edited June 7, 2020 by Noob2palms

[Beachpalm]

Word of advice I brought a xmas palm up to Philadelphia area last july from Ft Myers fl .   It did great outside.  I would punch holes in an empty milk jug and let them slow drain into the pot all day.  It did great.   Now I have a 20 plant drip system and its super easy.

Once I brought the palm indoors to my sunroom.  I made the mistake of over watering it, and had root rot eventually, it died this February.  When you bring it indoors dont over water, but also keep air moist.  My sunroom had plenty of fishtanks and palms to help with moisture so no need for a humidifier.   

[Noob2palms]

1 hour ago, Beachpalm said:

Word of advice I brought a xmas palm up to Philadelphia area last july from Ft Myers fl .   It did great outside.  I would punch holes in an empty milk jug and let them slow drain into the pot all day.  It did great.   Now I have a 20 plant drip system and its super easy.

Once I brought the palm indoors to my sunroom.  I made the mistake of over watering it, and had root rot eventually, it died this February.  When you bring it indoors dont over water, but also keep air moist.  My sunroom had plenty of fishtanks and palms to help with moisture so no need for a humidifier.   

Awesome suggestions thanks! How many milk jugs did u use and what did u punch the holes with? 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Noob2palms

[Beachpalm]

I think i just used a razor knife and cut 1 centimeter  slits in the top where the cap is.   Sat it upside down in the dirt and end of day it was empty.

2 but it was bigger.

 

Yours I would do 1.

 

 

 

[Noob2palms]

51 minutes ago, Beachpalm said:

I think i just used a razor knife and cut 1 centimeter  slits in the top where the cap is.   Sat it upside down in the dirt and end of day it was empty.

2 but it was bigger.

 

Yours I would do 1.

 

 

 

Sweet thanks! 

[oasis371]

Christmas Palm is not an easy palm in my opinion.  I have between 20-25 different species of palms in Zone 7/N.J.. (All are grown indoor/outdoor, so they get summered outside (March/May-October/December depending on their cold hardiness).  I have tried Adonidia numerous times..., I have had better luck with coconut palms! (I even somehow manage to keep a Majesty Palm alive for going on two years.)  Christmas Palms are sensitive regarding watering practices, I think in my own case, I let them get too dry (I don't think they have such good drought tolerance.) I might be tempted to try yet again, but there are so many other palms that seem to have fewer issues. Wish I could be more helpful but I have basicaily given up on this species.

[Noob2palms]

2 hours ago, oasis371 said:

Christmas Palm is not an easy palm in my opinion.  I have between 20-25 different species of palms in Zone 7/N.J.. (All are grown indoor/outdoor, so they get summered outside (March/May-October/December depending on their cold hardiness).  I have tried Adonidia numerous times..., I have had better luck with coconut palms! (I even somehow manage to keep a Majesty Palm alive for going on two years.)  Christmas Palms are sensitive regarding watering practices, I think in my own case, I let them get too dry (I don't think they have such good drought tolerance.) I might be tempted to try yet again, but there are so many other palms that seem to have fewer issues. Wish I could be more helpful but I have basicaily given up on this species.

Totally get that.. I think next year I’ll get two windmills and maybe a coconut if they don’t make it through the winter inside 

[Merlyn]

10 hours ago, Noob2palms said:

Quick update and thanks again for your help! I did the hydrogen peroxide trick and it fizzed a lot.. then decided to cut into the pot to see what’s going on.. filled with white fungus! 

I ended up going back to the nursery again and they are replacing my palms for free because I barely had them  

My bottle palm fizzed a little bit too but with no evidence of fungus in the pot... do you recommend I repot just to be safe? Also, can I pour diluted hydrogen peroxide into the soil when watering? Would that help if their is minor rot? If not, is there another broad spectrum fungicide you can recommend? Banrot seems to be expensive and hard to find around here

Hydrogen peroxide pours into the trunk are a pretty common suggestion here for diagnosing fungal problems.  I am not sure about putting it into the soil in quantity, but doing a pour into the crown every 2 weeks seems to be a common recommendation for curing surface kinds of bacterial/fungal problems.  It's not systemic like Banrot.  Banrot is cheap per dose if you get a big package of wettable powder like the 2lb bag of 40WP.  But there's no reason to buy something like that unless you have a LOT of palms with possible fungal problems.  And there are other options.  In soil a Copper Sulfate type is a good soil drench.  Something like this stuff might help.  I don't have any potted palms except in my seedling area, so I'm not sure about best solutions for in a pot:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southern-Ag-16-oz-Liquid-Copper-Fungicide-100048940/100599149

Daconil is another recommended fungicide, I know people use it for seedlings a lot.  Bayer Advanced uses Tebuconazole systemic fungicide, that could be another option.

Hopefully someone else can chime in here on repotting or replacing the soil.  Almost all of my palms are in the ground, so I have limited experience in pots.

[Noob2palms]

2 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Hydrogen peroxide pours into the trunk are a pretty common suggestion here for diagnosing fungal problems.  I am not sure about putting it into the soil in quantity, but doing a pour into the crown every 2 weeks seems to be a common recommendation for curing surface kinds of bacterial/fungal problems.  It's not systemic like Banrot.  Banrot is cheap per dose if you get a big package of wettable powder like the 2lb bag of 40WP.  But there's no reason to buy something like that unless you have a LOT of palms with possible fungal problems.  And there are other options.  In soil a Copper Sulfate type is a good soil drench.  Something like this stuff might help.  I don't have any potted palms except in my seedling area, so I'm not sure about best solutions for in a pot:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southern-Ag-16-oz-Liquid-Copper-Fungicide-100048940/100599149

Daconil is another recommended fungicide, I know people use it for seedlings a lot.  Bayer Advanced uses Tebuconazole systemic fungicide, that could be another option.

Hopefully someone else can chime in here on repotting or replacing the soil.  Almost all of my palms are in the ground, so I have limited experience in pots.

Can’t thank you enough!