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Chambeyronia macrocarpa (hookeri)


Jungle Yard

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Anytime Chambeyronia unfolds its leaf, it is a guaranteed showstopper.

I have several of them, but this particular one is the most colorful so far. Its total hight is only 50 in (127 cm), growing under direct sunlight from late morning on. 

One pic, light through, another light on.

IMG_0525.jpeg

IMG_0531.jpeg

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Beautiful palm. Hookeri usually isn't that colorful. Chambeyronias do well here.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Beautiful palm. Hookeri usually isn't that colorful. Chambeyronias do well here.

Interesting...My experience is that hookeri's produce the best reds.  Sun and heat definitely have an impact.

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Huntington Beach, CA

USDA Zone 10a/10b

Sunset Zone 24

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10 minutes ago, joe_OC said:

Interesting...My experience is that hookeri's produce the best reds.  Sun and heat definitely have an impact.

Agreed...hookeris are deeper red than macrocarpa in my yard.

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Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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Usually, it is the case with hookeri. But there are exceptions too. I have a hookeri that doesn't want to develop vivid color. Here both are for comparison. The leaves have opened on the same day. Still a beautiful palm!

IMG_0533.jpeg

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wow! I just bought a couple of these.  I'm glad I did after seeing yours. 

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I have found Hookeri to be slower and less robust than standard macrocarpa. I have both in my back yard that I planted as young seedlings. My only mortalities have been Hookeris. The macrocarpas all grew faster and larger. Knowing what I learned by experience I would not plant the two varieties together so I germinated seeds of Hookeri and planted a couple of those seedlings on the west side of the house away from macrocarpa competition.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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35 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I have found Hookeri to be slower and less robust than standard macrocarpa. I have both in my back yard that I planted as young seedlings. My only mortalities have been Hookeris. The macrocarpas all grew faster and larger. Knowing what I learned by experience I would not plant the two varieties together so I germinated seeds of Hookeri and planted a couple of those seedlings on the west side of the house away from macrocarpa competition.

Must be climate...  In SoCal, hookeri is by far the fastest of my Chambeyronias.

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Huntington Beach, CA

USDA Zone 10a/10b

Sunset Zone 24

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3 minutes ago, joe_OC said:

Must be climate...  In SoCal, hookeri is by far the fastest of my Chambeyronias.

Good thought. I wonder if Hookeris tend to be higher altititude palms that have a harder time dealing with FL summer nightly swelter for 6-7 months. I would love to try C. lepidota but haven't dared because it is a mid-level elevation palm.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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It could be summer heat.  I have a Hookeri that I bought as a bare-rooted 1 gallon seedling, shipped to me from MA.  I also bought 3 slightly larger Macrocarpa palms locally at about the same time last summer.  The 3 Macrocarpa are consistently growing (even during winter) and all 3 opened new bright red fronds in February.  The Hookeri just sat there looking unhappy for the last 7 months, and *finally* opened a new small frond 2 weeks ago, with no red color.  It might not have liked being bare rooted for shipment, doesn't like my soil mix, or maybe Hookeri just isn't happy in FL.   If it's the latter then I might just toss it and stick with Macrocarpa.

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  • 2 years later...
On 3/28/2019 at 3:05 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

Good thought. I wonder if Hookeris tend to be higher altititude palms that have a harder time dealing with FL summer nightly swelter for 6-7 months. I would love to try C. lepidota but haven't dared because it is a mid-level elevation palm.

Mine does well here in Cape Coral.  Planted on the north side of a small palm garden.  Gets full on north Winter winds and full shade in Winter to blazing, hot sun in the Summer.  Does awesome for me.  3 to 4 leaves per year.  Fire, deep red.  Planted in 2016 as a 1 gallon seedling and is now 9 foot overall in height.  Fertilize 1x per year.  Regular sprinkler water in dry season.  Never babied at all.  A beauty and should be more widely planted here.  Pictures are from November.  Produced one more leaf since then.

20210725_100906.jpg

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20210725_100927.jpg

20210725_101006.jpg

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That is a beauty, Garrett

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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I think hookeri is the same species,  yellow-crownshaft variety ( then there is watermelon). Thats the only difference I can see from macrocarpa. Are there any other differences or reason to believe it's a separate species?

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54 minutes ago, Frond-friend42 said:

I think hookeri is the same species,  yellow-crownshaft variety ( then there is watermelon). Thats the only difference I can see from macrocarpa. Are there any other differences or reason to believe it's a separate species?

Hookeri and macrocarpa appear to be variants of the same species. Watermelon is a variant of both. I have both ordinary and watermelons in macrocarpa and hookeri.

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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I have found greater differences in red color in the new leaf of a single palm depending on the season.  In summer with direct sun my macrocarpa is already turned to salmon before the leaf fully opens.  In winter it is as intense a red as any chamby I've seen here.  Why is that?  Well, the red  color is anthocyanin which absorbs blue and some green and its the dominant chromophore before the new leaf pumps in the chlorophyll.  How fast the plant pumps in the chlorophyll will determine how quickly the red color fades.  The anthocyanin doesn't go away after the chlorophyll is introduced, it is still there, but the amount of chlorophyll is 10-20x greater once the plant has pumped chlorophyll into the leaf nd chlorophyll absorbs red light very strongly.  There are hand held devices that allow you to look at anthocyanin content and also chlorophyll content, your eye cannot tell how much anthycyanin there is in the presence of chlorophyll.  Because chlorophyll is a very strong absorber of red light, anything that passes the anthocyanin(which would be red light) in the epidermal layer will get absorbed by the chlorophyll in the spongy mesophyll layer.  These palms may have about the same level of anthocyanin but they are transferring chlorophyll into the leaf faster under some conditions.   I am not convinced that what we are seeing is not mostly dominated by how fast the palm pumps chlorophyll into the leaves when they open.  

image.thumb.png.1f44f0498c3c575cf294630db00f15cc.png 

 

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Thanks for the graphic and specific information. Every bit of knowledge adds to general understanding and more questions.

Tim

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Tim

Hilo, Hawaii

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anthocyanins are water soluble, chlorophyll is not water soluble so they are not in the same compartments.  The epidermal layer is mostly water, the chlorophyll is contained in the spongy mesophyll which has lots of lipophiles.  So if your palm is growing faster(sun, heat?) the red goes faster.  In winter, my chamby is in pretty good shade with a bunch a trees to the south and bigger palms overhead.  In the summer the sun comes from the north/NW over the house, no obstructions in the heat of the summer.  When it comes out of the southwest(blocked by trees) I get great red color for a several days before the salmon tint shows up.  Its a palm I love in winter and its a bit of a disappointment in summer because I know how stunning the color is in winter.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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19 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

anthocyanins are water soluble, chlorophyll is not water soluble so they are not in the same compartments.  The epidermal layer is mostly water, the chlorophyll is contained in the spongy mesophyll which has lots of lipophiles.  So if your palm is growing faster(sun, heat?) the red goes faster.  In winter, my chamby is in pretty good shade with a bunch a trees to the south and bigger palms overhead.  In the summer the sun comes from the north/NW over the house, no obstructions in the heat of the summer.  When it comes out of the southwest(blocked by trees) I get great red color for a several days before the salmon tint shows up.  Its a palm I love in winter and its a bit of a disappointment in summer because I know how stunning the color is in winter.

I had the regular or green form macrocarpa at my other home in Cape Coral Florida and it always sent out a boring, lightly colored salmon leaf.  Every season it looked the same.  Planted on the north side of my home so shaded more in Winter, much more sun in Summer.  Never ever showed red.  My hookeri is fire red any season and every new leaf.  Not sure if this is genetics but I do enjoy the show.  Other one was a dud for color.

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10 minutes ago, Cape Garrett said:

I had the regular or green form macrocarpa at my other home in Cape Coral Florida and it always sent out a boring, lightly colored salmon leaf.  Every season it looked the same.  Planted on the north side of my home so shaded more in Winter, much more sun in Summer.  Never ever showed red.  My hookeri is fire red any season and every new leaf.  Not sure if this is genetics but I do enjoy the show.

I know there is a green form.  I have seen a dozen macrocarpa 5-7 gallons throwing red all at once, all very similar in color.  I have two mcrocarpas, both are red though not sure how red the younger one seems to fade faster, maybe young plant hormones driving that.  Is your hookeri in full all day sun?

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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mine this past winter in dappled sunlight

IMG_6829.thumb.JPG.423123db23868c1bec4d25edfa9179ac.JPG

 

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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2 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

I have found greater differences in red color in the new leaf of a single palm depending on the season.  In summer with direct sun my macrocarpa is already turned to salmon before the leaf fully opens.  In winter it is as intense a red as any chamby I've seen here.  Why is that?  Well, the red  color is anthocyanin which absorbs blue and some green and its the dominant chromophore before the new leaf pumps in the chlorophyll.  How fast the plant pumps in the chlorophyll will determine how quickly the red color fades.  The anthocyanin doesn't go away after the chlorophyll is introduced, it is still there, but the amount of chlorophyll is 10-20x greater once the plant has pumped chlorophyll into the leaf nd chlorophyll absorbs red light very strongly.  There are hand held devices that allow you to look at anthocyanin content and also chlorophyll content, your eye cannot tell how much anthycyanin there is in the presence of chlorophyll.  Because chlorophyll is a very strong absorber of red light, anything that passes the anthocyanin(which would be red light) in the epidermal layer will get absorbed by the chlorophyll in the spongy mesophyll layer.  These palms may have about the same level of anthocyanin but they are transferring chlorophyll into the leaf faster under some conditions.   I am not convinced that what we are seeing is not mostly dominated by how fast the palm pumps chlorophyll into the leaves when they open.  

image.thumb.png.1f44f0498c3c575cf294630db00f15cc.png 

 

Interesting. This adaptation I was once told was to protect new leaves from sun damage. Welfias do it and a tour guide was pointing this out in Costa Rica, etc.

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1 hour ago, Frond-friend42 said:

Interesting. This adaptation I was once told was to protect new leaves from sun damage. Welfias do it and a tour guide was pointing this out in Costa Rica, etc.

There are various opinions on the functionality of anthocyanins, sun damage is one thing, insect/pathogen repellent/control on new growth is another.  From reading articles, I think they have not fully understood the functionality of these pigments.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1082902/

 

"CONSEQUENCES OF BEING RED

Anthocyanins in vivo absorb the green and yellow wavebands of light, commonly between 500 and 600 nm [20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25]. Foliage appears red because of the subtraction of yellow-green light from the spectrum of light reflected from the leaf's surface. Interestingly, the amount of red light that is reflected from red leaves often only poorly correlates to anthocyanin content [20]; leaf morphology and the amount and distribution of chlorophyll are apparently the stronger determinants of red reflectance. The property of anthocyanins to absorb light provides a mechanism for several important functions in leaves."

 

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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3 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

I know there is a green form.  I have seen a dozen macrocarpa 5-7 gallons throwing red all at once, all very similar in color.  I have two mcrocarpas, both are red though not sure how red the younger one seems to fade faster, maybe young plant hormones driving that.  Is your hookeri in full all day sun?

The hookeri is in full sun in Summer only...very little sun in Winter.  Fire red every time.  Mine from the other house same sun same season.  Just always opened a very light salmon leaf...was boring

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4 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

I have found greater differences in red color in the new leaf of a single palm depending on the season.  In summer with direct sun my macrocarpa is already turned to salmon before the leaf fully opens.  In winter it is as intense a red as any chamby I've seen here.  Why is that?  Well, the red  color is anthocyanin which absorbs blue and some green and its the dominant chromophore before the new leaf pumps in the chlorophyll.  How fast the plant pumps in the chlorophyll will determine how quickly the red color fades.  The anthocyanin doesn't go away after the chlorophyll is introduced, it is still there, but the amount of chlorophyll is 10-20x greater once the plant has pumped chlorophyll into the leaf nd chlorophyll absorbs red light very strongly.  There are hand held devices that allow you to look at anthocyanin content and also chlorophyll content, your eye cannot tell how much anthycyanin there is in the presence of chlorophyll.  Because chlorophyll is a very strong absorber of red light, anything that passes the anthocyanin(which would be red light) in the epidermal layer will get absorbed by the chlorophyll in the spongy mesophyll layer.  These palms may have about the same level of anthocyanin but they are transferring chlorophyll into the leaf faster under some conditions.   I am not convinced that what we are seeing is not mostly dominated by how fast the palm pumps chlorophyll into the leaves when they open.  

image.thumb.png.1f44f0498c3c575cf294630db00f15cc.png 

 

Which might help explain why they stay red so much longer in the short day season, regardless of temperature.

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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14 hours ago, Cape Garrett said:

The hookeri is in full sun in Summer only...very little sun in Winter.  Fire red every time.  Mine from the other house same sun same season.  Just always opened a very light salmon leaf...was boring

Interesting, not sure why that would be.  A leaf that introduces chlorophyll faster(loses red faster) is very likely a faster growing leaf if all else is the same.  Might be some epigenetic adaptation through a few generations in cultivation.  Some might be better adapted to intense sunlight.   

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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there is also beauty i n the salmon colored leaf if it persists.  For me it doesn't persist in summer, the yellow/green shows up before it can all go salmon.  Here is a leaf that was nice and red early on and the salmon leaf with nice green leaf veins full of chlorophyll.  In winter this takes 5-6 days to go salmon like this.  In summer the green comes so fast it never gets that salmon color, more yellow due to chlorophyll.  All chambys look more red in shade or limited light, no doubt.

VeryRedChambyLF (2).JPG

Chamby_salmonleaf.jpg

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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10 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

there is also beauty i n the salmon colored leaf if it persists.  For me it doesn't persist in summer, the yellow/green shows up before it can all go salmon.  Here is a leaf that was nice and red early on and the salmon leaf with nice green leaf veins full of chlorophyll.  In winter this takes 5-6 days to go salmon like this.  In summer the green comes so fast it never gets that salmon color, more yellow due to chlorophyll.  All chambys look more red in shade or limited light, no doubt.

VeryRedChambyLF (2).JPG

Chamby_salmonleaf.jpg

My salmon was soooooo light.  Nothing like the beautiful salmon of yours.  Almost a super light peach.  Wish I had a picture to show.  Yours there is NOT boring at all.

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They have these beautiful palms in stock at the babypalms site for order for those of us in southern europe.  I would love to order some for my Portuguese garden but don't know for sure where I would put them. and its a palm that is completely new to me.

From what I see they would love the long summers here in Portugal, its just a case of the cool winter rain - not that there are many really cold nights and it rarely falls to freezing (though very unusually there was some cold nights last winter towards mid January)

Anyway, they have some young palms for sale at not much more than 16 euros each and am tempted to buy  - they have 3 in stock at present !.

Chambeyronia macrocarpa 30-35 cm maceta 12 CM, 16,90 EUR (babypalms.eu)

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So..I have a seedling of what is supposed to be macrocarpa. So far its new leaves are not red. Do they have to be older to make new red leaves or is this one a dud?

 

B4113D22-A261-4E06-86A2-4F07E231D20B.jpeg

Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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28 minutes ago, ruskinPalms said:

So..I have a seedling of what is supposed to be macrocarpa. So far its new leaves are not red. Do they have to be older to make new red leaves or is this one a dud?

 

B4113D22-A261-4E06-86A2-4F07E231D20B.jpeg

Mine had red leaves when young...could be a dud but see what the next leaf does.  Definitely a macrocarpa you have there.

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31 minutes ago, ruskinPalms said:

So..I have a seedling of what is supposed to be macrocarpa. So far its new leaves are not red. Do they have to be older to make new red leaves or is this one a dud?

 

B4113D22-A261-4E06-86A2-4F07E231D20B.jpeg

Mine at that size (watermelon) shows only slightly red on the newest leaf.  Color is definitely there but doesn't last long.

Jon Sunder

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Darn..it’s a dud…oh well I’m sure I’ll still plant it somewhere in the yard. Who knows, maybe the fully green varieties will be recognized as more cold hardy 20 years from now B)

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Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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You just can’t have too many of these. I’ve got like 30 in the ground and I never get tired of their splendor.

41A3967E-E471-4AE7-85E9-968BF3E90A20.thumb.jpeg.80cf922a24baa7499158e82a51701654.jpeg

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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3 hours ago, ruskinPalms said:

Darn..it’s a dud…oh well I’m sure I’ll still plant it somewhere in the yard. Who knows, maybe the fully green varieties will be recognized as more cold hardy 20 years from now B)

I doubt it's a dud. I think they don't turn red until they graduate from bifid to pinnate. Otherwise I have about 10 duds.

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  • 2 weeks later...

First flame.  Here's a little red in the fourth bifid leaf. Got me enthused. This in a relatively shaded, cooler spots compared to my other dozen seedlings.

20210810_065432.jpg

20210810_065419.jpg

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The C macrocarpa "hookeri" form is even attractive when not throwing a new red leaf in my opinion.  Not the same structure as it's close relative C "houailou", but still a graceful palm with those wide leaflets and interesting trunk color.

20210810-BH3I5087.jpg

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20210803-BH3I5010.jpg

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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4 hours ago, Tracy said:

The C macrocarpa "hookeri" form is even attractive when not throwing a new red leaf in my opinion. 

20210803-BH3I5010.jpg

I agree totally. 

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