Two days of 21-22f in north TX

[NCFM]

50 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

To be fair, England is pretty rainy and cool for 9 months of the year. That wouldn't be an unfair assessment in all honesty, but the southeast of the country can get pretty hot during the summer months, allowing a good growing season. The same cannot be said for the north and west of the country. Those areas are considerably cooler, year-round. And at the same time we don't get the extreme cold here either, like in continental Europe and the US, which is why I can grow a lot of the stuff that I do at this latitude.

Butia and Jubaea do well for me, although they grow very slowly here. But they don't get damaged. Cordylines grow like weeds around here and are over-planted. Pretty much every garden has one. Much like the Trachy's. Also, Chamaerops are really taking off now with lots of residents and councils planting them in towns and cities as they do so well here. Sabal's also establish pretty easy, but are slow growing. I'm mostly surprised with how well the Washie's have done for me and I have seen some go from 6 inches to 6 feet in height, in the space of 3 years in the ground here. CIDP also getting established around the southeast of England now. Out of the Phoenix sp. I have CIDP, Dacty, Sylvestris, Theophrasti and a few hybrids - all of which are thriving here. So lots of different types do well here. I haven't actually trialled the Queens long enough to give a verdict on them, although they sailed through last winter here. 

One palm that I think you will be able to grow where you are is Chamaerops Humilis, which is the second hardiest species in my garden, after the Trachy's. I don't know what the lowest temperature is that you have seen over the past decade, but the European fan palm (Chamaerops Humilis) should be hardy down to at least 15F before it incurs any damage, with extensive damage at 10F and defoliation at 5F. Death supposedly happens at around 0F. Although it may happen at a higher temperature in winter wet-cold environments such as my own, the eastern US and PNW. I suspect in our areas, 5-10F could potentially be fatal when combined with snow/ice. Mine have taken snow and 15F temps in Feb 2018 though with only minor damage. And they took 22F last winter with zero damage whatsoever. They might be worth a punt for you to try.

Regards

Wow I had no idea so many palms can grow in the UK. I'd love to come and visit the south coast some time. Cordylines are common here too, even more so towards the coast. I've been thinking about trying cordyline australis but I'm not sure it would make it. I'd also like to give washies a go, but their hardiness in my zone is questionable at best. I might purchase a filifera seedling in the near future and give it a shot anyway. Ah yes, european fan palms are very common down in the eastern part of the state, not so much where I live. I'd imagine they could make it though, especially if I planted them on a southward facing wall. It's pretty rare for it to drop below 25f at my elevation, but like you I also experience wet winters so that presents a problem.  Thanks for the suggestions!

Edited November 27, 2019 by NC_Palm_Enthusiast

[RyManUtah]

1 hour ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Wow I had no idea so many palms can grow in the UK. I'd love to come and visit the south coast some time. Cordylines are common here too, even more so towards the coast. I've been thinking about trying cordyline australis but I'm not sure it would make it. I'd also like to give washies a go, but their hardiness in my zone is questionable at best. I might purchase a filifera seedling in the near future and give it a shot anyway. Ah yes, european fan palms are very common down in the eastern part of the state, not so much where I live. I'd imagine they could make it though, especially if I planted them on a southward facing wall. It's pretty rare for it to drop below 25f at my elevation, but like you I also experience wet winters so that presents a problem.  Thanks for the suggestions!

If you rarely get below 25. Filifera would be a great fit. They are however, from the dry desert and don’t much Luke humidity. A hybrid filibusta, with dominant filifera would give you similar cold hardiness but handle humidity better. 
they’re one of the easiest palms to grow, they grow themselves. I get them in my sidewalk every spring. 

[GottmitAlex]

19 minutes ago, Ryagra said:

If you rarely get below 25. Filifera would be a great fit. They are however, from the dry desert and don’t much Luke humidity. A hybrid filibusta, with dominant filifera would give you similar cold hardiness but handle humidity better. 
they’re one of the easiest palms to grow, they grow themselves. I get them in my sidewalk every spring. 

 

[mdsonofthesouth]

Lowest this year for us during the cold snap was 25f...still surprised y'all got colder than us. Either way that was definitely a freak event this early in the year. Sorry to hear about the damage

[NCFM]

4 hours ago, Ryagra said:

If you rarely get below 25. Filifera would be a great fit. They are however, from the dry desert and don’t much Luke humidity. A hybrid filibusta, with dominant filifera would give you similar cold hardiness but handle humidity better. 
they’re one of the easiest palms to grow, they grow themselves. I get them in my sidewalk every spring. 

Interesting, I'll certainly have to give them a try. The wet winters and rare drops below 20 are what scare me, but I've heard one cold night isn't what kills most palms, rather the extended periods of cold. I've never seen any washies as far west as I am in NC, but that may just be because not as many people grow palms around here. For some reason lots of folks think palms only belong at the beach.

[RyManUtah]

12 minutes ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Interesting, I'll certainly have to give them a try. The wet winters and rare drops below 20 are what scare me, but I've heard one cold night isn't what kills most palms, rather the extended periods of cold. I've never seen any washies as far west as I am in NC, but that may just be because not as many people grow palms around here. For some reason lots of folks think palms only belong at the beach.

if you want to try some when it warms up a bit let me know. I can dig a couple up for you if you’d like. 
 

it is usually a prolonged cold that will kill a palm. There’s been several years we had cold for days and thought they were dead. By mid summer you can’t even tell they lost all their fronds. They put out more growth than they’ll lose, especially in hot summer climates. 
 

A lot of people don’t like palms, and I don’t understand it, but to each their own I guess. I personally think palms should be anywhere where they can be grown 

[RJ]

4 hours ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Interesting, I'll certainly have to give them a try. The wet winters and rare drops below 20 are what scare me, but I've heard one cold night isn't what kills most palms, rather the extended periods of cold. I've never seen any washies as far west as I am in NC, but that may just be because not as many people grow palms around here. For some reason lots of folks think palms only belong at the beach.

They're actually some established ones up around a lake by Charlotte, NC. Was surprised to see them actually.  

 

 

[Meangreen94z]

There is a nursery in Bend, Oregon that sells Filifera and Filibusta seeds from palms they claim survive their zone 6. If you’re in a wet climate, go with the Filibusta seeds of course.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Washingtonia-filifera-Oregon-High-Desert-COLD-HARDY-zone-6-10-seeds-/254361631126

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Washingtonia-filibusta-Oregon-High-Desert-COLD-HARDY-zone-6-15-seeds/254428080778?hash=item3b3d186a8a:g:-sMAAOSwN3lcsOga

[Swolte]

On 11/26/2019 at 10:02 AM, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

The ones in the ground are in perfect condition, just more purple/magenta than before.

Wow, this is surprising. You think damage may show up later on your Bismarckia?

This is a very valuable thread with some great documentation!

~ S 

[NCFM]

9 hours ago, Ryagra said:

if you want to try some when it warms up a bit let me know. I can dig a couple up for you if you’d like. 
 

it is usually a prolonged cold that will kill a palm. There’s been several years we had cold for days and thought they were dead. By mid summer you can’t even tell they lost all their fronds. They put out more growth than they’ll lose, especially in hot summer climates. 
 

A lot of people don’t like palms, and I don’t understand it, but to each their own I guess. I personally think palms should be anywhere where they can be grown 

Thanks so much! I’ll have to remember your offer come spring time. I have a good southward facing wall where I could plant one, the only problem is it only gets a modest amount of sunlight. I would assume these palms do better in full sun?

[RyManUtah]

1 minute ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Thanks so much! I’ll have to remember your offer come spring time. I have a good southward facing wall where I could plant one, the only problem is it only gets a modest amount of sunlight. I would assume these palms do better in full sun?

Of course.

they do their best in full sun, yes. They will grow in part though 

[NCFM]

5 hours ago, RJ said:

They're actually some established ones up around a lake by Charlotte, NC. Was surprised to see them actually.  

 

 

Wow those look great. I’d love to someday have a lake house on Wylie.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

6 hours ago, Swolte said:

Wow, this is surprising. You think damage may show up later on your Bismarckia?

This is a very valuable thread with some great documentation!

~ S 

No they do that every year.  No damage.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Btw this thread wasnt started to get the UK palm discussion drug back around. 

[RyManUtah]

1 hour ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

No they do that every year.  No damage.

That’s awesome! Bismarckia is a fantastic palm around here. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Bizzies are hard to be beat , can be grown in many different climates as they are drought tolerant, cold hardy , love full sun and very stately =) 

[RyManUtah]

10 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Bizzies are hard to be beat , can be grown in many different climates as they are drought tolerant, cold hardy , love full sun and very stately =) 

I completely agree! I fell in love when I saw them for the first time somewhere.
 

Great job on the 9a Hardy’s btw @TexasColdHardyPalms

[UK_Palms]

1 hour ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Btw this thread wasnt started to get the UK palm discussion drug back around. 

Come on man, the dude was straight up asking me a question on here. Was I not supposed to answer it and ignore him?

Besides, neither of us have even commented on the subject for 24 hours now, as the discussion had finished... 

[Jeff985]

59 minutes ago, Ryagra said:

That’s awesome! Bismarckia is a fantastic palm around here. 

You have bismarkia growing in Utah??? 

[RyManUtah]

4 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

You have bismarkia growing in Utah??? 

Oh my no. I meant to type fantasy not fantastic. Sorry! 

[Jeff985]

2 minutes ago, Ryagra said:

Oh my no. I meant to type fantasy not fantastic. Sorry! 

Ha. That blew my mind. 

[Chester B]

On 11/28/2019 at 5:53 AM, Meangreen94z said:

There is a nursery in Bend, Oregon that sells Filifera and Filibusta seeds from palms they claim survive their zone 6. If you’re in a wet climate, go with the Filibusta seeds of course.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Washingtonia-filifera-Oregon-High-Desert-COLD-HARDY-zone-6-10-seeds-/254361631126

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Washingtonia-filibusta-Oregon-High-Desert-COLD-HARDY-zone-6-15-seeds/254428080778?hash=item3b3d186a8a:g:-sMAAOSwN3lcsOga

I ordered the filibusta seeds so we'll see if they germinate and if they can survive the damp here.  I can say straight filifera is a no go without protection base on what I've been told as well as my own personal experience.  The filibusta seeds were remarkably small about half the size of Sabal seeds, not sure if that's normal?

[RyManUtah]

10 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I ordered the filibusta seeds so we'll see if they germinate and if they can survive the damp here.  I can say straight filifera is a no go without protection base on what I've been told as well as my own personal experience.  The filibusta seeds were remarkably small about half the size of Sabal seeds, not sure if that's normal?

Washingtonia seeds are extremely small. Both Species seeds are identical. They should look like this: 

 

[Chester B]

20 hours ago, Ryagra said:

Washingtonia seeds are extremely small. Both Species seeds are identical. They should look like this: 

 

Yep that's them.  Thanks for the photos.  I'm still surprised at how small they were compared to other palms.

[RyManUtah]

5 hours ago, Chester B said:

Yep that's them.  Thanks for the photos.  I'm still surprised at how small they were compared to other palms.

Of course. I germinate these all the time for guerrilla endeavors, If you have any issues I’d be glad to assist. 
crazy huh? Especially for how big of a palm they become. 

[NCFM]

2 hours ago, Ryagra said:

Of course. I germinate these all the time for guerrilla endeavors, If you have any issues I’d be glad to assist. 
crazy huh? Especially for how big of a palm they become. 

How long does it typically take to germinate washy seeds?

[RyManUtah]

3 hours ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

How long does it typically take to germinate washy seeds?

They need warm air.

~3 weeks inside. 
outside in the summer less than 2.

you should start to see a strap ~4 weeks. 
pure filifera only being SLIGHTLY slower. 

[Chester B]

I'm doing baggie method at 86F.  Hopefully the seeds are fresh.

[Silas_Sancona]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

I'm doing baggie method at 86F.  Hopefully the seeds are fresh.

Should work fine.. While fresher seed should germinate faster, overall, long term viability shouldn't be an issue since i get 2+ yr old seed popping up in pots/ in the gravel under the Mesquite out back year round, even in places i don't water often, if at all.

[RaleighNC]

On 11/26/2019 at 7:02 AM, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

It was a record tying cold for us early November with very unusual cold so early in the year.  We have since had a few weeks of 70-82F weather so all the damage is showing.  This storm had 36hrs of 20-40mph wind and the first morning we dropped to 22F and only warmed to 38.  The second morning was a very heavy frost and dropped to 21F.  

I really enjoyed seeing this report on the cold tolerance of these cycads. I have many of these same species and hybrids growing in my yard in Raleigh, but I have been away in California since September and will only get a chance to see them in late February when I return.  I usually offer some protection on cold nights, but not this winter. I'll be sure to give an update on their status when I get the chance.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Since this cold front we havent been below 31f.  And the Bradford pears are starting to bloom as they must be confused.  What a shame....

[WNCpalms]

It was also cold in the North Carolina Blue Ridge......15 degrees one night only  November 2019.  The only thing I have in the ground are Trachycarpus palms at this point and they came through in good shape.  I like to push boundaries but Sagos are a sure bet to die here.  Have seen real climate change here in the last 20 years......generally warmer by 5-7 degrees in winter.

[mdsonofthesouth]

9 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Since this cold front we havent been below 31f.  And the Bradford pears are starting to bloom as they must be confused.  What a shame....

 

Bradford pears are invasive around here and they seem to have the weakest limbs to boot. But I will say they are usually some of the last to lose their leaves well after other species and one of the first to bloom...they also put off a nasty smelling sap if I'm not mistaken. They burn well though so I guess that's a good thing!

Edited January 9, 2020 by mdsonofthesouth

[Silas_Sancona]

18 minutes ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

Bradford pears are invasive around here and they seem to have the weakest limbs to boot. But I will say they are usually some of the last to lose their leaves well after other species and one of the first to bloom...they also put off a nasty smelling sap if I'm not mistaken. They burn well though so I guess that's a good thing!

Invasive and yes.. VERY weak limb structure.  Aside from what damage they sustain during "Tornado" season, sometime ago when i lived in Kansas, we had a multi-day rain to ice/ ice to snow.. finishing off with more ice -type of event that shred 90% or more of the Bradford Pears in and around Lawrence.. and throughout both sides of Kansas City down to their trunks. From what i have heard, they're supposedly becoming invasive across Eastern / N.E.'rn KS/ Western MO currently.  Yes, Flowers stink and are pure torture if you happen to be allergic to them..

Only two trees, besides Bradford Pear, i can think of that suffer as bad.. or worse damage in storms are Slippery Elm, and Sliver Maple.