Hedyscepe canterburyana

[Tracy]

On 4/10/2020 at 6:46 PM, akamu said:

I totally agree the one's I've seen growing on the coast grow much easier.  I am 8 Miles Inland so I think I'm right on the edge. Bill Sanford made the quote years ago the "hedyscepe complex" if I remember right he was  referring to some grow good and some languish so try try again until one makes it.

Here are the 50% that survived.  Proximity to the coast making it easier?  Didn't work for me, the survivors are about 3/4 of a mile as the crow flies from the ocean or just over a kilometer.  The ones I killed are about 500 meters from the water's edge.  Maybe after reading some of the posts my failure was not enough water in the second garden where the sandy soil drains quickly.  The survivors are in the heavy clay soil.  Both are at least 10 years in the ground now.  Heck the Cycas thouarsii has outpaced the one.  I planted the Cycas as a 2" caudex in the shade of the Hedyscepe and now the roles are reversed.

[Darold Petty]

It is not all 'sweetness and light' when these are happy campers.  I recently lost my largest and best one to a fungal disease that clogged up the xylem  cells that transport water upwards.  After the healthy fronds collapsed from lack of turgor I had to remove the palm.  It had 11.5 feet of true trunk below the crownshaft and I grew it from a 1-gallon over 37 years.   I have become accustomed to palm death, but this really hurt.   

  It had a lot of almost mature seeds, so I cannot fulfill my offer to various Palmtalkers for seed.  I do have two seed offspring plants and will likely plant one of these in a year or two after the soil conditions calm down, and the old roots decompose. 

  After this bummer of a post here are two more positive images,  

 

[The Gerg]

44 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

It is not all 'sweetness and light' when these are happy campers.  I recently lost my largest and best one to a fungal disease that clogged up the xylem  cells that transport water upwards.  After the healthy fronds collapsed from lack of turgor I had to remove the palm.  It had 11.5 feet of true trunk below the crownshaft and I grew it from a 1-gallon over 37 years.   I have become accustomed to palm death, but this really hurt.   

  It had a lot of almost mature seeds, so I cannot fulfill my offer to various Palmtalkers for seed.  I do have two seed offspring plants and will likely plant one of these in a year or two after the soil conditions calm down, and the old roots decompose. 

  After this bummer of a post here are two more positive images,  

 

Sorry to hear this Darold.  That has got to be so depressing.  I have had plenty of palms die on me but I have not yet had one of my mature beloved palms die on me. (Knock on wood). I have several that will break my heart when it happens, or if it happens before I drop dead.  At least you have it’s offspring to replace it.

[joe_OC]

Congratulations, Darold!

[joe_OC]

Here is an update of my largest with a new frond:

It has really started to speed up.

 

[Tyrone]

14 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

It is not all 'sweetness and light' when these are happy campers.  I recently lost my largest and best one to a fungal disease that clogged up the xylem  cells that transport water upwards.  After the healthy fronds collapsed from lack of turgor I had to remove the palm.  It had 11.5 feet of true trunk below the crownshaft and I grew it from a 1-gallon over 37 years.   I have become accustomed to palm death, but this really hurt.   

  It had a lot of almost mature seeds, so I cannot fulfill my offer to various Palmtalkers for seed.  I do have two seed offspring plants and will likely plant one of these in a year or two after the soil conditions calm down, and the old roots decompose. 

  After this bummer of a post here are two more positive images,  

 

Damn that's a huge loss Darold. I would be mourning for ages after losing that one. Was that the one I got seeds from?

[Darold Petty]

Yes, Tyrone, that was the seed parent.  I do have immature seeds on a second Hedyscepe and the one in my front yard should start to flower soon.   

[Tyrone]

8 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Yes, Tyrone, that was the seed parent.  I do have immature seeds on a second Hedyscepe and the one in my front yard should start to flower soon.   

That is real sad. On the positive side it’s life was not in vain. Some of its seedlings will be planted here in time and hopefully keep producing Hedyscepe seed in the future.

[joe_OC]

4 hours ago, Tyrone said:

That is real sad. On the positive side it’s life was not in vain. Some of its seedlings will be planted here in time and hopefully keep producing Hedyscepe seed in the future.

That would be devastating to me if I had lost mine.  I was trying to look at the "cup half full" perspective.  My condolences, Darold.

[Darold Petty]

Thanks Joe, keep posting images of your Lepi !!!!

I do have a good crop of immature seed on my #2 Hedyscepe. 

[joe_OC]

Two of my Hedyscepe decided to open new fronds at the same time.  I really love this species!

 

 

[Billeb]

On 7/31/2020 at 7:18 PM, joe_OC said:

Two of my Hedyscepe decided to open new fronds at the same time.  I really love this species!

 

 

Joe, 

they look great. Just picked up a Hedycepe from Joe at Discovery Palms. Any advice on sun exposure and watering requirements in Hunt. Beach would be great. I’ve heard horror stories of bad placement and caring for these things and it’d be fantastic if I don’t lose this to a stupid decision that could be avoided. You seem to have a pretty good stronghold on these things.  I’ve added a couple pics of the Hedycepe and my Encephalartos Lehmannii Kirkwood for the Cycad lovers!! 

[richnorm]

Easy grow here until they start flowering. The extra stress is when the munted spears begin! 

[Tyrone]

11 hours ago, richnorm said:

Easy grow here until they start flowering. The extra stress is when the munted spears begin! 

When they do that, is it predominantly shade grown or sun grown ones that mount up the spears? Or is there absolutely no correlation?

[richnorm]

10 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

When they do that, is it predominantly shade grown or sun grown ones that mount up the spears? Or is there absolutely no correlation?

By munted (Kiwi slang) I mean deformed. Usually undersized too.   I have not seen this in shade grown plants but cannot remember seeing this species flower in shade either.  Here's a photo of 3. The one in the middle is largest and flowered first and set seed before going into a serious funk. I would have cut it out but saved it for the seed. Two years later it started to produce tiny leaves and appears to be recovering now albeit slowly. The second largest set fruit last year and is now throwing a small spear. I think it is heading along the same path. The smallest palm has not flowered and is fine apart from a little stress from the dry summer.

[Tyrone]

5 minutes ago, richnorm said:

By munted (Kiwi slang) I mean deformed. Usually undersized too.   I have not seen this in shade grown plants but cannot remember seeing this species flower in shade either.  Here's a photo of 3. The one in the middle is largest and flowered first and set seed before going into a serious funk. I would have cut it out but saved it for the seed. Two years later it started to produce tiny leaves and appears to be recovering now albeit slowly. The second largest set fruit last year and is now throwing a small spear. I think it is heading along the same path. The smallest palm has not flowered and is fine apart from a little stress from the dry summer.

Could it be a nutrient deficiency that only shows up after setting fruit. It takes a lot for a plant to produce viable seed. It would be interesting to see what would happen to a munted specimen with a good few doses of complete trace elements, whether it would clear up and come good.

[PalmCode]

1 hour ago, richnorm said:

By munted (Kiwi slang) I mean deformed. Usually undersized too.   I have not seen this in shade grown plants but cannot remember seeing this species flower in shade either.  Here's a photo of 3. The one in the middle is largest and flowered first and set seed before going into a serious funk. I would have cut it out but saved it for the seed. Two years later it started to produce tiny leaves and appears to be recovering now albeit slowly. The second largest set fruit last year and is now throwing a small spear. I think it is heading along the same path. The smallest palm has not flowered and is fine apart from a little stress from the dry summer.

Not good,  I'd guess to say, that raised volcanic rock garden area they're in might affecting the soil retention and nutrient levels.  Hope they recover.

[richnorm]

1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

Could it be a nutrient deficiency that only shows up after setting fruit. It takes a lot for a plant to produce viable seed. It would be interesting to see what would happen to a munted specimen with a good few doses of complete trace elements, whether it would clear up and come good.

It's a known issue here, not just me.   Other exotic species seem to demonstrate this behaviour too.  The disfiguration, I am told, is caused by rot in the crown. Some have used chemicals in the crown but that's not a path I care to tread.  I tend to use chemical fert very sparingly (mostly just potted palms) but will cut of spathes to see if this helps.

 

[richnorm]

2 minutes ago, PalmCode said:

Not good,  I'd guess to say, that raised volcanic rock garden area they're in might affecting the soil retention and nutrient levels.  Hope they recover.

Thanks for the input.  Hard to tell from the photo but they are planted in native clay at the bottom of a bank.  The stones just tidied up the edge a bit. But I will chuck some blood and bone at them. The grass there and citrus grow well with no watering or fert.  The yellowing is summer bleaching from the sun/UV. They look much better in spring.

[tim_brissy_13]

15 hours ago, richnorm said:

Thanks for the input.  Hard to tell from the photo but they are planted in native clay at the bottom of a bank.  The stones just tidied up the edge a bit. But I will chuck some blood and bone at them. The grass there and citrus grow well with no watering or fert.  The yellowing is summer bleaching from the sun/UV. They look much better in spring.

Rich - I noticed this phenomenon in a Hedyscepe at Landsendt. I didn’t realise it was widespread in your area. 
 

There was a beautiful Hedyscepe at Melbourne Botanic Gardens that showed something similar after maturity, but I always assumed it was a combination of dry/sun/heat that did it (not sure lack of water or humidity would be an issue at all in your area). It eventually succumbed. It was the only one in the gardens in full sun, the other 2 in shade are unaffected and still in good health. 

[Tyrone]

1 hour ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Rich - I noticed this phenomenon in a Hedyscepe at Landsendt. I didn’t realise it was widespread in your area. 
 

There was a beautiful Hedyscepe at Melbourne Botanic Gardens that showed something similar after maturity, but I always assumed it was a combination of dry/sun/heat that did it (not sure lack of water or humidity would be an issue at all in your area). It eventually succumbed. It was the only one in the gardens in full sun, the other 2 in shade are unaffected and still in good health. 

It’s probably a heat thing then. Even on LHI at the nursery which is at low elevation their one under shadecloth eventually died as far as I know. At the lower elevation (450m asl) on Mt Gower all the Hedyscepe are under canopy. The peak summer temp at that level probably wouldn’t be more than 25C. At the top they emerge into full sun but at that level the max wouldn’t likely ever go above 22C in the shade. Given a bit of tolerance that most plants have I reckon if you get over 30C in summer at any point in any year, they will start to succumb in full sun. So even NZ is too hot if that’s the case. 

[richnorm]

Even Nikau in exposed sites get the yellowy outer leaves and crispy patches in these parts after summer.    We may not be very hot but the UV is a killer.  My plants suffered more than usual due to a watering ban which has been in force over two dry (for us) summers.

[tim_brissy_13]

2 hours ago, richnorm said:

Even Nikau in exposed sites get the yellowy outer leaves and crispy patches in these parts after summer.    We may not be very hot but the UV is a killer.  My plants suffered more than usual due to a watering ban which has been in force over two dry (for us) summers.

Good point, I think I once read that South East Aus and NZ has the thinnest ozone layer in the world, so given only full sun specimens are affected I think you might be onto something. Strange that the full sun Hedyscepe in Melbourne was looking so perfect for years until maturity, so perhaps they need additional water when flowering also. 

[Tyrone]

I'm going to grow my Hedyscepe in part shade to full shade then. Maybe an area that gets full winter sun would be perfect and then summer shade or at least dappled sun through summer.

[PalmCode]

23 hours ago, richnorm said:

Thanks for the input.  Hard to tell from the photo but they are planted in native clay at the bottom of a bank.  The stones just tidied up the edge a bit. But I will chuck some blood and bone at them. The grass there and citrus grow well with no watering or fert.  The yellowing is summer bleaching from the sun/UV. They look much better in spring.

Definitely throw some blood and bone at them. Have you used any liquid seaweed fertilizer around them? Also annually organic mulching helps a ton.

The two smaller ones look great.  I recall seeing  a hedy growing at a shopping centre car park that is about the size as yours seeding, doing the exact same thing more or less. It looked awful. I'll  take a photo next time im out that way.

It's got to be the extensive full summer heat and uv thats causing this deformity. The droughts don't help either.

My tallest at 1.8 meters, was also looking much better before the January/ febuary sun burned it. Also have two more growing  in pots in the shade now. 

[richnorm]

16 minutes ago, PalmCode said:

Definitely throw some blood and bone at them. Have you used any liquid seaweed fertilizer around them? Also annually organic mulching helps a ton.

The two smaller ones look great.  I recall seeing  a hedy growing at a shopping centre car park that is about the size as yours seeding, doing the exact same thing more or less. It looked awful. I'll  take a photo next time im out that way.

It's got to be the extensive full summer heat and uv thats causing this deformity. The droughts don't help either.

My tallest at 1.8 meters, was also looking much better before the January/ febuary sun burned it. Also have two more growing  in pots in the shade now. 

A very familiar look in late summer!  But they come right over winter and spring.  I mulch a lot.  Nothing organic leaves my garden and I have a huge stand of bamboo which hosts hundreds of birds each night. The stuff they drop ends up on my drive and I put it around my palms.   

[joe_OC]

On 3/30/2021 at 10:13 AM, Billeb said:

Joe, 

they look great. Just picked up a Hedycepe from Joe at Discovery Palms. Any advice on sun exposure and watering requirements in Hunt. Beach would be great. I’ve heard horror stories of bad placement and caring for these things and it’d be fantastic if I don’t lose this to a stupid decision that could be avoided. You seem to have a pretty good stronghold on these things.  I’ve added a couple pics of the Hedycepe and my Encephalartos Lehmannii Kirkwood for the Cycad lovers!! 

Hi Bill,

Congrats, on the Hedyscepe from Joe.  He's a great guy/grower.  I've grown mine in a location that provides morning sun and afternoon protection.  I planted one in deep shade and it is substantially slower.  This could be attributed to the shade and/or genetics.  You are welcome to come over to check them out for yourself.  I will say, wherever you plant them,  they enjoy to be watered.  

[Billeb]

9 hours ago, joe_OC said:

Hi Bill,

Congrats, on the Hedyscepe from Joe.  He's a great guy/grower.  I've grown mine in a location that provides morning sun and afternoon protection.  I planted one in deep shade and it is substantially slower.  This could be attributed to the shade and/or genetics.  You are welcome to come over to check them out for yourself.  I will say, wherever you plant them,  they enjoy to be watered.  

Joe, it’s Dale. I’ll probably take you up on that offer. Front yard is all dirt but plan on building the planters within the month or so. Will def let you know. Thanks. 
 

btw...Yes, Joe @ Discovery is a good dude with lots of cool stuff. Bought a 15G Chatham Island Oceana and 5G Dypsis Lanceolata also. Excited to get these things in the ground

[sipalms]

Spotted this big Hedyscepe in Auckland last week. This is the largest I've ever seen in New Zealand.

[Tyrone]

23 hours ago, sipalms said:

Spotted this big Hedyscepe in Auckland last week. This is the largest I've ever seen in New Zealand.

Flowering like mad too. 

[Briank]

On 4/10/2020 at 10:54 PM, joe_OC said:

Here's a better picture to show the difference in growth rates:  Chambeyronia on the left and Hedyscepe on the right.

I’ve planted 2 Double Flamethrowere this yr.  1 hookeri double 1 Macrocarpa.   Only 5 GA size but can’t wait till they look like yours. Cool 

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Hedyscepe canterburyana is an easy grow for me in coastal Tasmania - I have 4 the biggest was grown from seed germinated in September 2009 and now has 3 rings of trunk it is exposed to full sun most of the day and my extreme temperature range is record Low -0.3 C (32 F )  high 38 C  ( 100f )  daytime temps are winter 50F (10C  ) - 63 F 17 C .  Humidity is usually above 50 % and located 600m from the water.

During the warmer months i irrigate for 40 m every 3 days. Use organic fertilizer and compost with a small amount of nutricote total in spring.

 

 

 

[JasonD]

On 4/13/2020 at 10:43 PM, Hilo Jason said:

Great photos everyone!  These are amazing palms. I have a couple small ones in pots here that I hope to plant out soon. Not much to look at yet so instead I’ll post a few habitat photos below. 

Must also note you caught blooming Dietes robinsoniana in that first shot!

[joe_OC]

Update on my Hedyscepe.  It now has 7 rings of trunk on it with lastest frond to open.  Can't wait until the others start to move.  

[Gary]

On 5/4/2021 at 4:43 PM, Tyrone said:

Flowering like mad too. 

there are a number round auckland from that era.That palm was a transplant from St Marys Bay years ago.I use toget seed off it pre 2000 before Natural Habitats brought it.Here is another in takapuna from same era.There are 2 in wraggs bush as well and still 1 in alberon park

[Gary]

here is st marys bay hedyscepe round 1998 as didnt have digital camera them days.Had to use 30ft ladder toget the seeds

[Briank]

Question.    I know the palms don’t take to much sun, and best for Coastal Climates.  I’m 4 miles off coast.  I planted a Big Double few yrs ago but have kept it under a big Built shade Tent with only Open in front.  Been about 3 yrs.  Havnt Taken it down yet.  Will post pics tomorrow.    Thinking about finally letting it have more Sun Exposure.  Just don’t want it getting burnt up. 

[Darold Petty]

Brian, you should remove the shade covering gradually, if this is not possible without damage to the fabric then wait until the winter solstice.

[Briank]

5 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Brian, you should remove the shade covering gradually, if this is not possible without damage to the fabric then wait until the winter solstice.

I have lifted the front park of cloth up more to let afternoon sun in more.   I think I’ll remove it this yr fully sometime.  The big Canary helps w shade but gets afternoon sun for 4-5 hours.  
 

was a 15 GA size when I put it in ground  

 

brian 

 

[Darold Petty]

They look great !