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What was your lowest temperature this winter?


NC_Palms

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3 hours ago, RJ said:

That's a near all time record high pressure sitting over you currently. 1050mb 

I'm currently registering 1047mb right now, but I recorded 1051mb earlier today. That HAS to be a record for me. No wind. No clouds, extremely dry, sunny and pretty cold. Almost like high desert conditions here over the past 48 hours. 

I know London has broken it's all time pressure record as well, with recordings there going back over 300 years. If this high pressure coincided with summer, we would potentially be looking at record high temperatures. We saw that in July last year. Unfortunately it's mid-winter though, causing very cold and dry conditions.

We're already down to 29F again at 1am here under the clear skies and high pressure system. Not expecting to drop below 27-28F though as cloud cover moves in later tonight. But we might struggle to get above 40F tomorrow here, so it could be the coldest/lowest maximum of this winter. 

 

 

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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Bottomed out at 25 @ my rental home, 29 at my property for the future house. Supposed to be about the same tonight then warming back up. 

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46.4F this morning but that will be short lived. Predicted Wed.: 36F

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Palm beach county has been issued a Wind Chill Advisory for tonight. Supposed to dip to low-mid 40's. Frostbite? Really? In South Florida? The Iguanas will be stopped in their tracks wherever they are. Our low last night was like 58.

From the National Weather Service.

"Action Recommended: Make preparations per the instructions

Issued by: Miami - FL, US, National Weather Service,

...WIND CHILL ADVISORY REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM 7 PM THIS EVENING TO 9 AM EST WEDNESDAY... * WHAT...Wind chills are forecast to range from the mid 20s to mid 30s. * WHERE...Across South Florida. * WHEN...Tonight into Wednesday Morning. PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS... A Wind Chill Advisory means that very cold air and strong winds will combine to generate low wind chills. This will result in frost bite and lead to hypothermia if precautions are not taken. If you must venture outdoors, make sure you wear a hat and gloves. &&"

Short cold period though so hopefully it won't kill off all the tropical fish like the 2010 winters that had longer cold spells.

 

 

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yep hopefully this wont be another 2010, I remember seeing big dead grouper on the shores of tampa bay.  It was just after we moved here and we were walking on the beach and there were (4) 3' long grouper washed up near the bay entrance.  If they get trapped in shallow bay water and cant escape the cold they are goners.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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We dropped down to 26F last night under the clear skies, with a fairly heavy frost. But without a cloud in the sky, we were able to warm up to 48F here today. It looks like that will probably be the coldest nighttime low of winter now, hopefully. We have a low pressure Atlantic system moving in later tonight with a warming trend developing as the week goes on. The forecasts suggest we'll remain frost free for the rest of January and into early February, by which point we should be warming up anyway as we move into spring. 

I'm amazed to see that east central London around the city Airport only bottomed out at 37-38F last night. That's 12F warmer than my inland location. It seems frosts are becoming a thing of the past in central and eastern London. They appear to be a solid 10a zone for the second year in a row. London City airport is borderline 10b this winter. The lowest they have seen so far is 35F.

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

'm amazed to see that east central London around the city Airport only bottomed out at 37-38F last night. That's 12F warmer than my inland location. It seems frosts are becoming a thing of the past in central and eastern London. They appear to be a solid 10a zone for the second year in a row. London City airport is borderline 10b this winter. The lowest they have seen so far is 35F.

Time to start planting Royals, Bangalows, Kings and Queens (pun intended) all throughout London town!

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1 minute ago, sipalms said:

 

Time to start planting Royals, Bangalows, Kings and Queens (pun intended) all throughout London town!

:lol2: Well at this rate, they'll be growing Coconuts along the Thames by 2050.

But on a serious note, that part of central London saw 25F in Feb 2018 during our last polar vortex. Despite central London only seeing lows of 33F last winter and 35F so far this winter. So unless global warming has accelerated massively over the past 2-3 years, Bangalows, Royals and Kings still don't stand a chance long term.

Queens though do pretty good for me here even, far inland, 35 miles outside of central London. I have a Queen that has reached 6-7ft, and I know of several others that are growing around London. A few Kings as well, but those Kings obviously got protected in Feb 2018. My own King got burnt bad from -2C / 28F. 

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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38.7F this morning on the Isabelle Canal. Lowest in years.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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18 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Queens though do pretty good for me here even, far inland, 35 miles outside of central London. I have a Queen that has reached 6-7ft, and I know of several others that are growing around London.

I would dearly dearly love to see picutres of mature, in ground, unprotected Queens in London/UK.

Are you able to source any?

My 4 Queens are going great guns here but get collateral damage every winter. It would give me great hope to see established large ones in London.

Here's a beauty in a Christchurch backyard that is over 6m high top to bottom and putting on great growth.

20200120_155144.thumb.jpg.0bdf2dd0effdf3136ba2f94e166a530c.jpg

 

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5.8C/ 42.44F Jan 10th, 2020

But these fellers keep pushing on.

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

5.8C/ 42.44F Jan 10th, 2020

But these fellers keep pushing on.

 

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20200122_151405.jpg

What day temps you getting? 

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47 minutes ago, palmad Merc said:

What day temps you getting? 

Except for the past two days, 70F+

It's been in the low 60's when it's foggy. 

But in any case, at dawn it's been in the low 50's

Edited by GottmitAlex
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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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@sipalms You're not going to find any large, mature Queens in London or southern England as the few specimens that exist here have only been present for say 5 years at most. Nobody was planting them 10 years ago. People weren't even planting Chamaerops 15 years ago, thinking it was unreliable here. But we now know that Chamaerops thrives here and is fully hardy. They are everywhere now. It may be a similar story with Queens, particularly around London. There are bigger specimens present than the ones I have uploaded, but I have just made this post on a whim to show you some of the Queens here.

There will no doubt be more of them, and certainly larger specimens, in the coming years though. Queens are proving to survive here and are coming through mild winters undamaged. In fact none of these pictures attached are from London, rather locations that are further inland, outside of the big urban heat islands like London, where they have survived multiple winters. That of course bodes even better for their long term survival here. With our ever warming climate here, these will become more common, especially in gardens with good microclimates. We just need another 5 years I reckon to start getting bigger specimens established up here. 

Notice the small Queen seedling growing out of the patio, shown in 2013, then again in 2019 having grown considerably since then (last two pics). 

Syagrus.jpg

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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34.3f here in Westchase. Other stations in the area showed 33f so mine may have read slightly warm due to the lanai.

~37f at my property in Sarasota County judging by the nearby stations in Venice.

.

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On 1/20/2020 at 3:58 PM, UK_Palms said:

No idea why the last post was in such large font. I typed it out normally. :mellow:

Anway, my lowest this winter so far still stands at 27F.

Looks like climate warming has turned one gear faster since a few years again. 
I have had more really mild winters but after the past 2/3 years with all kind of heat records, freak summers it is quite bizarre to see a winter like this again. 
As I work in the plant business you clearly see nature is running faster and faster.  If February will not turn could we see a green nature pretty quick this year. 

Edited by Exotic Life
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Southwest

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Blooming has started in December in Northeastern Europe. Should have been around March or April. Bad news for next year yield. 

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On 1/21/2020 at 4:20 PM, Palmaceae said:

42.1 this morning in St. Pete.

34.9 a couple nights ago. Missed a 10b winter so far by .1 degree! :D

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Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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27 minutes ago, Palmaceae said:

34.9 a couple nights ago. Missed a 10b winter so far by .1 degree! :D

Technically .2... My understanding is that zones change at .1 over so 35.0 is 10a and 35.1 is 10b. 

.

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2 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Technically .2... My understanding is that zones change at .1 over so 35.0 is 10a and 35.1 is 10b. 

lol :D

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Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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On 1/23/2020 at 2:04 PM, Exotic Life said:

Looks like climate warming has turned one gear faster since a few years again. 
I have had more really mild winters but after the past 2/3 years with all kind of heat records, freak summers it is quite bizarre to see a winter like this again. 
As I work in the plant business you clearly see nature is running faster and faster.  If February will not turn could we see a green nature pretty quick this year. 

Well it's definitely not the same climate that we had 20 years ago.

It is shifting from a temperate / oceanic climate towards a warm-summer Mediterranean climate type. Winters are both milder and wetter here, whereas summers are hotter and drier now.

East central London and the south coast of England are still borderline 10b zones this winter and were 10a last winter. The area around London City Airport still hasn't dropped below 34-35F this winter. Doubt it will now.  That is crazy given that London is at 51N. You would expect those sort of winter lows a few miles inland at 31N.

I am out in the rural countryside, 35 miles inland from the coast. The lowest I have seen here is 26F, making me 9b this winter. I also recorded 100F on two separate occasions last summer, July 23rd and August 26th. Parts of London were even hotter though.

My total rainfall for 2019 was 18.7 inches, up from 16.9 inches in 2018. I figure your rainfall was comparatively low too, given the spring/summer droughts in northwestern Europe. Do you think we will experience these droughts for a 3rd consecutive year? I know you guys are also experiencing the erratic rainfalls and spring/summer droughts, as well as the general warming trend.

It's clearly not a 'temperate oceanic' climate anymore, so to speak, given that Washingtonia Filifera and Phoenix Dactylifera are now able to grow here. That was unthinkable back in the 1990's even. Not to mention the various cacti that also grow well here with our warm, dry summers and mild, wet winters.

Clearly not your standard 'temperate oceanic' climate.

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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Thus far, 32.4F

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Holding steady at a 9a winter so far but have had plenty of low 20s and the surrounding area has seen handful of upper teens. My immediate area is usually milder than areas to my east, west, North and mostly just south as well. Plenty of time to shatter that though so I'm not holding my breath and usually we are good for a few teens on a normal winter. So far it's been a normal winter for us with some abnormal high streaks. Normal in that our temps have been less extremely cold like the past 9 years and more aligned with the 25 to 45f norms for this time of year. It seems mild compared to the last decade where we have received a lot of abnormal cold spikes and spells that have lasted longer than I can remember in my 36 years on this rock.

 

So it's been nice to have normal again even if February can still shock us. 

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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On 1/27/2020 at 11:27 AM, mdsonofthesouth said:

Holding steady at a 9a winter so far but have had plenty of low 20s and the surrounding area has seen handful of upper teens. My immediate area is usually milder than areas to my east, west, North and mostly just south as well. Plenty of time to shatter that though so I'm not holding my breath and usually we are good for a few teens on a normal winter. So far it's been a normal winter for us with some abnormal high streaks. Normal in that our temps have been less extremely cold like the past 9 years and more aligned with the 25 to 45f norms for this time of year. It seems mild compared to the last decade where we have received a lot of abnormal cold spikes and spells that have lasted longer than I can remember in my 36 years on this rock.

 

So it's been nice to have normal again even if February can still shock us. 

Normal? What on gods green earth are you talking about this winter has been remarkably warm in Maryland, likely a top 10. As for zone 9A, outside of the DC UHI, I doubt anywhere else in Maryland/NOVA area has ever seen a zone 9A winter period. This is uncharted waters for your area if you finish off like that.

 

As for UK_Palms I won't even begin to address the silliness and absolute absurdity of the statements he tries to pass off as fact.

Edited by PalmsNC
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On 1/27/2020 at 8:27 AM, mdsonofthesouth said:

So it's been nice to have normal again even if February can still shock us. 

I have to agree with @PalmsNC above. If your zone is classified as 7A according to your sig above, how on earth is a 9A winter your currently having considered "normal"? Running 2 zones above your actual zone is in fact ANYTHING but normal. Enjoy, but this is not a "normal" winter if it's been like a 9A winter.

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On 1/29/2020 at 1:02 PM, NorCalKing said:

I have to agree with @PalmsNC above. If your zone is classified as 7A according to your sig above, how on earth is a 9A winter your currently having considered "normal"? Running 2 zones above your actual zone is in fact ANYTHING but normal. Enjoy, but this is not a "normal" winter if it's been like a 9A winter.

 

On 1/29/2020 at 11:02 AM, PalmsNC said:

Normal? What on gods green earth are you talking about this winter has been remarkably warm in Maryland, likely a top 10. As for zone 9A, outside of the DC UHI, I doubt anywhere else in Maryland/NOVA area has ever seen a zone 9A winter period. This is uncharted waters for your area if you finish off like that.

 

As for UK_Palms I won't even begin to address the silliness and absolute absurdity of the statements he tries to pass off as fact.

Usually we don't dip bellow 15f very often but it happens just about every year. Single digits are pretty rare as well but the last 10 years they have nearly happened every year. The area has seen teens so zone 8 temps that's not unheard of for a normal winter. As I stated the highs have been above average here and there and yes if I finish winter at 20.2f it will be an oddity but I highly doubt that will be the case. Our winter averages are, depending on the area, 22 to 26f for lows and 41 to 45f for highs. As of now those are the numbers we are seeing with some nights in the teens some places. But again as I stated we have had some warm streaks too... I'm not claiming that a 9a winter is normal just that our lows and highs are in line with averages... I'm in a cold humid subtropic and not claiming that I'm a different climate than what I am geeze.

Edited by mdsonofthesouth
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LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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On 1/27/2020 at 8:27 AM, mdsonofthesouth said:

So it's been nice to have normal again

I hear you, but when I read the above quote it indicated this is a typical winter for you. For example, I'm located in 9B if I were having a 11B (Hawaii) type winter, I wouldn't be saying it's nice to have things normal again lol

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On 1/29/2020 at 4:02 PM, PalmsNC said:

As for UK_Palms I won't even begin to address the silliness and absolute absurdity of the statements he tries to pass off as fact.

You probably don't like the fact that I am pointing out that my climate is changing. Both the temperature and rainfall pattern has shifted dramatically since the year 2000 here. The change has been especially pronounced over the past 2-3 years.

I'm 9b here this winter. Suburban London is still 10a and east central London is just about a 10b zone still. The lowest they've seen this winter is 35F in places. At 51N of the equator, a true temperate oceanic climate would not see lows of 35F and highs of 100F in a year. Combined with just 18-20 inches of rain. Not at this latitude.

I have left my Chambeyronia Macrocarpa outdoors here this winter. Plus I wouldn't have Washingtonia Filifera, Phoenix Dactylifera and cacti growing well outdoors here if I was a true temperate, oceanic climate at 51N. I am obviously warmer and drier year-round, especially in spring/summer, then I used to be. And more so than you will admit. 

I think the size and diversity of the palms popping up around southern England is a testament to that. Something that wouldn't have been possible even 25 years ago.

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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On 1/31/2020 at 11:12 AM, NorCalKing said:

I hear you, but when I read the above quote it indicated this is a typical winter for you. For example, I'm located in 9B if I were having a 11B (Hawaii) type winter, I wouldn't be saying it's nice to have things normal again lol

 

Yeah lol didn't mean the 9a low meant the typical temps this winter. Usually by now we'd have 1 or 2 BAD nights under our belt per the last 8 or so winters (save for 2016/2017). But we still have February and that can be almost as bad as January so we will likely get hit good. But it has been nice seeing my strap leaf chamaerops humilis var cerifera doing well unprotected.

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LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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What would be the American scale zoning for mid winter average temps lows of 48 fahrenheit, highs 65 fahrenheit? 

Edited by palmad Merc
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1 hour ago, palmad Merc said:

What would be the American scale zoning for mid winter average temps lows of 48 fahrenheit, highs 65 fahrenheit? 

Hardiness zones are based on the lowest temperature you will see on average during winter. Hypothetically speaking, if your winter lowest is typically say 40F, then you would be zone 11a. Winter lows of 40-45F constitute an 11a zone, which I suspect you are in. Sydney is typically an 11a zone. With the western, inland suburbs being 10b. 

If you're still unsure, you'll have to find out your absolute lowest temperature across the year, on average, and check it against a hardiness zone map which you can easily find online.  I hope this helps. 

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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2 hours ago, palmad Merc said:

What would be the American scale zoning for mid winter average temps lows of 48 fahrenheit, highs 65 fahrenheit? 

 

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18 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

Yeah lol didn't mean the 9a low meant the typical temps this winter. Usually by now we'd have 1 or 2 BAD nights under our belt per the last 8 or so winters (save for 2016/2017). But we still have February and that can be almost as bad as January so we will likely get hit good. But it has been nice seeing my strap leaf chamaerops humilis var cerifera doing well unprotected.

Fingers crossed! It certainly has been a solid winter on the East coast. Here out West, we are running pretty normal (maybe slightly above). Thankfully in another few weeks the threat of "real" cold passes. For us this upcoming Tues/Wed mornings look to be the last frost threats for a while, and possibly the winter as the days are certainly getting longer, and that sun angle is having it's say!:D

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On 2/1/2020 at 2:17 PM, UK_Palms said:

You probably don't like the fact that I am pointing out that my climate is changing. Both the temperature and rainfall pattern has shifted dramatically since the year 2000 here. The change has been especially pronounced over the past 2-3 years.

I'm 9b here this winter. Suburban London is still 10a and east central London is just about a 10b zone still. The lowest they've seen this winter is 35F in places. At 51N of the equator, a true temperate oceanic climate would not see lows of 35F and highs of 100F in a year. Combined with just 18-20 inches of rain. Not at this latitude.

I have left my Chambeyronia Macrocarpa outdoors here this winter. Plus I wouldn't have Washingtonia Filifera, Phoenix Dactylifera and cacti growing well outdoors here if I was a true temperate, oceanic climate at 51N. I am obviously warmer and drier year-round, especially in spring/summer, then I used to be. And more so than you will admit. 

I think the size and diversity of the palms popping up around southern England is a testament to that. Something that wouldn't have been possible even 25 years ago.

Congratulations on the UK having 10b, 10a and even 9b climatic zones! What a great achievement. It will be amazing to visit in a few years time. It'll feel like south Florida no doubt.

Too much sarcasm for me.

Wouldn't it be more balanced to talk about the fact that most of southern UK struggles to get double digit highs and terrible sun stats for most of winter, let alone the rest of the year??

I hate digging into this fight all over again but frankly this spouting on and on about UK's amazing climate is just plain laughable.

Is it some kind of small man syndrome, where you're trying to catch up to the big boys Australia/California / Southern USA/ Northern NZ / Mediterranean, or did it not occur to you that if your climate is changing this fast from a temperate oceanic to hot / semi arid / desert / mediterranean / humid subtropical (all terms you've used), that everyone else's climate is as well, to the same degree? Or is there some kind of hole sitting above the UK that has caused it to suddenly receive a giant mass of heat that no one else gets?

By the way, am I correct in thinking that some of the islands off Scotland have zone 10 climates as well? Why do palms not grow that great there?

The USDA climate zone, as the name suggests, is really only useful for continental USA (or other continental climates like Australia). There's dozens of 10a or 10b places around NZ near water but that doesn't mean a thing for trying to grow a coconut. We all know that applying the USDA zones to places surrounded by water is slightly inaccurate. If it was accurate then heck, I'd plant our entire beachfront out with zone 10 palms with my own cash and buy a condo on the beach just to enjoy the view. Stupid investment right?

We ask you for photos of large established Queens (as you so frequently mention 'thrive' in the UK). We get a pile of photos of non-trunking seedlings that look like they're strategically placed under eaves, and no one knows their age or if they're alive and thriving or dead now.

We get posts of dozens of phoenix canariensis which don't show anything that we don't already know, that they will grow as long as temps don't drop to nearly -10C. Same with washingtonia. 

We get posts of dry grass in a field, and a small forest fire, and some accumulated dust on a pavement corner, and get told that your climate is now semi-arid desert or something.

We get posts of photos of your home thermometer showing amazing heat stats. Everyone on here knows that while home thermometers are useful, they're no substitute for official recording devices.

What we don't get is any kind of balanced reality.  The reality is that the UK, may record some hot temperatures, it may record some warm winters (or even warm winters several times in a row), and it may have some places that don't freeze. But it is generally (let's talk actual factual averages here) a cool climate. Nothing like Southern California or Australia or Greece which are warm to hot climates.

Do you really, honestly believe that in a period of less than 10 years, the UK is now suddenly a prime spot for growing heat loving, cold hating palms like Syagrus and Archontophoenix? Has it somehow magically slipped down the globe 15 degrees of latitude?

Or is there a small, yes maybe a very teeny weeny pathetically small chance, that it's possible that a serious freeze that has occurred before, could occur again? And would they just grow so slowly over the dark damp winters to make them a satisfying investment/addition to anyone's garden?

I don't like talking down to people. I'm all for positivity and zone pushing. I'm not talking down to you from a me v you climate perspective anyway, because I'm from a very similar climate to you. But we don't need continue, cringeworthy spouting of absurd climatic achievements that are not helpful to actual growers. 

What if we took all your climate claims and made a giant advertising poster, and stuck it in the landscape section of every garden centre in London and southern UK, beneath a massive rack of 9a, 9b and 10+ palms. They'd sell out, right? Would your claims be fair and just to the poor buyers of all the queens and bangalows and every other type of sensitive palm who finds it dies after a one off freeze, or pushes out 1 or two fronds every season?

 

I know I've ignited a huge bonfire here. But going by some of the DM's I've received from other users cringing at these claims I don't think I'm alone in the above sentiments. Go ahead and attack me or ban me if you want. Send me abusive messages if you want...I don't care. We're just wanting reality and constructive discussion not nonstop climate selling garble that is likely a long distance from reality.

If you ask me right now what the number one proof of your claims would be, it would be to plant out your entire garden with unprotected zone 9a, 9b and 10a palms and send us a picture once done. I'll help you pick the species if you want. Then progress update on here quarterly. I genuinely would love to spend the next 10 years observing what happens. Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong?

Edited by sipalms
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12 minutes ago, sipalms said:

Congratulations on the UK having 10b, 10a and even 9b climatic zones! What a great achievement. It will be amazing to visit in a few years time. It'll feel like south Florida no doubt.

Too much sarcasm for me.

Wouldn't it be more balanced to talk about the fact that most of southern UK struggles to get double digit highs and terrible sun stats for most of winter, let alone the rest of the year??

I hate digging into this fight all over again but frankly this spouting on and on about UK's amazing climate is just plain laughable.

Is it some kind of small man syndrome, where you're trying to catch up to the big boys Australia/California / Southern USA/ Northern NZ / Mediterranean, or did it not occur to you that if your climate is changing this fast from a temperate oceanic to hot / semi arid / desert / mediterranean / humid subtropical (all terms you've used), that everyone else's climate is as well, to the same degree? Or is there some kind of hole sitting above the UK that has caused it to suddenly receive a giant mass of heat that no one else gets?

By the way, am I correct in thinking that some of the islands off Scotland have zone 10 climates as well? Why do palms not grow that great there?

The USDA climate zone, as the name suggests, is really only useful for continental USA (or other continental climates like Australia). There's dozens of 10a or 10b places around NZ near water but that doesn't mean a thing for trying to grow a coconut. We all know that applying the USDA zones to places surrounded by water is slightly inaccurate. If it was accurate then heck, I'd plant our entire beachfront out with zone 10 palms with my own cash and buy a condo on the beach just to enjoy the view. Stupid investment right?

We ask you for photos of large established Queens (as you so frequently mention 'thrive' in the UK). We get a pile of photos of non-trunking seedlings that look like they're strategically placed under eaves, and no one knows their age or if they're alive and thriving or dead now.

We get posts of dozens of phoenix canariensis which don't show anything that we don't already know, that they will grow as long as temps don't drop to nearly -10C. Same with washingtonia. 

We get posts of dry grass in a field, and a small forest fire, and some accumulated dust on a pavement corner, and get told that your climate is now semi-arid desert or something.

We get posts of photos of your home thermometer showing amazing heat stats. Everyone on here knows that while home thermometers are useful, they're no substitute for official recording devices.

What we don't get is any kind of balanced reality.  The reality is that the UK, may record some hot temperatures, it may record some warm winters (or even warm winters several times in a row), and it may have some places that don't freeze. But it is generally (let's talk actual factual averages here) a cool climate. Nothing like Southern California or Australia or Greece which are warm to hot climates.

Do you really, honestly believe that in a period of less than 10 years, the UK is now suddenly a prime spot for growing heat loving, cold hating palms like Syagrus and Archontophoenix? Has it somehow magically slipped down the globe 15 degrees of latitude?

Or is there a small, yes maybe a very teeny weeny pathetically small chance, that it's possible that a serious freeze that has occurred before, could occur again? And would they just grow so slowly over the dark damp winters to make them a satisfying investment/addition to anyone's garden?

I don't like talking down to people. I'm all for positivity and zone pushing. I'm not talking down to you from a me v you climate perspective anyway, because I'm from a very similar climate to you. But we don't need continue, cringeworthy spouting of absurd climatic achievements that are not helpful to actual growers. 

What if we took all your climate claims and made a giant advertising poster, and stuck it in the landscape section of every garden centre in London and southern UK, beneath a massive rack of 9a, 9b and 10+ palms. They'd sell out, right? Would your claims be fair and just to the poor buyers of all the queens and bangalows and every other type of sensitive palm who finds it dies after a one off freeze, or pushes out 1 or two fronds every season?

 

I know I've ignited a huge bonfire here. But going by some of the DM's I've received from other users cringing at these claims I don't think I'm alone in the above sentiments. Go ahead and attack me or ban me if you want. Send me abusive messages if you want...I don't care. We're just wanting reality and constructive discussion not nonstop climate selling garble that is likely a long distance from reality.

If you ask me right now what the number one proof of your claims would be, it would be to plant out your entire garden with unprotected zone 9a, 9b and 10a palms and send us a picture once done. I'll help you pick the species if you want. Then progress update on here quarterly. I genuinely would love to spend the next 10 years observing what happens. Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong?

Woahh, chill out man. 

I don't even know where to begin with that sort of comment. I am simply just documenting my own temperature and palm growing exploits here and in the southeast of England. Are you trying to say the palm pictures, temperature and rainfall stats are all false? Both my recordings and the countless others? It's factual that my location averages 20 inches of rain annually, has issues with spring/summer droughts and has hit 100F in two back to back years. 

But what I take from your post is that...

a) we should be focusing the discussion on how cold and wet the UK is

b) the USDA zone map is pointless for me and I shouldn't use it (in which case I won't then).

c) I shouldn't showcase anything other than Trachycarpus growing in the UK. Certainly nothing 'exotic', which could mislead people.

d) you are intent on dismantling anything I say, or post about, while promoting this wet-cold, no sunlight agenda about my climate

Yes, parts of Scotland and Wales are zone 9b / 10a, but they see like 50 inches of rainfall annually and they never go above 75F in summer. They are cool and wet year-round. Whereas the southeast of England only averages 20 inches of rainfall and hits high 90's pretty much every year now. I am not telling anyone to go out and buy Queens or any other exotic for their UK gardens. I am simply stating, and showcasing, that people are growing them, and other exotics here, and they are surviving. I am not for a second comparing my climate to SoCal, Australia or Greece, which you imply in your post. Or a semi-arid desert region for that matter. Those places are clearly hot-summer Med climates, or semi-arid, desert regions. I have made it cleat that I am temperate oceanic climate that borderlines on warm-summer Mediterranean climate, just like Victoria in BC, Canada, which is officially classified as warm-summer Med. In fact I am warmer year-round and receive less rainfall than Victoria, but you are adamant in your mind that I am a wet cold climate with no sunlight where palms will not grow. You certainly phrase it that way. 

Also, I am reluctant to plant a lot of my stuff as I will be moving house within the next 6-12 months. I am currently living back at home with my parents, since my father had a serious accident 3 years ago and my mother has been struggling with anxiety issues. I am still only 27, but as soon as I move out again, and get my own place, I will plant out everything in its final positions. Phoenix, Washies, Queens, Chembeyronia, cacti etc. All of which I have been growing on in pots, which have sailed through the past 2 winters unprotected pretty much. They will be ready to go straight in the ground when I move into the new property. That is the reason I have left a lot of stuff potted, so that I don't have to dig it up again, or leave it behind. 

In the mean time, lets agree to disagree and keep it civil. I will be mindful of what I post now for the sake of not wanting any arguments.

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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Well, it seem tonight/tomorrow dawn may bring in the lowest temps I have had for the winter. It's 8:37pm and the temps are @ 9C / 48F.

Our lowest (In the garden, where I have three thermometers placed) has been 42F. That was early last month. 

I'll let you y'all know. 

 

 

 

Edited by GottmitAlex

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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