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What is the most cold hardy Butia palm for a wet year round, cold/cool winter and hot summer climate? I normally get down to around 12-14 degrees Fahrenheit every year, but it gets much colder into the single digits sometimes ~every 5-10  years. I am willing to protect my palm. I live in coastal southeastern Virginia, if anyone knows specifics about this area.

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Alberto, Palm Talk's resident Butia expert from Brazil assures us that Butia eriospatha is the most cold hardy pindo. How much more I'm not sure. However he claims it comes from the coldest range of all the butia.  That being said, they are all quite hardy with the exception of a few rarely cultivates species. 

 

Welcome to Palmtak. 

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44 minutes ago, RJ said:

Alberto, Palm Talk's resident Butia expert from Brazil assures us that Butia eriospatha is the most cold hardy pindo. How much more I'm not sure. However he claims it comes from the coldest range of all the butia.  That being said, they are all quite hardy with the exception of a few rarely cultivates species. 

 

Welcome to Palmtak. 

Thank you!

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There are no butia's that can handle those temps without major protection. Pretty much anything below the high teens will damage any butia & low teens will pretty much kill them.

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Hey, another Virginian! You can get away with a Butia (even one from a place like Lowes) in your location with the occasional Winter protection. You just have to make sure you check the lows well, and it will likely get some form of damage at some point every Winter. I grow one here and they love the Summers. You can also grow palms like Needle Palms, Sabal minor, and even Trachycarpus fortunei (with some possible protection needed when younger, although I have seen ones in York County that apparently get zero protection, you would think that's the case since York County seems warm enough for them in the Winter) with no protection. Also be cautious about plants that just have "good or bad genes." Sometimes you'll get a palm that handles the cold a lot better than you would have thought, and then you'll get another of the same palm and it might not be as strong as the original. 

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PalmTreeDude

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37 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Hey, another Virginian! You can get away with a Butia (even one from a place like Lowes) in your location with the occasional Winter protection. You just have to make sure you check the lows well, and it will likely get some form of damage at some point every Winter. I grow one here and they love the Summers. You can also grow palms like Needle Palms, Sabal minor, and even Trachycarpus fortunei (with some possible protection needed when younger, although I have seen ones in York County that apparently get zero protection, you would think that's the case since York County seems warm enough for them in the Winter) with no protection. Also be cautious about plants that just have "good or bad genes." Sometimes you'll get a palm that handles the cold a lot better than you would have thought, and then you'll get another of the same palm and it might not be as strong as the original. 

Thanks for the tips! I have seen many large plants of all those types in my area. I have a 20 foot windmill in my neighborhood that I’ll have to get a pic of when I get around to it. Apparently it survived last years’ freeze and snowstorm in early January with no protection and basically no damage. I have yet to see a large butia outside of Virginia Beach, but some smaller ones pop up ocasionally around here and some survived the 5 degree freeze last year with some protection so I think I could grow one here. I just didn’t know if you had to have a specific special type for them to survive. As you said, genes matter bc I have seen many yards around here with one dead butia and one perfectly fine. 

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1 hour ago, Laaz said:

There are no butia's that can handle those temps without major protection. Pretty much anything below the high teens will damage any butia & low teens will pretty much kill them.

Thanks for the tip!

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Welcome to Palm Talk,

Typically, Butia odorata starts to see cold damage around 15ºF but will start to die around 12ºF. So if you don't mind the occasional winter protection then you should be fine with planting a Butia.

Have you tried Sabal palmetto yet? They are hardier than Butias and definitely worth a shot in your 8a climate. Just don't buy the hurricane cut ones from Florida. Try to get a potted one that was grown from seed. 

 

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Zone 8a Greenville, NC 

Zone 8b/9a Bluffton, SC

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27 minutes ago, NC_Palms said:

Welcome to Palm Talk,

Typically, Butia odorata starts to see cold damage around 15ºF but will start to die around 12ºF. So if you don't mind the occasional winter protection then you should be fine with planting a Butia.

Have you tried Sabal palmetto yet? They are hardier than Butias and definitely worth a shot in your 8a climate. Just don't buy the hurricane cut ones from Florida. Try to get a potted one that was grown from seed. 

 

Thanks! I am willing to protect a butia on the coldest nights of the year, so I’m probably going to try it. I have a Sabal Palmetto I got 4 years ago as a one leaf strap seedling, but it is in a pot still. It’s been having some rot issues due to moistness unfortunately. I also have a mule palm I got around the same time at around the same size, but am afraid to plant it. I’ll probably plant it this spring, and will probably protect it a lot if it goes below the high teens.  

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5 minutes ago, sevapalms said:

Thanks! I am willing to protect a butia on the coldest nights of the year, so I’m probably going to try it. I have a Sabal Palmetto I got 4 years ago as a one leaf strap seedling, but it is in a pot still. It’s been having some rot issues do to moistness unfortunately. I also have a mule palm I got around the same time at around the same size, but am afraid to plant it. I’ll probably plant it this spring, and will probably protect it a lot if it goes below the high teens.  

The only issue with Sabal palmetto seedlings is that they take FOREVER to really get any size. They'll look like a large Sabal minor for some time. 

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PalmTreeDude

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1 minute ago, PalmTreeDude said:

The only issue with Sabal palmetto seedlings is that they take FOREVER to really get any size. They'll look like a large Sabal minor for some time. 

True. I’ve had mine and it’s pretty much looked the same for 2 years.

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Sabals grow faster in the ground and don't make good potted specimens because of their saxophone roots. They need very deep pots. If your palmetto has stopped growing in its pot, put it in the ground when temps warm up - that should be very soon for you. You will likely be pleasantly surprised how a hot, humid VA summer helps it along. Welcome to PT.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
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Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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58 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Sabals grow faster in the ground and don't make good potted specimens because of their saxophone roots. They need very deep pots. If your palmetto has stopped growing in its pot, put it in the ground when temps warm up - that should be very soon for you. You will likely be pleasantly surprised how a hot, humid VA summer helps it along. Welcome to PT.

Thank you!

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What about butia x jubaea?

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8 hours ago, gilles06 said:

What about butia x jubaea?

Maybe, but I don’t know if it could handle a lot of humidity. It could do well though, especially since I’ve heard that Jubaea has good cold hardiness...

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45 minutes ago, sevapalms said:

Maybe, but I don’t know if it could handle a lot of humidity. It could do well though, especially since I’ve heard that Jubaea has good cold hardiness...

I have tons of humidity year round here, but my Jubaea does absolutely fine. Although my rainfall is generally on the low side, at around 20 inches a year too. 

My two Butia's though, on the other hand, always look a bit worse for wear in my climate. They definitely don't look as pristine and vibrant as the Jubaea. I have no idea why that is. My Butia's seem to take frond damage from the wet-cold in winter and they also take damage during hot dry spells in summer as well. They never seem totally happy.  Whereas the Jubaea seems fine year-round in my climate and doesn't get any damage.

Just my two cents...

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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3 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I have tons of humidity year round here, but my Jubaea does absolutely fine. Although my rainfall is generally on the low side, at around 20 inches a year too. 

My two Butia's though, on the other hand, always look a bit worse for wear in my climate. They definitely don't look as pristine and vibrant as the Jubaea. I have no idea why that is. My Butia's seem to take frond damage from the wet-cold in winter and they also take damage during hot dry spells in summer as well. They never seem totally happy.  Whereas the Jubaea seems fine year-round in my climate and doesn't get any damage.

Just my two cents...

Thanks, I appreciate the tips!

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I planted my first Butia sp. almost 10 years ago (I can't remember the year), and it's still alive.  It has already produced multiple inflorescences/ infructescences.  I have since planted 4 more of what I assume to be Butia odorata, but I'm not sure.  The petioles range in various colors of green, reddish purple, and purple.  They vary in growth rates and frond size as well (from what I've observed).  Maybe I live in a warmer microclimate (I just go by the weather app temperature readings), but they don't receive any damage until the temperature drops below 15 degrees (F).  They typically have spear-pull when the temps approach 12 degrees (F) with the remaining fronds showing damage with temps below 10 degrees (F).  This is just what I have observed using a weather app, so the actual temperatures might not be accurate.  If necessary, I wrap them with lights and burlap to protect them during the brief abnormally cold events that occur every 5 years or so. 

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5 hours ago, SEVA said:

I planted my first Butia sp. almost 10 years ago (I can't remember the year), and it's still alive.  It has already produced multiple inflorescences/ infructescences.  I have since planted 4 more of what I assume to be Butia odorata, but I'm not sure.  The petioles range in various colors of green, reddish purple, and purple.  They vary in growth rates and frond size as well (from what I've observed).  Maybe I live in a warmer microclimate (I just go by the weather app temperature readings), but they don't receive any damage until the temperature drops below 15 degrees (F).  They typically have spear-pull when the temps approach 12 degrees (F) with the remaining fronds showing damage with temps below 10 degrees (F).  This is just what I have observed using a weather app, so the actual temperatures might not be accurate.  If necessary, I wrap them with lights and burlap to protect them during the brief abnormally cold events that occur every 5 years or so. 

Thanks for the tips!

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On 3/17/2019 at 5:21 PM, UK_Palms said:

I have tons of humidity year round here, but my Jubaea does absolutely fine. Although my rainfall is generally on the low side, at around 20 inches a year too. 

My two Butia's though, on the other hand, always look a bit worse for wear in my climate. They definitely don't look as pristine and vibrant as the Jubaea. I have no idea why that is. My Butia's seem to take frond damage from the wet-cold in winter and they also take damage during hot dry spells in summer as well. They never seem totally happy.  Whereas the Jubaea seems fine year-round in my climate and doesn't get any damage.

Just my two cents...

Our winters are very humid and we receive an annual precipitation of around 1200mm, that is rain but also lots of snow. My Jubaea does just fine but needs protection in the coldest of winters. I would not dare plant a Butia.

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On 3/15/2019 at 2:47 PM, sevapalms said:

What is the most cold hardy Butia palm for a wet year round, cold/cool winter and hot summer climate? I normally get down to around 12-14 degrees Fahrenheit every year, but it gets much colder into the single digits sometimes ~every 5-10  years. I am willing to protect my palm. I live in coastal southeastern Virginia, if anyone knows specifics about this area.

Take a look at my temperatures in my signature. The only time my Butia eriospatha experienced damage was when we dropped below 10F. At that point, it's just a crap shoot. Unless you're doing a bunch to protect it, you can just flip a coin. 

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Longview, Texas :: Record Low: -5F, Feb. 16, 2021 :: Borderline 8A/8B :: '06-'07: 18F / '07-'08: 21F / '08-'09: 21F / '09-'10: 14F / '10-'11: 15F / '11-'12: 24F / '12-'13: 23F / '13-'14: 15F / '14-'15: 20F / '15-'16: 27F / '16-'17: 15F / '17-'18: 8F / '18-'19: 23F / '19-'20: 19F / '20-'21: -5F / '21-'22: 20F

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28 minutes ago, buffy said:

Take a look at my temperatures in my signature. The only time my Butia eriospatha experienced damage was when we dropped below 10F. At that point, it's just a crap shoot. Unless you're doing a bunch to protect it, you can just flip a coin. 

Thanks! If I get a butia, I will probably protect it under around 15 degrees just in case.

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2 hours ago, sevapalms said:

Thanks! If I get a butia, I will probably protect it under around 15 degrees just in case.

If you go with the B. eriospatha, that's a good plan.  If a small B. odorata (less than 5-gal size) I'd protect it below 20° F for the first winter or two.

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Jon Sunder

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13 minutes ago, Fusca said:

If you go with the B. eriospatha, that's a good plan.  If a small B. odorata (less than 5-gal size) I'd protect it below 20° F for the first winter or two.

Thanks! That sounds like a good idea.

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On 3/17/2019 at 12:21 PM, UK_Palms said:

I have tons of humidity year round here, but my Jubaea does absolutely fine. Although my rainfall is generally on the low side, at around 20 inches a year too. 

My two Butia's though, on the other hand, always look a bit worse for wear in my climate. They definitely don't look as pristine and vibrant as the Jubaea. I have no idea why that is. My Butia's seem to take frond damage from the wet-cold in winter and they also take damage during hot dry spells in summer as well. They never seem totally happy.  Whereas the Jubaea seems fine year-round in my climate and doesn't get any damage.

Just my two cents...

 

Yeah in our neck of the woods, aka the DMV, 45+ inches per year is the norm and with years like 2018 its more like 70! Our humidity rarely if ever drops bellow 50%, and likes to stay at 70% to upper 80s in the warmer months.  Dry or Mediterranean plants dont much like the wetness, save for chamaerops humilis which does well here til it sees bellow 8-9F then it gives up the ghost...

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LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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3 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

Yeah in our neck of the woods, aka the DMV, 45+ inches per year is the norm and with years like 2018 its more like 70! Our humidity rarely if ever drops bellow 50%, and likes to stay at 70% to upper 80s in the warmer months.  Dry or Mediterranean plants dont much like the wetness, save for chamaerops humilis which does well here til it sees bellow 8-9F then it gives up the ghost...

DMV? Hell on earth...? So where about's are you located exactly? lol 

Yeah, Chamaerops Humilis seems to thrive here in the UK. It seems to grow quicker than the Trachycarpus Fortunei and recover quicker and better from any winter yellowing or damage. Despite being bulletproof (temperature-wise), my Trachy's still tend to go quite yellow here in the UK, whereas the Chamaerops stay almost entirely green. They seem to grow twice as fast as any Fortunei as well. Trachycarpus and Chamaerops are the two main go to cold-hardy palms for anyone in cooler, wetter environments. 

Despite the year-round high humidity in the UK, it is not uncommon to have 90F days in summer where the humidity drops right down to 10-20%. But the humidity will still rebound to 80-90% at night, even on the hottest, driest days. And there is no such thing as hot-wet weather in the UK, like they have in much of the US. It is either cool/mild and wet here, due to the Atlantic weather systems (which we have most of the year), or it is hot and dry due to the Saharan/Mediterranean weather systems. So if the temperature goes above 75F, there is almost no chance of it being accompanied with rain. Our hot weather comes from the south and brings with it high pressure with clear sunny skies. Then when an Atlantic system moves in, it brings rain and cooler temps. 

The humid, hot-wet summer conditions seem to cause a lot of problems for palms in the eastern and southern parts of the US. An issue I don't have in the southeast of the UK. 

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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DMV = Delaware Maryland Virginia. As for chamaerops recovery I'll agree with you they do recover quicker than trachycarpus here too. In fact mine put out inflorecence (sp) in early mid April despite seeing HORRIBLE 95% deformation and started pushing growth a hair earlier too. It's for sure earned a spot in my garden along since some other choice cold hardy palms. But sadly I think this winter did mine in, but I'll wait til late April to pass final judgment. 

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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57 minutes ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

DMV = Delaware Maryland Virginia. As for chamaerops recovery I'll agree with you they do recover quicker than trachycarpus here too. In fact mine put out inflorecence (sp) in early mid April despite seeing HORRIBLE 95% deformation and started pushing growth a hair earlier too. It's for sure earned a spot in my garden along since some other choice cold hardy palms. But sadly I think this winter did mine in, but I'll wait til late April to pass final judgment. 

Oh right, thanks for clarifying that for me. Coming from the UK, it would never of occurred to me that DMV stood for Delaware, Maryland & Virginia.

So you're pretty far north then, as I was assuming you might have been in the Carolina's, or Georgia, or something. No doubt you get some pretty cold spells up there a few times each year. If you can't get Chamaerops through back to back winters, I suppose Trachycarpus's would be your only bet. Fortunei are pretty bulletproof, as you probably already know, but I have heard of them being defoliated in Europe by 10F and outright killed by 0-5F. I suppose that is only in places where they have extreme cold once every 3-4 years though (France, Germany, southern Sweden), so maybe it catches the palm off guard. They might be more accustomed to it in your climate. I don't know what your experience is with Fortunei in extreme polar events? Some specimens seem to do much better than others, much like CIDP in my climate. 

Fingers crossed your Chamaerops pulls through man :shaka-2:

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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17 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Oh right, thanks for clarifying that for me. Coming from the UK, it would never of occurred to me that DMV stood for Delaware, Maryland & Virginia.

 

That's Okay most folks in the US think it stands for the "Department of Motor Vehicles" 

Unless of course you're from Massachusetts and then it's the "RMV" ;)

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I planted two Butias odorata that came in 24" boxes three years ago.  That first winter they experienced 12F and 72 hours below freezing.  Both sailed through and looked great with no protection.  When the weather warmed up one started turning brown from the lower fronds up, and although never spear pulled it didn't recover.  The other showed zero damage.  So there does seem to be some variability with individual specimens.

However that was one of the coldest winters on record and I would expect that if this occurred each winter it could produce a different result.  We rarely have a day not get above freezing.

I was in Virginia beach this last week staying at the Hilton.  They had so many palms planted on the beach side and to be honest they all looked terrible.  The butias had 30-50% burn and the palmettos all had at least 50% burn of the few fronds they had.  Only the minors still looked decent.

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1 hour ago, Chester B said:

I planted two Butias odorata that came in 24" boxes three years ago.  That first winter they experienced 12F and 72 hours below freezing.  Both sailed through and looked great with no protection.  When the weather warmed up one started turning brown from the lower fronds up, and although never spear pulled it didn't recover.  The other showed zero damage.  So there does seem to be some variability with individual specimens.

However that was one of the coldest winters on record and I would expect that if this occurred each winter it could produce a different result.  We rarely have a day not get above freezing.

I was in Virginia beach this last week staying at the Hilton.  They had so many palms planted on the beach side and to be honest they all looked terrible.  The butias had 30-50% burn and the palmettos all had at least 50% burn of the few fronds they had.  Only the minors still looked decent.

Thanks for the tips! Butia seem to be really variable like you said. Virginia Beach on the beachside is very tough on palms as well. The wind is pretty much constant and the salt doesn’t help. The minor grows low to the ground so I assume that helps. I don’t know why they would be burned by cold this winter since the coldest it got here was 18-20 degrees, and it was probably warmer by the coast. They hurricane cut the palmettos, so that probably doesn’t help at all. They were probably new plants also, because last winter was really bad, getting down below freezing for a week and lows between 0-10 degrees.  As you get away from the coast though, a lot more palms can grow and become established. Inland in Virginia Beach, I have seen established palmettos, Sabal minor, butia, trachycarpus, and needle palms, and Spanish moss is native. I guess it just really depends on where in the city you are, and what protection you provide.

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The palmettos looked to me like hurricane cut palms planted last year.  The ones on the hotel grounds had more fronds and some protection so did look like they had been there longer, with one sporting seeds and overall in better shape.  

Unfortunately it was so cold, windy and rainy while I was there and was stuck in meetings from 7:30am to about midnight each day so had no time to go outside and take a look around or snap some pics.  For reference the hotel was right beside the big Neptune statue.  The plantings were really nice and I'm sure by June/July things will be looking really good again.

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1 hour ago, Chester B said:

The palmettos looked to me like hurricane cut palms planted last year.  The ones on the hotel grounds had more fronds and some protection so did look like they had been there longer, with one sporting seeds and overall in better shape.  

Unfortunately it was so cold, windy and rainy while I was there and was stuck in meetings from 7:30am to about midnight each day so had no time to go outside and take a look around or snap some pics.  For reference the hotel was right beside the big Neptune statue.  The plantings were really nice and I'm sure by June/July things will be looking really good again.

Yeah, it’s been really bad weather here lately :(

Thanks for the location of the hotel! I’ll have to check it out the next time I’m down there.

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On 3/21/2019 at 9:05 PM, UK_Palms said:

Oh right, thanks for clarifying that for me. Coming from the UK, it would never of occurred to me that DMV stood for Delaware, Maryland & Virginia.

So you're pretty far north then, as I was assuming you might have been in the Carolina's, or Georgia, or something. No doubt you get some pretty cold spells up there a few times each year. If you can't get Chamaerops through back to back winters, I suppose Trachycarpus's would be your only bet. Fortunei are pretty bulletproof, as you probably already know, but I have heard of them being defoliated in Europe by 10F and outright killed by 0-5F. I suppose that is only in places where they have extreme cold once every 3-4 years though (France, Germany, southern Sweden), so maybe it catches the palm off guard. They might be more accustomed to it in your climate. I don't know what your experience is with Fortunei in extreme polar events? Some specimens seem to do much better than others, much like CIDP in my climate. 

Fingers crossed your Chamaerops pulls through man :shaka-2:

 

Thanks! I heard and modified this statement which describes our climate to a "T": 360 days of trunking palm weather and 5 days of loblolly/magnolia/yucca weather. That describes most years in the last decade for sure.

Edited by mdsonofthesouth

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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3 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

Thanks! I heard and modified this statement which describes our climate to a "T": 360 days of trunking palm weather and 5 days of loblolly/magnolia/yucca weather. That describes most years in the last decade for sure.

That really seems to describe the climate of your area really well! Fortunately for many areas in the coastal mid-atlantic like the southern delmarva/va beach area it’s been more mild that many places further inland, but it’s been a really variable decade with some really cold winters that would harm most palms. That’s probably why you don’t see a lot of old trunking palms besides trachycarpus in Maryland/Virginia, especially after the last 2 winters.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I had what I suspect was a yatay next to a brick wall not far from a dryer vent.  It was overall maybe 12 feet tall when the temps dropped to 2 F and eventually (slowly) killed it over the next several months.  It was fine for many years ( > 10) but the temps didn't drop below 8 - 10 F during that time, if I recall.  Sighting definitely helped.  Located in Yorktown, VA at the time.  Butias northwest of Norfolk really do require protection many winters.

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God bless America...

and everywhere else too.

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6 hours ago, VA Jeff said:

I had what I suspect was a yatay next to a brick wall not far from a dryer vent.  It was overall maybe 12 feet tall when the temps dropped to 2 F and eventually (slowly) killed it over the next several months.  It was fine for many years ( > 10) but the temps didn't drop below 8 - 10 F during that time, if I recall.  Sighting definitely helped.  Located in Yorktown, VA at the time.  Butias northwest of Norfolk really do require protection many winters.

Thanks for the tips! I don’t think I’ve ever heard of that big a butia NW of Norfolk/VA Beach, so that’s really impressive. Were you near Williamsburg or Poquoson in York County? I’d assume that would make a difference given that Williamsburg has less of a coastal influence. I’m probably buying my butia over the summer, and when I do I’ll likely buy protection with it for occasional extreme cold weather.

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The brick wall faced SE.  We have 9 people in my famiily, so the dryer cranks out a lot of heat yearround.  Had I protected it slightly, it would still be around.  Of course the new owners would probably not protect it though.  The address is 115 Daphne Dr., Yorktown, if you're interested.  No butias left, but a number of mature sabals and needles. 

Edited by VA Jeff

God bless America...

and everywhere else too.

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9 hours ago, VA Jeff said:

The brick wall faced SE.  We have 9 people in my famiily, so the dryer cranks out a lot of heat yearround.  Had I protected it slightly, it would still be around.  Of course the new owners would probably not protect it though.  The address is 115 Daphne Dr., Yorktown, if you're interested.  No butias left, but a number of mature sabals and needles. 

Thanks for the information! It gives me some confidence that I can grow a butia here(with protection), given your house was close to mine. I will check out the mature sabal and needles too. That would be interesting, given that north of Norfolk/VA Beach sabals aren’t that common.

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I don't own the house anymore.  I dug up a few palms when I left.  I tried digging up more needles, unsuccessfully.  I had a few other butias at one time or another, but they all perished.  There is a stump of a chamaerops in the front that survived maybe a decade, but struggled often.  I was able to get queen palms and CIDPs through a few winters in makeshift plastic coverings, but lack of supplemental heat and high winds took there toll.

I have seen a few trunked palmettoes in Poquoson before, but I forget which road they were on.  I remember seeing minors on the way to Messick Point.  And then there is Grandview Beach, where you can occasionally see butias, but also huge agaves, if they're still around.

God bless America...

and everywhere else too.

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