Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

In the ground vs in a pot.... it's a race!


Makaisland Palms

Recommended Posts

So I'm just wondering what everyone thinks about transferring a palm from a pot to the ground in the spring, and then back into a pot for winter.    The question is, do the benefits of getting better growing conditions in the ground, outweigh the drawbacks of being disturbed so much (as opposed to just staying in a pot permanently).   Obviously some conditions apply here;

1) clearly, if I had the climate for these plants to just stay in the ground year 'round I certainly would, so assume this is in a cooler climate, with 6 to 8 months of possible outdoor growing time.

2) some palms just do not like to be disturbed, so I won't be trying this with any of those picky sorts.  ie. Johanistejmania

I am testing this out this season with matching size specimens of 

P. Macarthurii

S. Minor

C. Radicalis (a la @Dooms Dave!)

Strelizia Nikolai

*possibly with A. Catechu as well, not sure if I want to risk one of my few!

Let me know what you think!  

Jake

Edited by Makaisland Palms
added my name... for the Aussies... hehe jk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, forgot to add the obvious "cool" weather options

T. Fortunii

W. Robusta/Filla/whatever hybrid I might have collected

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jake,

   Are you going to plant them, or just bury the pot in the ground for the season, then pull it out pot, palm and all?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I've planted them, without the pot.   At the time I figured it wouldn't make sense to keep them in the pot, because i'd just have to cut off any roots that grew out the bottom anyways.... but maybe I should have kept them in the pots.... I have some potted P. Macs to spare so maybe I'll toss a few in the ground with pots on still and expand the experiment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Smaller palms may do better at this strategy than larger ones but long term it is a bad idea.  It also might depend on how large of a root ball you are digging up, the ability of your dirt to hold a large rootball (ie clay is better for this).  But all being said this can be done just palms disturbed in this way will take 1 year to reestablish and you may eventually cause their decline.  But palms grown exclusively in ground vs a pot will grow at a much faster pace because of the nutrients/room/no fast soil temp swings.

  • Like 1

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once you plant a Sabal minor you should leave it in the ground. If try to dig it up later you will damage the growing point and kill the palm. The same also applies to trunking Sabals with less than 4' of clear trunk. To plant then repot palms year after year makes little sense to me and may likely kill them after multiple repetitions.

  • Like 1

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Meg and Allen, I agree.   This is most likely a doomed experiment, but I'm ok with that!   I also should have also mentioned that these are just 3-6 leaf seedling size, so when I do dig them up, it will be easy to get the root ball as a whole, and mostly intact., at least for the first few years I try this. (unless things go wildly well and they grow so big that I can't pick them up, that would be amazing!)   And as for the sabal minors,  and Trachys , I'd love to just plant them directly and permanently, but we're only renting so I would need to get permission from a whole committee of people at the yearly meeting (yawn...)

 

Thanks anyways for the input,   Ill update at end of season to see if there were any positive/negative outcomes.

 

jake

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For what it's worth I did a similar experiment with a cold hardy palm for my area (Trithrinax acanthacoma).  I had several seedlings and planted the largest one in the ground 2 years ago and left the others in containers.  (Don't you just love my fancy container? :wacko:).  At least for this species planting in the ground did not seem to provide any advantage for the 2-3 strap-leaf seedling and it wasn't dug up multiple times.

IMG_20200429_152748.jpg

IMG_20200429_152627.jpg

  • Like 2

Jon Sunder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting.  Even when it was in the ground permanently.   Maybe the real truth is that there was some magic in that Louisiana Kitchen cup!   Got more?!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Makaisland Palms said:

Interesting.  Even when it was in the ground permanently.   Maybe the real truth is that there was some magic in that Louisiana Kitchen cup!   Got more?!

:P  I do!  Some seedlings seem to prefer a deeper pot.  The "experiment" was not very scientific.  The one planted out is in full sun from 10:00 a.m. until dusk while the container plants are behind shade cloth under a covered patio so the container seedlings have longer and wider leaves.  With mild winters the past two years the containers remained outside the entire time as well.  Both seedlings have the same number of strap leaves and both appear to be going palmate soon!

Jon Sunder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought two 1 gallon trachies at a big box store, planted one in the ground and planted the other in a 7 gallon pot.  The potted trachy was moved to a southern exposure location in the fall and winter where it got all day sun, and brought into an unheated garage during sub 15 degree nights and during ice storms.  This one did better than the one planted in the ground, which only got sun from 8:30 til 2pm.   The potted one is taller and has a thicker trunk.  Of course with only one plant in each treatment the results could be due to plant variation. (I am going to finally plant the potted trachy this year).

I do keep smaller palms in their pots to give them better winter conditions,  This winter I had two needles Three sabals plus a couple of large sabals that I bought at the end of the summer.  The sabals in strap leaf stage will get moved to much bigger pots and spend next winter with better growing conditions

I usually dig a whole the size of the pot and place the pot in the hole during the summer.  I put landscape fabric over the drain holes in the bottom of the pot to keep palm from rooting through the holes.

Oh and I agree with the advice of never digging up a sabal.  Once you plant it, it's there for good.

 

Zone 7a, Maryland

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must admit, the idea of planting a palm is one I would do as a permanent placement and digging it up again would be only be done as a last resort. Quite apart from all that it seems too much hassle. I'm not interested in experimenting with palms, or any other plant for that matter - just to try to look after them and give them a good home.   Due to circumstances and the location of where I am based, I do not have the option of planting palms and they are all potted. However, the advantage is being able to move them around according to the seasons to get the best out of them and for their protection if required. Also, I am thinking of searching for a place in Portugal (when the pandemic is finally over) and the intention would be to take them with me to plant as part of a new Mediterranean garden. So I won't be planting them over here on that basis either.

There are a couple of CIDP however which are way too big and are in 350 litre pots (approx. 76 gallons) and a third one which soon will have to be moved into a pot that will make it too big to move again. Unless I can arrange for a big pick-up truck to come from somewhere and help!   I will probably have to try and find a new home for these extra large CIDP if/when I eventually move - but nothing is going anywhere fast for a while yet it seems.

Edited by petiole10
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Rasta Rob said:

I dig a hole and place the whole palm and pot in the ground up to the rim I put some rocks underneath for drainage works well and still gives the look!

FullSizeRender.mov

10E4F08A-C138-4BBA-ACFA-992C9D179329.jpeg

This planting/potted method is best for these larger type palms. Just be careful of them rooting to the ground thru pot holes and being hard to remove.  What I do since I am so borderline is have a mixture of planted palms that are pretty bulletproof (like Sabal minor and needle palms for me),  then palms that I plant out knowing they 'might' die (Trachy for instance) , then I have backup potted palms and palms too tropical to even think about planting.  I tried to look up Vienna's temperature history and it looks like you need to stick with similar palms to me if you want to plant out.  But I am not familiar with your exact climate there.

Edited by Allen

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Fusca said:

:P  I do!  Some seedlings seem to prefer a deeper pot.  The "experiment" was not very scientific.  The one planted out is in full sun from 10:00 a.m. until dusk while the container plants are behind shade cloth under a covered patio so the container seedlings have longer and wider leaves.  With mild winters the past two years the containers remained outside the entire time as well.  Both seedlings have the same number of strap leaves and both appear to be going palmate soon!

@Fusca   Can you share that Popeyes Palm magic with the rest of us?   I had thought about doing this with my plumeria:  See the picture below.   I guess it would work if you had a limited number.   They do nursery plant production using this method as well.

 

31DQMA41FGL._AC_.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/30/2020 at 2:57 PM, Allen said:

This planting/potted method is best for these larger type palms. Just be careful of them rooting to the ground thru pot holes and being hard to remove.  What I do since I am so borderline is have a mixture of planted palms that are pretty bulletproof (like Sabal minor and needle palms for me),  then palms that I plant out knowing they 'might' die (Trachy for instance) , then I have backup potted palms and palms too tropical to even think about planting.  I tried to look up Vienna's temperature history and it looks like you need to stick with similar palms to me if you want to plant out.  But I am not familiar with your exact climate there.

So I took a look at your weather as well, (only fair) and its actually striking how similar our past 5 months have been!   I think the biggest difference might be (and I'm actually just guessing on this one) that I picture your area being a lot more humid in the summer months, whereas if feels like a rather dry heat here for summer.   but otherwise, length and cold extremes seem to be very close.   so the question is, what's the biggest zone pusher you have kept in the ground so far?  These are by no means wild and crazy, but I'm going to try guerrilla planting some C. Humilis, P. Canariensis and even Washingtonia this year.   We have trachycarpus F. in ground around here, but they're usually fully bundled up with heat cords for winter, (which I don't think they truly need) but I understand why people do it, instead of risking losing a 10 ft. palm to a freak sudden temperature drop.   I have so many of these seedlings so I have been guerrilla planting them around the neighbourhood.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/30/2020 at 7:44 PM, jimmyt said:

@Fusca   Can you share that Popeyes Palm magic with the rest of us?   I had thought about doing this with my plumeria:  See the picture below.   I guess it would work if you had a limited number.   They do nursery plant production using this method as well.

 

31DQMA41FGL._AC_.jpg

I think I'm going to try a few of my plumeria this way as well, if nothing other than to just keep them from toppling over all the time.   I've got about 50 plumeria plants now,  which was really easy to handle when they were all 5 inches tall, but some of them are 4-5 feet now, and its getting out of hand.   I'd love to start selling them locally here, but I can't bring myself to do it until I get them all to bloom (so I can keep the best ones!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice!  Usually the warm/hot temps induce mine to bloom.  Sometimes witholding water also helps to induce blooms.  They can handle the lack of water ok.   I have some that are tall and in 90 gal nursery pots so it is difficult just moving them around.  My climate is to temperate to plant them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...