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Palm’s Throughout Destin Florida


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7 minutes ago, Estlander said:

In a city with similar climate and millions of people, of course you have more Queens. This is not a competition who has more Queens. Lol
Look at the size of Destin and it’s population compared to Houston. If we had thousands of them, they’d overnumber possibly even Sabals. 
And if you’re such a perfect climate for Queens, them why are they so hard to find compared to a similarly sized and populated Orlando?

Oh now we're comparing Houston to Orlando, well Houston metro is 3x size of Orlando metro.  Yeah, it's too bad we don't 3x the number of queen palms haha. I don't think anyone in this thread has expressed that Houston is the "perfect climate" for queens. Houston just happens to be about as far north as you will find them on the TX Gulf Coast and also the northernmost where you will find plenty of pre-2010 queens. 

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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3 minutes ago, Estlander said:

What kill date? There are several around where I am that have been there since 2006 or before. The first Queen in my picture series is on the streetview images from 2007. 
Hell, there is even a pre 2010 Queen in central Fort Walton Beach 8B. It does have some trunk damage, but otherwise looks beautiful. 
But, in the last 6 years many many new Queens have been planted everywhere. 
Besides, so WHAT if a couple of Queens die every now and then? Weaker ones need to be weeded out. 
How you forgotten the January 2018 freeze already, which killed many in your are and none here? Geeshhhh...

But every single queen palm streetview you posted from 2011 magically disappears in 2017 or 2019 streetview except for the first one which lacks a post 2014 updated streetview.  Doesn't say good things about the long term viability of queen palms in Destin if all of them or 95% of them were planted in the last 6 years. 

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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9 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

I’m completely missing your point about natives. California only has one native ( W. Filifera). Are you saying Destin has a more suitable climate for palms than San Diego? As far as which is warmer between Houston and Destin goes. It’s simple. We’ve shown the lows for the last 30 years in Houston. Not numbers we made up. Numbers from NOAA. Average low is 28f. Your turn. If yours is higher congratulations. If it’s not then it’s settled. If you’re not going to even look at the facts then why make baseless assertions. 

California is a very different climate and too far away. Houston is very close and similar climate, yet no native palms. It’s just a little extra to point out that as cold as you think coastal panhandle is, we natively have more palms species. 

Edited by Estlander
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7 minutes ago, Estlander said:

What kill date? There are several around where I am that have been there since 2006 or before. The first Queen in my picture series is on the streetview images from 2007. 
Hell, there is even a pre 2010 Queen in central Fort Walton Beach 8B. It does have some trunk damage, but otherwise looks beautiful. 
But, in the last 6 years many many new Queens have been planted everywhere. 
Besides, so WHAT if a couple of Queens die every now and then? Weaker ones need to be weeded out. 
How you forgotten the January 2018 freeze already, which killed many in your are and none here? Geeshhhh...

Yes. 2018 happened. Just like Florida has had polar vortex events. Everyone east of the Rockies can and has fallen victim to the polar vortex. Do you think it can’t happen to Destin? Also you keep talking about all the queens that died. What are you basing that on? 

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2 minutes ago, Estlander said:

California is a very different climate and too far away. Houston is very close and similar climate, yet no native palms. It’s just a little extra to point out that as cold as you think coastal panhandle is, we natively have more palms species. 

What are you talking about “as cold as you think coastal panhandle is”. Show me where I said it’s cold there. If you’re so certain that Destin is warmer, show us. Post the annual lows as we have. I can’t figure out why you haven’t done that. 

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4 minutes ago, Estlander said:

California is a very different climate and too far away. Houston is very close and similar climate, yet no native palms. It’s just a little extra to point out that as cold as you think coastal panhandle is, we natively have more palms species. 

There is no direct relationship between how warm a place is and the number of species of palms native to that place. 

Well, it looks we have beaten the dead horse to oblivion. I wish your garden and your efforts to push the envelope in the Florida Panhandle the best of luck. I hope we all see a long string of mild winters :)

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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3 minutes ago, Xenon said:

But every single queen palm streetview you posted from 2011 magically disappears in 2017 or 2019 streetview except for the first one which lacks a post 2014 updated streetview.  Doesn't say good things about the long term viability of queen palms in Destin if all of them or 95% of them were planted in the last 6 years. 

Enjoy your thousands of Queens, not to mention other palms that are almost nowhere to be seen in your magical palmy climate. 

Queens don’t survive all the freezes in Houston either. So WHAT exactly is your point? The fact is there ARE plenty of pre 2010 Queens here and EVEN in 8B Fort Walton. The fact IS that both places lose Queens from time to time. Its just a sad reality of Southeastern 9A. Deal with it !

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9 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

What are you talking about “as cold as you think coastal panhandle is”. Show me where I said it’s cold there. If you’re so certain that Destin is warmer, show us. Post the annual lows as we have. I can’t figure out why you haven’t done that. 

Haven’t you been reading to what I’ve been saying? I have mentioned several times that I don’t consider Destin to be warmer. I’ve been responding to Xenon’s deluded idea that Houston is so much warmer and how everything that we can successfully grow here are 8B palms etc. 

I’ve simply been trying to bring him down from his high horse. 
Not a single Queen, Bismarckia or Pygmy Date will live out its natural life cycle in either place. 

Edited by Estlander
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5 minutes ago, Estlander said:

Haven’t you been reading to what I’ve been saying? I have mentioned several times that I don’t consider Destin to be warmer. I’ve been responding to Xenon’s deluded idea that Houston is so much warmer and how everything that we can successfully grow here are 8B palms etc. 

I’ve simply been trying to bring him down from his high horse. 

Okay. But that comment I quoted was directed at me. The only point I’ve been trying to make is that not all of Houston saw teens in 2018 and that for most of Houston the mortality rate for queens was really low. They are harder to find on google maps because Houston is a huge spread out area. Most of Houston is older and established. Oaks rule the landscape and don’t leave a lot of room for palms. Because of that they are more sporadic. You keep mentioning League City, which is warmer than Hobby but not as warm as inside i610 or the bay front. It’s easier to find queens there because it’s a new area where homes are being built in large numbers and some builders like to use queens because they’re cheap. A lot of new home owners like to plant them for the same reasons. If you want to make your point with @Xenon you’ll have to do it with actual factual data. 
 

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11 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

Okay. But that comment I quoted was directed at me. The only point I’ve been trying to make is that not all of Houston saw teens in 2018 and that for most of Houston the mortality rate for queens was really low. They are harder to find on google maps because Houston is a huge spread out area. Most of Houston is older and established. Oaks rule the landscape and don’t leave a lot of room for palms. Because of that they are more sporadic. You keep mentioning League City, which is warmer than Hobby but not as warm as inside i610 or the bay front. It’s easier to find queens there because it’s a new area where homes are being built in large numbers and some builders like to use queens because they’re cheap. A lot of new home owners like to plant them for the same reasons. If you want to make your point with @Xenon you’ll have to do it with actual factual data. 
 

I don’t deny that warmer parts of town in Houston didn’t see 19-18F. I’m also delighted to hear that most Queens survived January 2018 there, as I love palms and don’t want to see them die.
Plus it gives me hope that in the freezes to come there’s hope for Queens here, as 20F range is what we experience here during bad winters. 
I’d love to provide factual data as I’m very interested in it myself for my area. Unfortunately, as a very small area that often gets thrown together with colder surrounding areas, I simply don’t have it. 

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29 minutes ago, Estlander said:

I don’t deny that warmer parts of town in Houston didn’t see 19-18F. I’m also delighted to hear that most Queens survived January 2018 there, as I love palms and don’t want to see them die.
Plus it gives me hope that in the freezes to come there’s hope for Queens here, as 20F range is what we experience here during bad winters. 
I’d love to provide factual data as I’m very interested in it myself for my area. Unfortunately, as a very small area that often gets thrown together with colder surrounding areas, I simply don’t have it. 

I have that problem too. I actually live in a small community just southeast of Houston on Galveston bay. Low temperatures here are usually 3-5 degrees warmer than hobby airport which would put my average annual low at 30+. But since weather records defer to Houston, I can’t really claim to be 10a. I simply don’t have the data to support that claim. It is what it is. But for non zone pushers like queens it doesn’t really matter. They do well here and around hobby. Where it makes a difference is with things like foxtails and kings. Although those did very well inside the i610 loop from about 1990-2010. Some even made it through 2010 to be killed in 2018. 

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@Xenon @Jeff985 @Estlander

What the hell. Just what the hell. I still cant understand why all this damn arguing even started, and i dont want an answer. STOP THIS MADNESS, WHAT THE HELL HAS QUARANTINE DONE TO ALL OF YOU!?! YALL HAVE BEEN BACK AND FORTH FOR THE PAST 24 HOURS ABOUT THIS AND IT NEEDS TO STOP, ACT LIKE ADULTS AND MOVE ON WITH YOURSELVES!!!! GET OUT AND ENJOY THESE PALMS YALL SPEAK OF AND STOP THIS PATHETIC CRAP SHOW!!!!!! IM SURE TIRED OF IT AND I THINK OTHERS ARE ASWELL. :rant: Which by the way @Estlander, how is your new queen holding on? Mine went through some leaf shredding today with all the high winds.

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 3 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 P. roebelenii, 2 S. palmetto, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 A. merillii, 3 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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54 minutes ago, JLM said:

@Xenon @Jeff985 @Estlander

@Estlander, how is your new queen holding on? Mine went through some leaf shredding today with all the high winds.

New Queen is holding up good. No damage as far as I can tell. 
Although, the wind has picked up here again and blowing pretty good right now. We’ll see what it looks like tomorrow. 

Your new one still has strap leaves. On Queens they’re very wide. They probably acted like a sail and caught wind pretty good. 

Edited by Estlander
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For anyone interested, this is as much low temperature data as I could derive from the executive airport out on the barrier island.  I've also attached it in spreadsheet form.  The notes allude to the missing lows in some years (noted by 0's in the low column when they weren't recorded) or obviously invalid data like -63 for a low.  I noted the month the low was recorded just so we could see the distribution by month - with no surprise that it was usually in January. 

@Estlander stepped forward for those of us in Florida and took screen shots of the Weather Underground maps for the various regions of Florida during our short cold spell this winter.  This data compilation is my way of returning the favor.

image.png.911744faeb34d7cfd86ce3a376d123df.png

202003312220_DestinExecutiveAirport.xlsx

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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28 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

For anyone interested, this is as much low temperature data as I could derive from the executive airport out on the barrier island.  I've also attached it in spreadsheet form.  The notes allude to the missing lows in some years (noted by 0's in the low column when they weren't recorded) or obviously invalid data like -63 for a low.  I noted the month the low was recorded just so we could see the distribution by month - with no surprise that it was usually in January. 

@Estlander stepped forward for those of us in Florida and took screen shots of the Weather Underground maps for the various regions of Florida during our short cold spell this winter.  This data compilation is my way of returning the favor.

image.png.911744faeb34d7cfd86ce3a376d123df.png

202003312220_DestinExecutiveAirport.xlsx 11.99 kB · 1 download

Thank you for that. Much appreciated:)

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Not trying to revive this thread and start anything here. Just wanted to post a few pics of my short walk around my neighborhood today. 
Saw few more Queens and even one young Bismarckia. 
A simple fact is, if we had millions of people here, we too would have thousands of Queens. 
 

0CA44280-93E6-4179-A496-29121CC61432.jpeg

AB46BA3F-B497-4590-956D-5BD64F92CBF0.jpeg

E5E0E257-C78D-42CB-9C21-10E9AB182AD0.jpeg

6FF1F26C-90B2-469B-9C6B-B018066D0EC5.jpeg

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Also saw this P. Canariensis with probably the longest fronds I’ve ever seen. Just thought it looked cool, that’s all. 

09CD818F-DD47-4595-9B43-87FA4BFD82D7.jpeg

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I should do a follow up on my yard....but here is a pic of my L. Nitida, and S. causiarum trunks ..... hard to get full tree in pic. It looks like I might get seed from the nitida but every year they don't seem to mature enough to be viable. 

20200405_100214.jpg

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David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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9 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

I should do a follow up on my yard....but here is a pic of my L. Nitida, and S. causiarum trunks ..... hard to get full tree in pic. It looks like I might get seed from the nitida but every year they don't seem to mature enough to be viable. 

20200405_100214.jpg

:greenthumb: An update would be great..  Sure i'm not the only one wondering how your yard has grown..

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1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

:greenthumb: An update would be great..  Sure i'm not the only one wondering how your yard has grown..

I agree would love to see more of that Causiarum 

T J 

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@Estlander

The severe storms we had shredded those leaves! I had woke up and walked outside that morning just to find pieces of leaves hanging on by a thread from winds before the storms! In total i would say it had some moderate damage. But the new spear is coming along great and will be its very first all pinnate leaf frond. I might be able to get pics of all of them tomorrow!

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 3 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 P. roebelenii, 2 S. palmetto, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 A. merillii, 3 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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@Estlander

For comparison the first pic is when it was the morning after it was brought home. The last is just a few minutes ago. Tye last picture is looking south aswell as the top. It is a few feet away from the largest.

20200314_093316.jpg

20200408_152305.jpg

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 3 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 P. roebelenii, 2 S. palmetto, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 A. merillii, 3 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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2 hours ago, JLM said:

@Estlander

For comparison the first pic is when it was the morning after it was brought home. The last is just a few minutes ago. Tye last picture is looking south aswell as the top. It is a few feet away from the largest.

Looks good. Yours is in a very open spot and still has strap leaves, hence the damage probably. Doubt the winds were much stronger where you are than here.
Once all your fronds go pinnate it’ll be pretty wind resistant. 
My big Queen didn’t have any damage even after hurricane Michael. 
Here’s how my smaller one looks right now. 6ft. tall already. 

D845DCE1-EB9E-40FB-8AF0-5B7735756FC2.jpeg

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Wow @Estlander was that a 2.25 gallon or a 3? My other smaller queen has grown only a foot since in ground. The largest has grown atleast 1.5-2 ft since in ground. Whats your methodology to the fast growth. I think my largest queen is about to skyrocket cause it has a new spear coming in and is coming in right behind the spear from December which has proven to be a really slow grower so far. I might be able to get more pics here before dark on all of them. Cant wait until its all pinnate leaf so i dont have to worry about anymore issues such as wind damage!

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 3 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 P. roebelenii, 2 S. palmetto, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 A. merillii, 3 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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Oh and question,

Why do you think the spear on my backyard queen is opening prematurely. This happened with the December spear on my largest. Do you think it has something to do the pre-winter drought on top of several frosts unprotected? Strange because this isnt happening with my newest one and not anymore with my largest.

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 3 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 P. roebelenii, 2 S. palmetto, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 A. merillii, 3 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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First is the backyard queen, second is the newest edition, and last but not least, the largest queen. All with new growth!

20200408_193805.jpg

20200408_194003.jpg

20200408_194213.jpg

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 3 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 P. roebelenii, 2 S. palmetto, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 A. merillii, 3 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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50 minutes ago, JLM said:

Wow @Estlander was that a 2.25 gallon or a 3? My other smaller queen has grown only a foot since in ground. The largest has grown atleast 1.5-2 ft since in ground. Whats your methodology to the fast growth. 

It came in a 2.2 gallon pot. 
I have no method really. I just stick them in the ground and add a little bit of garden soil or peat moss mixed in with native soil. 
After that I keep everything mulched and try to make sure they get watered twice a week in the summer, when most of the growth happens. 
Also give them some Palmgain two two three times a year. 

I have seen several recent Queen plantings here where after planting the palms just sit there many many months doing nothing and turning yellowish. I suspect that’s because people add fertilizer in the hole when planting thinking it’ll help them get going faster. When in fact the opposite happens and the roots just get burned by the fertilizer. 

Edited by Estlander
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40 minutes ago, JLM said:

Oh and question,

Why do you think the spear on my backyard queen is opening prematurely. This happened with the December spear on my largest. Do you think it has something to do the pre-winter drought on top of several frosts unprotected? Strange because this isnt happening with my newest one and not anymore with my largest.

Your Queens look good to me. I wouldn’t worry about little anomalies here and there. As long as you have spear growth and everything is green, you’re good. Whatever is causing it, they’ll surely grow out of it over the summer. 

Edited by Estlander
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  • 4 weeks later...

@Estlander Your largest queen should have started trunking by now atleast a little bit. My newest queen's spear is opening up finally! By looking at pics back from winter on other threads, my largest queen's trunk has gotten much larger aswell as the backyard queen. Really nice sized spear coming in on the largest aswell! 

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 3 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 P. roebelenii, 2 S. palmetto, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 A. merillii, 3 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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4 hours ago, JLM said:

@Estlander Your largest queen should have started trunking by now atleast a little bit. 

Yes, I think I can see some trunk forming already. 

D69A63EB-2E55-408F-85E2-487B6F0ACAB3.jpeg

8B150C05-67EB-4063-9EA1-6C8E6611802A.jpeg

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I notice that there's quite a few trees species common in Destin and the Southern US that have their warm limit USDA hardiness no higher than 9-10, such as the bald cypress, long leaf pine, and Southern magnolia.

Thus, I've been thinking that, over the next few decades, the SE US could be in for a major ecosystem collapse -> restructuring,  assuming that cold fronts stop being so intense - because the cold snaps manifest over a small portion of days at most, it ends up that alot of these tree species are literally hanging on only the few sufficiently chill days to survive, and that a climate shift such as to eliminate cold snaps (below 40F or so) could cause a major tree die off in Southern US forests.

Edited by AnTonY
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  • 11 months later...
On 3/22/2020 at 1:42 PM, Estlander said:

JLM, If you ever wanna try something interesting in your yard like Arenga Engleri or Phoenix Reclinata Hybrids, or pure Phoenix Canariensis, then I have some extra ones I can give you. 
My P. Reclinata are from a local plant below I picked seeds from in 2018. 
 

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D8E2907A-A3E3-4A5D-BFE0-EDFD261FE564.jpeg

 

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