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Copernicia Fallaensis problem, deficiency, water or normal?


Merlyn

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I bought a 3G Copernicia Fallaensis and a Baileyana from a local nursery on 12/7/18 and put them out on the South side of my house in a "nursery group" with a bunch of other larger palms. At the nursery they were in full sun in an open field, about 8 hours of midday sun.  In my location it's about 4 hours direct and the rest is semi-filtered from a couple of tall oak trees.  I have them in a group so I can water the whole crowd with a single 180 degree fan spray on a timer, I think currently set for 40 minutes around 8:30am every day.  The spray puts out about 20 gallons over that time in an area about 15 feet diameter, so each Copernicia is probably getting 0.25-0.5 gallons each morning from overhead spray.  I haven't added any fertilizer until a couple of days ago, when I put a sprinkling of Osmocote into each pot.  Our temperatures have had a couple of dips barely into the upper 30s, but have been mostly mid 70s for highs and mid 40s for lows.  Today is around 82F.  Everything else in the bed is growing normally with consistent spear growth (Bottle, D. Pembana, A. Caudescens, A. Engleri, S. Mauritiiformis, etc).  The Baileyana looks about the same and the partially opened spear has grown about 0.5" from 12/7-12/30.  The Fallaensis doesn't appear to have grown, but I forgot to sharpie-mark it before today.

The Fallaensis had a little bit of yellowing and spotting on 2 fronds when I bought it and slightly ragged/browned tips on the oldest fronds.  I figured this was not a big deal for a youngster, but it's gotten noticeably worse in the last week or so.  Attached are some photos of the Fallaensis moved onto my back porch.  The one with a backdrop of a few pots, a pineapple and a baby ponytail is from 12/7, the other 4 photos were taken today.  They are detail photos of the Fallaensis and an overhead picture with the Bailey too.  I'm concerned because the Fallaensis has quite a bit more browned tips on the leaves and the new spear has more browning on the right side.  I treated it with a dose of Banrot yesterday and wanted some suggestions or thoughts from the group:

  • Is the browned tips a simple lack of water?  Both the Baileyana and Fallaensis had a couple of finger-diameter roots escaping the pots, so they are probably ready to be stepped up to ~7G. I hadn't looked to see if one pot was getting a bit more spray than the other.
  • I've seen photos of potassium deficiency on Copernicias, browning, yellowing and necrotic spots or tips seems pretty common.  I've added the Osmocote, should I consider adding a little wood ash from my bonfire spot?
  • I have another spot with a bit more sun, and can run a dedicated dripper to the pot instead of an overhead spray.  If it's a fungal problem then that would probably help, along with another dose of Banrot.
  • Since they are growing roots out of the pots, should I step them up now so they'll have space to grow roots over the winter?

 

 

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"Our temperatures have had a couple of dips barely into the upper 30s" There is your problem right there. That's just cold damage. Going to happen on smaller plants from time to time. Your plant looks very healthy. Stop moving it around. Plants have to adjust to differing light conditions, every time you're moving it, you put it under that stress. The thing looks in great shape to me. Stop doing things to it and just let it grow. You're doing a lot better than you think you are. Very nice.

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I agree. Those look like nice strong young palms. With big roots at the drainholes, you could pot up or even put in the ground. In Florida, I planted out Copernicias small because they wanted to develop big root systems, and why not in the soil. They don't show much growth above the soil surface for a couple years, then gradually accelerate.

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Mike Merritt

Big Island of Hawaii, windward, rainy side, 740 feet (225 meters) elevation

165 inches (4,200 mm) of rain per year, 66 to 83 deg F (20 to 28 deg C) in summer, 62 to 80 deg F (16.7 to 26.7 Deg C) in winter.

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I'd be surprised to see cold damage on these palms, we officially hit 38F on 11/28/18 and 40-45F on a few nights around 12/10-12/12. Baileyana and Fallaensis typically don't see damage until freezing, though I suppose I don't know enough about young Copernicias to say that for sure.  But the cold-tender pineapples, D. Pembana, C. Macrocarpa and Bottle palms less than a foot away show no damage and are happily opening new fronds.

I haven't planted them yet because I have a few 3 foot diameter water oak trunks that I need to dig up and yank out of the ground first.  Some days I curse the builders of my house, who decided that planting 40x water oaks was a good idea.  They grow fast up to 70-80 feet tall and then die, they drop big branches on a weekly basis and they like to fall over in hurricanes.  The other reason is I read the Copernicias (like Bismarcks) don't like to be transplanted. I'm still looking for an Acrocomia Aculeata, Attalea Cohune and maybe an Arenga Pinnata to finish out the "monster palm" areas.  I thought I'd get these up to 1-2ft tall before picking their final planting spot.

If these aren't particularly susceptible to fungus from overhead watering, then I may just step them up to deeper pots for more root growth over the winter.  Once I finish painting the back porch I have a large area I can use as a super-sunny nursery over the winter. I have some heliconias in pots there that wouldn't mind a couple of neighbors.

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I believe Kurt is right. It is a differently kind of cold damage than from a freeze.  Prolong cold can cause nutrient deficiency in the leafs of palms from tropical origins. Especially see this in young palms in pots where the roots are exposed to cold. You could see less of this when the palm is well established in the ground with a deep root system. Beside that your young palms are beautiful. Good luck with them.

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They look good to me, too. Copernicias want to be in the ground when they seem insanely small. And they grow large root systems. I planted two seedling C. rigidas a couple days ago and surrounded them with bricks so we don't accidentally step on them. If you have a place to put those, consider planting them sooner rather than later. The ground in central/south FL doesn't get cold enough to damage the root systems and you can always protect the leaves with a towel or blanket when really cold weather threatens.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Actually that's a couple of good points David and Meg, I hadn't thought about them being in small pots vs the ground.  The last potted palm I had with roots busting through the pot was a Phoenix Reclinata/Loureiroi/Pusilla hybrid.  It had been in a 15g pot for ~10 years and didn't seem to care at all.  Of course it tripled in size in 6 months after I put it in the ground, but it never showed a sign of damage or any nutritional problems.  And of course they are safe to much colder than the typical 25-30F lows we see here every few years.

I took a closer look at the two palms while I was painting the porch, and the Baileyana only had 1 pinkie-sized root sneaking out.  The Fallaensis had 5 finger-sized, trying to escape out of every opening in the pot. They were broken off at 0.5" diameter, so they were probably spreading a pretty good distance into the ground at the nursery.  Most likely the Baileyana didn't suffer much loss when I bought it, but the Fallaensis was probably 25% or so drawing water and food from the ground instead of the pot.  

Based on the feedback I think my best bet is to dig up the one water oak stump asap and get the Fallaensis into the ground.  If they are as root-sensitive as Bismarckia Nobilis then repotting now and planting in 2 months might be worse for it than planting it next week and protecting it on cold snaps. :) 

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I don't think Copernicias are particularly root sensitive. About 9 years ago I bought my largest baileyana from a seller on eBay. That moron upotted it, rinsed off the soil and tossed it into a cardboard box: no packing for roots or leaves. When I opened the box I almost had a heart attack. I swore never to buy from the guy again, potted it in a 14" treepot and waited. In two months roots were escaping the drain holes and I had to plant it because I had no deeper pots left. Tough palm. You need to get yours into the ground ASAP.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Meg, honestly that's the best news I've heard this year!  :D  And since this year is 99.99999% over that's saying a lot!  I received a similar Chamberyonia Macrocarpa with washed off and dried out roots from an eBay seller, and it's still struggling to survive 4 months later.  I have read several other PT posts about trying to move Copernicias of a couple of types, where they declined and died after transplanting.  That sounded so much like people's experience with Bismarckia Nobilis that I made the (maybe faulty) assumption that they had a root death-regrowth issue like Sabals.  If they aren't that root sensitive then repotting small ones should not be too difficult, and the loss of the escapee roots may be only a temporary nutritional/water issue.

Either way, the 5x large diameter root loss when I bought it seems more like the major reason why my Fallaensis is showing a water/nutritional problem.  And why the Baileyana is fine when it only lost 1 expeditionary root.  So I think you are all right.  Repot or get it in the ground ASAP, preferably into the ground!  :D 

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I marked the new frond on the 1st and it grew noticeably in the first few days of the year, when temperatures were about 83/65.  I marked it again today to see if it keeps growing in temps that are more "normal" for January of 70/50.  I moved it from 3G to 7G this afternoon, it was not root bound on the sides and only very slightly on the bottom.  Interestingly enough, the top inch of soil was completely free of roots and fell off when I tilted it to look at the bottom.  

I moved it to a maximum sun location on the porch, which is usually ~10F warmer than the back yard.

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They need deep pots not necessarily wide pots. They also want full sun so don't skimp on that.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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I personally would not water them with overhead spray daily since your average daily temperatures are 60F and below.  Try removing them from the spray area and hand water at the base every 3 days or twice weekly.   The color should improve in a week or less. 

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I disagree with Meg about the deep pots. Deep pots can be a way of killing Copernicias. They do have long roots, but the roots tend to circle around the sides of their pots, so that lateral space is more important than vertical space. At least that is my policy. I have have angry arguments with prominent nurserymen about that, but I have also raised tons of Copernicias of numerous varieties.

 

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Mike Merritt

Big Island of Hawaii, windward, rainy side, 740 feet (225 meters) elevation

165 inches (4,200 mm) of rain per year, 66 to 83 deg F (20 to 28 deg C) in summer, 62 to 80 deg F (16.7 to 26.7 Deg C) in winter.

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I need to hijack this thread for a moment. I'm planting out my 2 fallaensis and 2 hospita this spring. Should I add any soil amendments short of a thick layer of mulch (peat, compost, topsoil)? My native soil is basically sugar sand and and limestone cap rock. Is that similar to Cuba's soil?

Naples (inland), FL - technically 10a but more like 9b in the winter :hmm:

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Deep pots are harder to water cycle, I suspect less consistency.  But my experience is cuban copernicia don't like to be in pots because they cant grow these huge root systems that is in their DNA.  Watering every day is a no for me and I have a fast draining potting soil(added perlite).  I have 2 hospitas and 2 macroglossas in 5g pots now, I water them 2x a week in winter.  

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Thanks for all the feedback on pots and watering!  These definitely have an unusually large amount of roots for such a small above-ground palm!  The 3G pots were pretty solid with roots except for the top inch, and probably had 2x the roots on the bottom of the pot compared to the sides.  They were definitely starting to circle the pot, but not enough to be a concern.  I should have taken a photo, I'll do that when I step up the Baileyana.

I moved them onto the porch into the sunniest spot I have, and away from the overhead watering. I was thinking of running a couple of 0.5gal/hour drippers over to the pots, so I don't forget to water them.  Does 2 drippers @ 0.5gal / hour for 40 minutes seem reasonable per 7g pot?  That's 0.66 gallons per watering, 3x per week.  

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Missi, my reading is that Copernicias don't like really acidic soil, and some people recommend adding dolomite or lime to the mix.  Apparently they are not too picky about soil types, but avoiding very acidic soil seems like a good idea.  My step up was with ~1/3 each of generic Miracle Gro potting soil, coarse sand and perlite.  This was pretty similar to what it was already growing in, which I believe was a mix of medium ground pine bark, sand and dirt dredged from the bottom of a FL lake.  If anyone has other suggestions or thinks my mix is a bad choice, let me know! :) 

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I've revised my thinking on the cold damage.  My wife gave me an Acurite weather station for Christmas, and I have been logging temperatures since the end of the year.  My back yard (and nursery area) are generally a few degrees colder than the "official" weather for the area.  I double-checked the Acurite's temperature readings with an absurdly expensive optical Fluke meter from work, and it is pretty much within 1F accuracy.  Wednesday night (9th) was 44F per Weather.com and local Wunderground stations.  My yard read 37-38F at 7am and the Acurite station recorded 35F overnight.  Early this morning I read 38-40F in the yard (same as the Acurite) and the local stations and Weather.com showed 44F.

So my conclusion from the above is that my yard is several degrees colder than the "official" temperatures, so the "official 40-42F" low on December 10-11 could have been easily in the mid 30s in my backyard.  It could have been colder, maybe even close to freezing.  This could definitely have contributed to the frond damage on the Fallaensis in a pot.  

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  • 1 year later...

I picked a spot for the Fallaensis and planted it around 3/31/19.  It's in a very sandy area of the yard, with not a lot of organic material.  It's in full sun from 9AM to 3-4PM in the summer, but shaded by the neighbor's oaks after around 4PM.  I have a single 2GPH dripper on it running about 40 minutes each morning, or around 1.3 gallons per day.  I've been fertilizing with 6-1-8 or 8-4-8 generic HD/Lowe's "palm fertilizer" 3-4x per year.  It's grown steadily but slowly, and is around 20" tall right now.  The next frond coming up is pretty stout, so I am guessing it's grown enough of a root system to start putting out some bigger fans. 

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Looking good!  Fallaensis truly picks up speed and goes to the maximum leaf size after trunking.  My 20 footer puts out 12-13 leaves a year now vs 6-7 as a 10 footer.   And leaf size is now 6'+ where it was 5' as a ten footer. That one may take 8-9 years to hit 20', if well fed, not a slow palm.  They love water in the heat, but do develop deep roots and tolerate drought well.  Maybe the most beautiful palm you can grow in 9B.  

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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  • 1 year later...

I am having some issues with mine. It’s in a 25gal pot and was doing just fine. But now the middle leaves are all yellow. They get Florikan 6month fertilizer and not sure what is wrong. Gets enough water too. Have it since 2 yrs and growing strong. 
please give me an advice. I am hurt seeing her not doing good. Pics attached. 

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It might be better to start a new thread for your palm with additional photos, maybe in the "Palms in Pots" section.  Here's my "cheat sheet" for deficiencies, hopefully this helps!

  • Nitrogen - Older fronds turn light green uniformly, new fronds remain dark green until deficiency is really severe
  • Potassium - Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving inwards
  • Magnesium - Yellow linear bands on leaves but generally transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Never causes leaf tip necrosis
  • Iron - Many times caused by overly mucky soil and root rot. Starts with new spear leaves with yellow-green or even white, possibly with spots of green.
  • Manganese - Lengthwise necrotic streaks in leaves with dead and curled leaf tips. Similar to bands showing Magnesium deficiency
  • Boron - Bent or necrotic or distorted leaf tips, distorted or bent spear, bands of dead spots on new fans, spears that won't fully open
  • Water - Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color

The dead spots could be a potassium deficiency, but the long linear yellow streaks looks a lot like a Magnesium deficiency.  If the leaf tips are curled and dead then it could be Manganese instead of Magnesium.  I haven't had any issues with mine after I planted them, and I've never tried growing anything in a big 25g pot. 

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Thank you so much for your cheat sheet! Definitely need to copy that. 
I had accidentally growing 3 Bismarckia nobilis in the same pot. Seeds must have finished in the soil by mistake. I was too lazy to pull them out when I saw them growing. Now reading around I read that they could have caused this deficiency by pulling all the nutrients for themselves. Not sure if that is the case, however

 they did not show any deficiencies. So I just pulled them out and hopefully I did not overstressed the Fallaensis. The roots looked healthy. 
Now I mixed the soil with new one and applied again Florikan. I hope that this is the issue. 
I supplied last week with Epson salt but for now not seeing any changes. 
I also had the pot sitting in water and maybe that was also a stupid mistake. 
Again, many thanks for your time. Attached a picimage.thumb.jpg.b1f081a71b70e45241d9127a02021dc4.jpg

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11 hours ago, JANAIY said:

I had accidentally growing 3 Bismarckia nobilis in the same pot. Seeds must have finished in the soil by mistake. I was too lazy to pull them out when I saw them growing. Now reading around I read that they could have caused this deficiency by pulling all the nutrients for themselves. Not sure if that is the case, however they did not show any deficiencies. So I just pulled them out and hopefully I did not overstressed the Fallaensis. The roots looked healthy. 
Now I mixed the soil with new one and applied again Florikan. I hope that this is the issue.  I supplied last week with Epson salt but for now not seeing any changes.  I also had the pot sitting in water and maybe that was also a stupid mistake.

If the Bismarckia were small then hopefully they didn't pull enough nutrients out of the soil to matter.  If they were big and growing full divided fans I could see them affecting the Fallaensis.  Both Bismarckia and Fallaensis are known for being extremely root-sensitive, frequently dying if you mess with the roots too much.  I've usually read they should never be transplanted and to be very careful when repotting to avoid root disturbance.  That definitely could have affected your palm, if you had to yank out big seedlings.

For the new soil, it looks pretty rich from the photo.  My mix is roughly equal parts generic topsoil, perlite, and Sakrete Paver Base (crushed limestone gravel).  Fallaensis like it "less acidic" like most of the Cuban Copernicia.  If your mix is quick to drain then it's probably ok, but nutrient deficiencies can be made worse if the soil is on the acidic side, i.e. lots of decomposing organics like compost. 

Sitting in water could be a major contributor to your issue, very few palms tolerate "wet feet."  You can get root rot, which might be the reason for all of the yellowing.  A fungicide might be a good idea, like Daconil, Mancozeb, Banrot, etc.

Adding Epsom salt would help if it's a magnesium deficiency, but any yellowed areas will never turn back green.  The extra magnesium will help prevent it from getting worse, but once it's yellow...it's yellow!  That's the case with all deficiencies, except sometimes nitrogen.  So if the yellowing stops and new fronds grow out normal, then you can assume that you've solved the problem.  Unfortunately it takes a while for new fronds to grow, so sometimes it's tough to know if you are doing the right thing...  :(

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Ok, thank you so much. I did not know they are root sensitive. I was very careful with the big roots and did not break any, I am carefully regardless. However I hope she makes it. The seedlings were pretty tall but only 1 first fan came out on one. 
well, I have to wait now and pray. Was always lucky with no deficpin all my exotic palms for now. That’s why I have no experience so far regarding deficiencies or issues with my palms. Again thank you and wish you a beautiful weekend.

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  • 4 months later...

According to the above thin seems to fit manganese and magnesium, with both yellow stripes most prominent mid-leaf and necrotic spots. I had tried to boost potassium by adding miracle gro palm fertilizer and some charcoal but the problem has persisted.

I have my fingers crossed that this is fallaensis since my fallaensis seeds sat for so long and may have gotten mixed up with some others so I'm not 100%. 

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So I guess I'll try try some Epsom salt and see what I have that contains manganese and add that too...any observations or suggestions welcome.

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@Frond-friend42 I don't really see the "yellow linear bands" that would indicate an Mn deficiency.  Typically this is like a band around the end of the leaf, gradually turning green towards the center and towards the base of the leaf.  Sort of like this on a fan palm:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/image/4680251/screen

Yours looks more like a splotchy iron deficiency, or potassium, or possibly manganese if the new leaves have lengthwise necrotic spots.  Someone on here (I forget who at the moment) had good luck with foliar iron sprays that quickly fixed an iron problem.  I was only thinking of iron because of the random splotchy dark green spots like figure 3 here:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP265

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5 hours ago, Frond-friend42 said:

According to the above thin seems to fit manganese and magnesium, with both yellow stripes most prominent mid-leaf and necrotic spots. I had tried to boost potassium by adding miracle gro palm fertilizer and some charcoal but the problem has persisted.

I have my fingers crossed that this is fallaensis since my fallaensis seeds sat for so long and may have gotten mixed up with some others so I'm not 100%. 

1662742444397432491520420047675.jpg

That is a Copernicia ? 

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1 hour ago, JubaeaMan138 said:

That is a Copernicia ? 

Maybe it's not even a copernicia.  True. I thought I had C. fallaensis and was so excited but it keeps looking less like a copernicia. The seed looked like it. 

I had gathered chaemerops and pritchardias that had a somewhat similar round appearance. It doesn't look like a pritchardia of that size...but it is starting to make me wonder.

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10 minutes ago, Frond-friend42 said:

Maybe it's not even a copernicia.  True. I thought I had C. fallaensis and was so excited but it keeps looking less like a copernicia. The seed looked like it. 

I had gathered chaemerops and pritchardias that had a somewhat similar round appearance. It doesn't look like a pritchardia of that size...but it is starting to make me wonder.

Yep definetly Not looking like Copernicia in my opinion . I see zero teeth . I would think by that size it would have noticeable teeth I hope  Some palmtalk experts will chime in . 

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7 hours ago, Frond-friend42 said:

According to the above thin seems to fit manganese and magnesium, with both yellow stripes most prominent mid-leaf and necrotic spots. I had tried to boost potassium by adding miracle gro palm fertilizer and some charcoal but the problem has persisted.

I have my fingers crossed that this is fallaensis since my fallaensis seeds sat for so long and may have gotten mixed up with some others so I'm not 100%. 

1662742444397432491520420047675.jpg

It’s an interesting combo.  You’ve got old leaf yellowing and necrosis, and new leaf pallor with interval chlorosis and some necrosis or other damage.    I’d bet there is more than one problem here, or one problem causing multiple problems.   

I start to wonder, if it’s too wet, too wrong-temperature, or too acidic if it’s actually Copernicia, resulting in multiple problems.  

Magnesium vs Manganese should be discernible based on old leaf vs new leaf problems.  Mg deficiency is an old leaf problem, while Mn is a new leaf problem.   

With necrosis, I’d think potassium or manganese issues, or just salt/fertilizer damage or surface damage from temperature, sun, bugs, water/chemical, etc…

Pallor and interval chlorosis, makes you think iron (new leaf), nitrogen (diffuse leaning toward older leaf), and/or Magnesium problems if along the outer edges of old leaves.  Id think it’s not nitrogen, as N is in everything.  

So what do you do?

I think it has to do with Fe/Mn and K/Mg, if nutritional.  

You could hit it with foliar iron.  If it starts to green up in a green spotty pattern after a couple hits, it’s low on iron.   You could hit the soil with chelated iron (not ferrous sulfate), but you should balance Manganese the same time, as these are antagonistic, just like potassium and magnesium are also.   

You should probably go low and slow, as trying to correct all four quickly quickly might fry it.   
I’d probably go with dilute chelated iron and Mn, and a light langbeinite application with a light palm fertilizer dose.  Then I’d make sure the cultural conditions are right to absorb it.   How much?  Who knows?  

But that’s just like, my opinion man….

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Hah, I didn't even look at the leaves to see if it was a Copernicia.  By the time my Fallaensis seedlings got that big, they had already gone partially palmate and weren't solid leaves.  They do not have marginal thorns yet, at least this one doesn't:

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On 9/9/2022 at 12:59 PM, Frond-friend42 said:

According to the above thin seems to fit manganese and magnesium, with both yellow stripes most prominent mid-leaf and necrotic spots. I had tried to boost potassium by adding miracle gro palm fertilizer and some charcoal but the problem has persisted.

I have my fingers crossed that this is fallaensis since my fallaensis seeds sat for so long and may have gotten mixed up with some others so I'm not 100%. 

1662742444397432491520420047675.jpg

 

On 9/9/2022 at 12:59 PM, Frond-friend42 said:

According to the above thin seems to fit manganese and magnesium, with both yellow stripes most prominent mid-leaf and necrotic spots. I had tried to boost potassium by adding miracle gro palm fertilizer and some charcoal but the problem has persisted.

I have my fingers crossed that this is fallaensis since my fallaensis seeds sat for so long and may have gotten mixed up with some others so I'm not 100%. 

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Thank you for your input!! Looking at your picture this is definitely not a Fallaensis. I bought 3 small ones and they were not like this one. Instead tge fronds are hard and look different. I attach a pic from mine, even they grew since than, but they looked just the same, they have only more fronds. You can see the first leaf should look like it when they are small. If you are interested in one Fallaensis and you live here in Miami S Florida I sell you one if interested! It’s a true Cuban Fallaensis! 

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On 9/9/2022 at 1:01 PM, Frond-friend42 said:

So I guess I'll try try some Epsom salt and see what I have that contains manganese and add that too...any observations or suggestions welcome.

I applied Epson salt as well. She looks better now and the new leaf seems looking healthy. However I don’t like the soil I used when repotted last year and I might change the soil, it’s gonna be a mission since she sits in a 25 gal pot.😩
Today it’s extremely hot and I decided to repot my Johannesteijsmannia magnifica, perakensis and altifrons and Kerriodoxa elegans. and my Sabinaria Magnifica what started rolling her leave’s underneath.  The soil must be too wet and in fact it was. I also found some earth worms maybe sucking at their roots. I did not like those stains on their leaves either. Used Bonsai lava rocks around the roots and mixed my own soil. It went smooth without disturbing the roots, have been extremely gentle. Thumbs up!!! 
I made a pic from my rare exotic palm collection, extremely happy that everything is still alive and growing even slow, but not dying! Apart of my gorgeous lipstick palm 9 ft tall she suddenly left me speechless with no way around to safe her. But I saved a few small ones and they are going to survive. I figured that she was without any soil left due to being constantly watered and sitting in water, the soil was close to be gone. Something you don’t see looking at the pot. Incredible that I did not figured that out when I could have saved her!!  I have also a very rare Ravanea Lakatra  what grows extremely slow but it does. It’s now I think around 4 yrs old, check the last picture. I love it, it’s the most beautiful palm I have. 

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2 hours ago, JANAIY said:

 

Thank you for your input!! Looking at your picture this is definitely not a Fallaensis. I bought 3 small ones and they were not like this one. Instead tge fronds are hard and look different. I attach a pic from mine, even they grew since than, but they looked just the same, they have only more fronds. You can see the first leaf should look like it when they are small. If you are interested in one Fallaensis and you live here in Miami S Florida I sell you one if interested! It’s a true Cuban Fallaensis! 

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Sadly I don't live in Miami. I grow these in a greenhouse...in Utah.

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I use florikan controlled release 180 day palm fertilizer and sulpomag maybe 1-2x a year when newer leaves show signs of deficiency.  These four are (3) hospitas, all the same age 4yrs from small bands, the 4th palm is a fallaensis I purchased early 2021 in the current pot it was a little more than half its current size.  The problems I have had with the hospitas were due to (1) the smallest was planted and dug up, too early.  Then it and the second largest were planted too deep in the pot after upsizing, so after a year I removed some soil and they started to look better.  I also had some low sun locations 3-4hrs a day for the hospitas before this year.  After moving them into  full sun it was obvious they hated that little amount of sunlight.  The fallaensis also saw some limited sun till early this year and had started to look a little unhappy color wise.  Moving it made a big difference as the growth has increase nicely and color has improved.  So yes as stated above, a big pot with high drainage soil is important.  The largest hospita just jumped in growth when I went from 5-15 gallon, it was small just 18 months ago when I upsized the pot.  Use a big pot and make sure you are putting K, Mg down with that fertilizer as these palms are hogs for K, Mg.  K, Mg are the 1st micros to rinse out due to their high solubility in water so epsom salt gives Mg.  But espom slat has no K so you still can be deficient in K which is the most common issue with the cuban copernicias.  In addition to these 4 in pots I have a small macroglossa, a large fallaense and a large bailey in the ground.  They are much tougher to grow in containers because the roots need room to grow.

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Here is a pic of some of my fallaensis seedlings in pots in April 2014. Perhaps this will help with any ID problems. I planted three similar ones in the ground that now have leaves that reach over my head. No question about the ID - the seeds were collected from the grove in Falla, Cuba.

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Mike Merritt

Big Island of Hawaii, windward, rainy side, 740 feet (225 meters) elevation

165 inches (4,200 mm) of rain per year, 66 to 83 deg F (20 to 28 deg C) in summer, 62 to 80 deg F (16.7 to 26.7 Deg C) in winter.

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1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

I use florikan controlled release 180 day palm fertilizer and sulpomag maybe 1-2x a year when newer leaves show signs of deficiency.  These four are (3) hospitas, all the same age 4yrs from small bands, the 4th palm is a fallaensis I purchased early 2021 in the current pot it was a little more than half its current size.  The problems I have had with the hospitas were due to (1) the smallest was planted and dug up, too early.  Then it and the second largest were planted too deep in the pot after upsizing, so after a year I removed some soil and they started to look better.  I also had some low sun locations 3-4hrs a day for the hospitas before this year.  After moving them into  full sun it was obvious they hated that little amount of sunlight.  The fallaensis also saw some limited sun till early this year and had started to look a little unhappy color wise.  Moving it made a big difference as the growth has increase nicely and color has improved.  So yes as stated above, a big pot with high drainage soil is important.  The largest hospita just jumped in growth when I went from 5-15 gallon, it was small just 18 months ago when I upsized the pot.  Use a big pot and make sure you are putting K, Mg down with that fertilizer as these palms are hogs for K, Mg.  K, Mg are the 1st micros to rinse out due to their high solubility in water so epsom salt gives Mg.  But espom slat has no K so you still can be deficient in K which is the most common issue with the cuban copernicias.  In addition to these 4 in pots I have a small macroglossa, a large fallaense and a large bailey in the ground.  They are much tougher to grow in containers because the roots need room to grow.

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Do you use any dolomite in you potted Copernicia?  

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