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What other palms can grow in the Puget sound.area


Love them palms
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3 hours ago, Love them palms said:

Well before I dove into growing Palm trees I should I did more research on which ones were zone Hardy for my area, I found the ones that were zone 8B But I failed To realize that all zone 8B,s are not the same, And also I thought I was convinced that our winters were mild enough for them to survive  Then blam we got hit with a winter weather in February that broke snowfall records here ,the coldest min temp in my neck of the woods from what I checked was only 20F so it wasn't to freezing cold,before  I got  Palm smarter I got a Sylvester, 2 Phoenix canariensis and 1 robusta,  I put the Silvester in the ground in late August And left the rest outside in pots,the Sylvester was abused from my lawn service from their weed wacker really bad.  it was doing ok till February when the storms arrived and instead of putting something cloth over it for protection it put a plastic garbage bag over it (big mistake).its got a very slight green at the base in the spear.so I don't know  If I should pronounce it dead now Right yet. But now I'm stuck with 2 Canary palms and a robusta so gotta do something with them. I should have done more research before diving into purchasing palms.

 

3 hours ago, Love them palms said:

Well I got started when I went to Vegas and S California, since I can't live at either spots for at least until I retire which is another 20 years I figured I would bring it up to me.I am not a big fan of trachycarpus cause everybody and their dogs who have palms up here,I wanted to be different so without doing any research except zone hardiness, not realizing that there are differences in zone 8B,s for a palms survival I dove right in. now being set straight I have learned that there are other feather palms that can grow here that somewhat bulletproof that will be just as beautiful. but I'm still learning 

 

Okay, so I have just checked your record low temperature for Mukilteo and it seems you have experienced 0F (-18C) before, in November of all months. So in theory, you could get an even colder record low in Jan/Feb one year. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of -5F (-20C) occurring in the next 20 years in your location, during mid-winter. It's not likely, but not impossible. There's always a record low being broken each winter, somewhere. 

Taking that into account, I don't think any palm except Sabal minor and a few of the hardier Trachycarpus's can be considered bulletproof in your area. Fortunei, Takil, Ukhrulensis etc should be okay, although some Fortunei (being one of the hardiest types) have still been killed by 5-10F. So that is just something you need to bare in mind. There is a reason that everyone in your area grows Trachy's and not any other palms. Due to your previous record lows and the risk. 
 
But there's nothing wrong with zone pushing and I wish you luck with it. With global warming happening at the rate it is, there's nothing wrong with trying more exotic stuff in your area. I am doing the exact same. I have all sorts of stuff that I have to protect, or bring inside each winter, because they are not hardy enough (palms, cacti, plants, small trees etc). Or I just let them get damaged and have them regrow the following spring. I guess that is also the fun of it though, trying stuff you know is a risk in your climate and keeping them alive. And thriving, ideally.

Persist with the Phoenix's and Butia x Jubaea hybrids, just don't neglect the protection if you do get a very cold spell next winter. Who knows they might thrive and do really well, providing you don't get a 1 in 20 year cold spell hit your area, or a ridiculous low like 5F. You clearly have a lot of enthusiasm which is what matters. And I wouldn't worry too much about the Sylvestris at this stage. Even if it is defoliated, it will probably push out new growth in a few months and recover quite a bit this year. Sylvestris is pretty fast growing, so that helps. The main issue is if you have another back to back cold, snowy period next winter which could potentially finish it off. But fingers crossed that won't happen and the palm will recover this year.

All the best.

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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13 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

 

 

Okay, so I have just checked your record low temperature for Mukilteo and it seems you have experienced 0F (-18C) before, in November of all months. So in theory, you could get an even colder record low in Jan/Feb one year. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of -5F (-20C) occurring in the next 20 years in your location, during mid-winter. It's not likely, but not impossible. There's always a record low being broken each winter, somewhere. 

 

 

That 0F (-18C) only happens here every 100 years, so once in a lifetime event. I can't even remember the last time any 8b location got down to 15F in the last 25 years.  Except maybe Bellingham which is close to the Canadian border.  If you want to look up crazy lows look at Olympia airport all-time low of -8F, now that's crazy cold! That hasn't stopped me from growing Butia. Of course, the airport is 7b and the city of Olympia is 8a.  

Edited by Palm crazy
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1 hour ago, Palm crazy said:

That 0F (-18C) only happens here every 100 years, so once in a lifetime event. I can't even remember the last time any 8b location got down to 15F in the last 25 years.  Except maybe Bellingham which is close to the Canadian border.  If you want to look up crazy lows look at Olympia airport all-time low of -8F, now that's crazy cold! That hasn't stopped me from growing Butia. Of course, the airport is 7b and the city of Olympia is 8a.  

I hear you. But the problem is that you have still experienced those lows before, so it can happen again. 

By all means grow the Butia, Jubaea, Phoenix, Washingtonia etc... but you'll have to be prepared in the event that you get another potential, record breaking, polar vortex. As I have said, there is always somewhere that experiences new record lows each winter. It would almost be naive to say it will never happen again, when it has happened before. 

I have the same issue myself. Our winters are usually pretty mild, with lows only down to 20F (-5C), but in 2010 and 2018 we saw lows of 13F (-10C) here, which will kill off any palm in my garden, except Trachycarpus and Chamaerops. But even more worrying is that my nearest town holds a record low of 2F (-17C) in February 1968, meaning in my location, out in the country, it probably would have got down to at least 0F back then. That probably won't happen again, or not for another 50-100 years as you say, but it can still happen and is something you need to take into account when selecting, planting and protecting palms. 

It hasn't stopped me growing Butia, Jubaea, Phoenix, Washingtonia etc, but the official record low in my village is -13C in 1989 and records only go back to 1983. So that sort of cold could happen again for sure, and when it does, a lot of my palms will probably be toast. The same applies for you guys if your record low is 0F. I'm just being a realist to the risks in our climate. 

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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2 hours ago, Palm crazy said:

I can't even remember the last time any 8b location got down to 15F in the last 25 years.

We did three winters back, I saw 12F one morning, but a temp this low lasted for maybe an hour.  That year was in the top 4 or 5 winters of all time here.  We also broke many records for rainfall that year with a lot of local flooding.  I had a small Chaemerops spear pull, losing the main stem but everything else pulled through just fine.  I didn't see any widespread damage to other's people plants that year, things just looked rough that spring.  There is a big Jubea downtown Portland and I know of another few Chamerops and they all sailed through it as well.  Trachys were unfazed as usual.

Since that historic winter we haven't been below 25F and have not recorded a day where we failed to go above freezing as a daytime high.

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52 minutes ago, Chester B said:

We did three winters back, I saw 12F one morning, but a temp this low lasted for maybe an hour.  That year was in the top 4 or 5 winters of all time here.  We also broke many records for rainfall that year with a lot of local flooding.  I had a small Chaemerops spear pull, losing the main stem but everything else pulled through just fine.  I didn't see any widespread damage to other's people plants that year, things just looked rough that spring.  There is a big Jubea downtown Portland and I know of another few Chamerops and they all sailed through it as well.  Trachys were unfazed as usual.

Since that historic winter we haven't been below 25F and have not recorded a day where we failed to go above freezing as a daytime high.

I was surprised at the max low we had in Feb was only 20F in my area,from the snow and cold we got hit with

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38 minutes ago, Love them palms said:

I was surprised at the max low we had in Feb was only 20F in my area,from the snow and cold we got hit with

My low was 19F while the airport 5-7 miles away saw 5F. You never know by looking at my palm that it got that cold this winter except some of my chameadorea radicalis got broken stems and my big cycad. 

 

1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

I hear you. But the problem is that you have still experienced those lows before, so it can happen again. 

By all means grow the Butia, Jubaea, Phoenix, Washingtonia etc... but you'll have to be prepared in the event that you get another potential, record breaking, polar vortex. As I have said, there is always somewhere that experiences new record lows each winter. It would almost be naive to say it will never happen again, when it has happened before. 

I have the same issue myself. Our winters are usually pretty mild, with lows only down to 20F (-5C), but in 2010 and 2018 we saw lows of 13F (-10C) here, which will kill off any palm in my garden, except Trachycarpus and Chamaerops. But even more worrying is that my nearest town holds a record low of 2F (-17C) in February 1968, meaning in my location, out in the country, it probably would have got down to at least 0F back then. That probably won't happen again, or not for another 50-100 years as you say, but it can still happen and is something you need to take into account when selecting, planting and protecting palms. 

It hasn't stopped me growing Butia, Jubaea, Phoenix, Washingtonia etc, but the official record low in my village is -13C in 1989 and records only go back to 1983. So that sort of cold could happen again for sure, and when it does, a lot of my palms will probably be toast. The same applies for you guys if your record low is 0F. I'm just being a realist to the risks in our climate. 

Pretty much everyone in z8 could have a record low again, so I understand.  Phoenix and some other palm are a stretch to grow here so it was good that you gave your input. 

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1 hour ago, Chester B said:

We did three winters back, I saw 12F one morning, but a temp this low lasted for maybe an hour.  That year was in the top 4 or 5 winters of all time here.  We also broke many records for rainfall that year with a lot of local flooding.  I had a small Chaemerops spear pull, losing the main stem but everything else pulled through just fine.  I didn't see any widespread damage to other's people plants that year, things just looked rough that spring.  There is a big Jubea downtown Portland and I know of another few Chamerops and they all sailed through it as well.  Trachys were unfazed as usual.

Since that historic winter we haven't been below 25F and have not recorded a day where we failed to go above freezing as a daytime high.

I guess it really depends on location, I do know some gardeners that have never been below 17F in their gardens. These are the gardens that grow Brahea armata, Brahea edulis, Sabals causiarum.  A couple of winters ago I saw 16F wonder if that was the same winter you saw 12F I know Portland did have the worst winter back then this year not so much compared to the rest of us.  

I will never forget one winter my low was 30F in December and January then February came and boom 15F all my colorful cordyline died back but did recover.  I now grow all my pretty cordylines in containers and store them in an unheated greenhouse. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
2 hours ago, Trustandi said:

How about Livistona nitida? Is your @Palm crazy still thriving?

Nope, not very hardy for me but did last three good years before I had a 15F winter. 

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24 minutes ago, Palm crazy said:

Nope, not very hardy for me but did last three good years before I had a 15F winter. 

Aw crap.  I got one this year to give it a shot.  At least it was under $20.

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You guys are warm and probably drier in winter than me so try one and see what happens.  My Livistona Chinensis doesn't look too good this spring but it still alive. I am thinking of digging it up and potting up so I can get it to a large size by putting in my unheated greenhouse.  It has been in the ground for 10 years.  

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I am not a fan of livistona chinenesis as a perennial. Sure it comes back each year but such a pain seeing trunks for weeks before the fronds come out. Love it in leaf hardy environments though as it has a neat "weeping" look.

Edited by mdsonofthesouth
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LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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40 minutes ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

I am not a fan of livistona chinenesis as a perennial. Sure it comes back each year but such a pain seeing trunks for weeks before the fronds come out. Love it in leaf hardy environments though as it has a neat "weeping" look.

I totally agree, it a great semi-hardy palm but I like to see it get much bigger with evergreen leaves.  The leaves are awesome when they don't die back. 

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On 3/25/2019 at 10:57 AM, Palm crazy said:

 

 

 

Well I decided to put in BxJ ,BxJxS,super mules-BxJxBXS ,JxS ,JxBxS, T.Nova T princeps, Cordyline Australis and Cordyline australis Red Star and probably some med fan palms.should make an awesome set-up and all should survive great

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If you can get your hands on a somewhat mature Chilean wine palm, I think those are pretty awesome looking palms and they can hang in for the long haul with the PNW climate. The challenge is finding an affordable and remotely mature specimen. The mature ones are usually around $400 for a couple feet of trunk and mature is relative. They take about 30-50 years to reach heights that would impress most people. Still, Tacoma has a nice 5ft. Jubaea near Ruston way that just sits there unprotected and soars through every winter we have.

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Not sure if these have been mentioned yet, but Seattle here chiming in. Chamaedorea microspadix and C. radicalis are hardy here, as are Brahea armata and B. edulis. Parajubaea hybrids should do well too. I don't have one, by Butia x Parajubaea c. should be a safe bet. I have a Parajubaea c. X Jubaea c., but it's not in the ground yet. I think my Arenga engleri is alive... along with an Allagoptera arenaria that had some canopy cover. My Parajubaea torralyi may or may not be alive. Thinking of trying a Rhapsis excelsa under evergreen canopy.

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I forgot to mention Rhapidophyllum hystrix, chamaerops humilis, and Trithrinax campestris are also proven winners here.

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I just ordered one Livistona nitida seedling. We will see how it goes. 

Do you guys know which one is hardier for our area:  Butia odorata x Jubaea or Butia eriospatha? 

 

On 3/21/2014 at 6:14 AM, Eric in Orlando said:

Start to show damage

 

The first group I would estimate they are killed between 16-20F

 

The second group below 22-25F would be fatal

 

The third below 25-26F would kill them.

 

But this can vary, depending on weather/freeze conditions and genetics. Some palms are stronger, others weaker. Just a general guide but not an absolute statement.

 

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  • 1 year later...
On 3/17/2019 at 12:05 PM, Palm crazy said:

I've had really good success with Butia x Queen and Jubaea x Butia. The great thing about hybrids they all don't look the same.  Any Jubaea hybrid will outgrow any phoenix palm here but you should get a few years of enjoyment out of a phoenix 

here it is summer 2020 and here's my feather leaf list I have in my palm garden. A few Jubaea x Butia, large 5 g Jubaea x Butia yatay from patric shaffer as well as a BxJ x Jubaea, Jubaea x BxJ, 4 way super mule- BxJxBxQ,,  Jubaea x Queen , blue Jubaea, 2 regular Jubaea and 2 Butia x Jubaea x Queen. All should do great here in Mukilteo Z8B, 

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On 4/16/2019 at 1:39 PM, matthedlund said:

Not sure if these have been mentioned yet, but Seattle here chiming in. Chamaedorea microspadix and C. radicalis are hardy here, as are Brahea armata and B. edulis. Parajubaea hybrids should do well too. I don't have one, by Butia x Parajubaea c. should be a safe bet. I have a Parajubaea c. X Jubaea c., but it's not in the ground yet. I think my Arenga engleri is alive... along with an Allagoptera arenaria that had some canopy cover. My Parajubaea torralyi may or may not be alive. Thinking of trying a Rhapsis excelsa under evergreen canopy.

have a Chamaedorea radicalism-tree version 

1596422708602570583937938586514.jpg

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On 3/24/2019 at 1:56 PM, Love them palms said:

Well I got started when I went to Vegas and S California, since I can't live at either spots for at least until I retire which is another 20 years I figured I would bring it up to me.I am not a big fan of trachycarpus cause everybody and their dogs who have palms up here,I wanted to be different so without doing any research except zone hardiness, not realizing that there are differences in zone 8B,s for a palms survival I dove right in. now being set straight I have learned that there are other feather palms that can grow here that somewhat bulletproof that will be just as beautiful. but I'm still learning 

Did I say I'm not a big fan of trachycarpus lol 

15964231223817337155725464385173.jpg

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