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COLD in FL, BRRR!


NatureGirl

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Wow, I was shocked how cold it got here in Satellite Beach last night. Don't remember temps like these ever in Nov. More like end of Dec weather.  I woke up at 5:30 am to 44F! Then by sunrise it had dropped another 2 degrees to 42F. Luckily I did decide to bring in my seedlings. It's only 57F right now at 12:30. They are forecasting 45F again for tonight. 

Warrior Palm Princess, Satellite Beach, Florida

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Bottomed off at 42.3 here on my weather station, but some stations around me recorded as low as 34 according to wunderground.com.  Bone-chilling after temperatures in the 80/60 range for a week.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Your low temperature is my current temperature as of 1:00 PM (10 degrees below normal), my low was 37F, and we hit 15F last week which is super early for us. I’m glad we aren’t the only ones suffering.

I like Florida’s idea of cold better than mine lol.

Edited by cm05
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46 degrees F here in the central Cape this morning. Pretty chilly for this early.

Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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That's funny because I'm thinking that well, 'over there' it is very late autumn, nearly winter,

But 'down here' it is nearly summer and it is still cold here too. We hardly have had any spring at all.

Weather is becoming less predictable.

Steve  

Cheers Steve

It is not dead, it is just senescence.

   

 

 

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Its chilly but the cold spells in Nov are actually quite common recently in Orlando. In the last 5 years, Orlando International hit low 40s at least once in Nov and upper 30s twice...once as early as 11/22. Thankfully they are short lived. 40.5F in my backyard last night.

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14 minutes ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

Its chilly but the cold spells in Nov are actually quite common recently in Orlando. In the last 5 years, Orlando International hit low 40s at least once in Nov and upper 30s twice...once as early as 11/22. Thankfully they are short lived. 40.5F in my backyard last night.

At least we stayed above 40F.  Some in our region weren't so lucky: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/58650-201819-winter-low-temps/

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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33F and frosty in northern Dade City at 7am this morning, quickly reminding me of how thin my blood is from the usual Florida climate

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I think it got down around 42F last night judging by nearby weather stations. Upper 30s and patchy frost may happen here in my icebox yard tonight. I probably should have protected a newly planted small Adonidia clump in my backyard but i don’t really have anything good to protect it with. Throwing a blanket over stuff really doesn’t work all that well because the dew gets it wet then it freezes to the palm fronds anyway causing sometimes more damage than going without a blanket.

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Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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4 minutes ago, FishEyeAquaculture said:

33F and frosty in northern Dade City at 7am this morning, quickly reminding me of how thin my blood is from the usual Florida climate

Hard to believe there was almost a 10 degree difference such a short drive away.

1 minute ago, ruskinPalms said:

I think it got down around 42F last night judging by nearby weather stations. Upper 30s and patchy frost may happen here in my icebox yard tonight. I probably should have protected a newly planted small Adonidia clump in my backyard but i don’t really have anything good to protect it with. Throwing a blanket over stuff really doesn’t work all that well because the dew gets it wet then it freezes to the palm fronds anyway causing sometimes more damage than going without a blanket.

If you're really worried about it, tie the fronds up and wrap the blanket around it multiple times before tying it fast at the top and bottom.  The dew will only form on the outside layer of the blanket.  I use this method with coconuts here.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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10 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

Hard to believe there was almost a 10 degree difference such a short drive away.

 

NWS in Ruskin had Lakeland Highlands at 35F in their 12hr Minimum report this morning. 

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3 minutes ago, FishEyeAquaculture said:

NWS in Ruskin had Lakeland Highlands at 35F in their 12hr Minimum report this morning. 

I don't doubt it.  The readings were all over the place.

201811280750_weather.png

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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It's only 9 PM and already 2 degrees colder than yesterdays low of 54 here in Delray Beach. Have some Coco seedlings I just potted a few days ago so they're already under stress. Brought them in the garage for the night and it should stay at least 10 degrees F warmer in there. They're taller than they look as the cars are raised up off the floor over a foot.  I remember how much growth slowed in all the Coconut palms 8-9 years ago when we had some really cold spells. Fronds were small and slower growth for months each spring.

20181128_195030_zpsh00z0wn4.jpg

 

 

Edited by NOT A TA
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6 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

It's only 9 PM and already 2 degrees colder than yesterdays low of 54 here in Delray Beach. Have some Coco seedlings I just potted a few days ago so they're already under stress. Brought them in the garage for the night and it should stay at least 10 degrees F warmer in there. They're taller than they look as the cars are raised up off the floor over a foot.  I remember how much growth slowed in all the Coconut palms 8-9 years ago when we had some really cold spells. Fronds were small and slower growth for months each spring.

Looking like you'll stay in the upper 40's tonight, so that extra 10 degrees will probably be much appreciated by the seedlings in pots.  I have 4 of them in the ground here and left them uncovered last night and tonight.  The lowest I should see in their sheltered spots is 40F, and that's typically as much as I like to push it for the reason you cited (slow growth in the spring).

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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I've got another 1/2 dozen or so seedlings that are bigger and been in their pots for about a month that'll stay outside as well as the bigger ones that are in the ground. The ones in the ground I leave the fruit, leaf bases, etc. on this time of year and let old fronds stay longer than I do in warm months all to help them stay warm. Seems to have a noticeable affect as my next door neighbor has trees from the same batch planted the same day with the same exposure and theirs are noticeably smaller. They take the fruit to eat and clean off old leaf bases and such during our short winter to make them "pretty" since they're by the street.

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2 hours ago, FishEyeAquaculture said:

33F and frosty in northern Dade City at 7am this morning, quickly reminding me of how thin my blood is from the usual Florida climate

33F and frost already that far south? Wow, that is so crazy. The lowest temp. this fall so far in my area of the coastal FL panhandle has been 37F. Last night's low was 39F.

Currently some inland areas of South FL are already colder than my area up here, and it's only 10pm.

dest.JPG

fl.JPG

Edited by Estlander
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Just got back from London and I'm surprised it is actually a little colder here in Tampa. :huh:

Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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8 hours ago, Estlander said:

33F and frost already that far south? Wow, that is so crazy.

Just to be clear, Dade City is NOT in Dade County (Miami area).  Dade City is 40 miles north of Tampa, 60 miles west of Orlando

38F as of 6:30am this morning

Edited by FishEyeAquaculture
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1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Finally warm in Texas and cold in Florida :P  (5 AM CST)

You got us this time, but the next time the arctic goes "Bowling for Brownsville" we'll remember this ;) 

26 minutes ago, FishEyeAquaculture said:

Just to be clear, Dade City is NOT in Dade County (Miami area).  Dade City is 40 miles north of Tampa, 60 miles west of Orlando

38F as of 6:30am this morning

And Dade City is a nice place + 30 miles north of Lakeland.  Worked up there a few times and thought the people at the bank were very friendly and welcoming.

Recorded 44.0F at 6:15am.  Two nights in the 40s, ducked the low and mid-30s + frost out in the boondocks, coconuts are fine uncovered, plus back to regularly scheduled programming this weekend before another shot of cool/cold air:

201811290000_Weather.png

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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I saw Miami was in the low 50s this morning on Wunderground. AMI and points nearby were a little warmer, another great example of the awesome microclimate there. :) 

Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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I would kill to have that be my "brrr" lol.

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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23 hours ago, gtsteve said:

That's funny because I'm thinking that well, 'over there' it is very late autumn, nearly winter,

But 'down here' it is nearly summer and it is still cold here too. We hardly have had any spring at all.

Weather is becoming less predictable.

Steve  

Yep, I've still got the wood fire going at night and tomorrow is summer. What the?

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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We were fortunate a thin layer of clouds moved in last night. Bottomed at 46F in Orlando when 30s and scattered frost was predicted. My last 2 nights were 40.5F and 46F with a high of 57F. Nothing too terrible but hoping it's not a sign of things to come. This year I'm monitoring my soil temp near the coconut. This cold spell brought it down to 63F. With highs back to the mid 80s over the next few days it should get back into the low 70s where it has been averaging. 

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It was marvelous! Low of 50F on Thursday morning. High of approximately 65F. Mid-50’s this morning with highs in the 70’s. Unfortunately, highs back in the mid-80’s Sunday. At 9:38 PM EST the temperature is 65F.

It is interesting that LA/SD regularly experience highs/lows in the mid-60’s and mid-50’s during the middle of the summer without commentary. Mark Twain’s quote “that the coldest winter he ever experienced was a summer in San Fran” is true and outstanding. That stated, in Florida it is BRRR...It is about time...

What you look for is what is looking

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3 minutes ago, bubba said:

It was marvelous! Low of 50F on Thursday morning. High of approximately 65F. Mid-50’s this morning with highs in the 70’s. Unfortunately, highs back in the mid-80’s Sunday. At 9:38 PM EST the temperature is 65F.

It is interesting that LA/SD regularly experience highs/lows in the mid-60’s and mid-50’s during the middle of the summer without commentary. Mark Twain’s quote “that the coldest winter he ever experienced was a summer in San Fran” is true and outstanding. That stated, in Florida it is BRRR...It is about time...

I agree, wonderful weather to garden and to actually do anything outside without sweating! Very enjoyable.

Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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These were temps at 10 PM last night. One thing often overlooked is how cold swamps can get due to their low elevation (large area south of Bithlo). Upper 30s were well south of Orlando and even low 40s down to interior southern FL. I always thought swamps stayed warmer due to all the water. Am I interpreting that incorrectly?

Screenshot_20181128-222957_Chrome.jpg

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22 minutes ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

These were temps at 10 PM last night. One thing often overlooked is how cold swamps can get due to their low elevation (large area south of Bithlo). Upper 30s were well south of Orlando and even low 40s down to interior southern FL. I always thought swamps stayed warmer due to all the water. Am I interpreting that incorrectly?

I read an article stating that draining swamps could make freezes worse since the water in the swamps would hold heat during the day and release it at night.  I want to say it was from an organization that dealt with growing citrus.  From my experience, when a swamp is drained, the land tends to get developed and contribute to a heat island effect.  Not exactly a scientifically backed statement in my case, but it's hard to argue with the heat island effect we've all seen in Orlando.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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40 minutes ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

These were temps at 10 PM last night. One thing often overlooked is how cold swamps can get due to their low elevation (large area south of Bithlo). Upper 30s were well south of Orlando and even low 40s down to interior southern FL. I always thought swamps stayed warmer due to all the water. Am I interpreting that incorrectly?

I used to live near a swamp and I don't think they are helpful for the following reasons:

  • Winter is the dry season in FL so water levels will be low.
  • Shallow water is easily influenced by air temps so it will cool off quickly during a cold spell.
  • Swamps are located at low points so cold air is going to flow towards them. 
Edited by RedRabbit
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Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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  My experience with a " swamp" was that it definitely remained warmer during most cold spells .

The particular swamp , in Hardee County florida , was actually in a low area with higher ground to the west , and

 a much higher slope towards the east , and a woodsy ,  slow moving small Branch of a gathering stream moving slowly through it .

  During a few Cold spells , I did surveys of my property , right at dawn .

From the highest , fairly open spot on the place , to the lowest and  canopied  spot ,  I found up to a 10 deg. difference .

  Also , back in the Swamp , the effects of the wind are lessened . I always thought of it as a heat sink , as the entire

" body " and mass of the water , and the mass of the flora would store energy aka heat .

  Cypress dominated Swamp types probably don't perform this way , as the canopy basically disappears as Winter proceeds .

So then radiational cooling is much greater .

 

 

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Water radiates heat much more slowly than land. I believe in the moderating effect of a body of water in FL, i.e., pond, lake, canal, swamp. If nearby water can raise cold temps by even a few degrees, palm damage may be greatly decreased. And you can't discount the amount of heat released into water by even a winter sun on a cold day.

As for draining swamps, current thinking in FL has evolved from "bad swamps" to "precious wetlands". I worked for 17 years at a mitigation bank on wildlife preserve Little Pine Island, where we removed exotic vegetation and restored hydrology destroyed by man's effort to drain bad swamps. In essence, we recreated precious wetlands. We also banked four kinds of credits to be sold to anyone wanting to perform any act, i.e., building a house, widening a road, that might impact a wetland. The State of FL, local water management districts and US Army Corps of Engineers have a say on what can and can't be done to even privately owned wetlands. Wholesale draining of swamps has/will come to a stop. Anyone wanting to modify wetlands on his own property must now go through months, even years, of petitioning, litigating and cajoling multiple agencies which must give their stamp of approval. If they win approval for their project they must purchase credits from my former employer's bank at a cost of $50,000 to $100,000 each as of 2013. And woe to any landowner who proceeds without agency approval - huge Federal and State fines, official censure, bad publicity and possible jail terms.

 

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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The swamp theory just doesn't seem to work in my region.  Most of the swampy areas on the outskirts of Lakeland heading toward Auburndale or Winter Haven (Lake Hancock, Saddle Creek, etc.) are colder than areas near the city's interior.  The effect very much mirrors what @pj_orlando_z9b showed with his graphic of temperature readings out by Bithlo vs. the Orlando metro area.  Elevation seems to be a factor, mentioned also by @RedRabbit in his post.

Thank you for the information, @PalmatierMeg.  I hope no one takes my comments above to mean that I support eliminating swamps and continuing the breakneck pace of urbanization here in Florida.  I'm certainly supportive of the measures listed to mitigate over-development.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Yep! Just got back from Bennington, Vermont over the Thanksgiving week. It was down to 3 degrees in the mornings for three days and up to the low 30's during the day. Lots of icy conditions, came back to better temps in PA. This not normal for this time of the year. I wonder what is yet to come when Winter does arrive? Break out the woolies season. Stay warm and keep palms and seeds growing!

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I do agree the urban heat island effect tends to make cities warmer than in the countryside. Twenty plus years ago our house was a 1/4 mile away from the nearest manmade structure and surrounded by miles of barren plains. Winter winds howled straight down from the north. Today I am surrounded by homes, apartments and businesses with a 6-lane highway 1-1/2 blocks away. Lots of masonry and asphalt to block and moderate north winds. All that said, my home sits on a freshwater canal and lake system that I still believe helps moderate winter lows in contrast to the many more offwater properties that don't have the advantage of adjacent water systems. Two or three degrees more may not seem a big deal but it can be the difference between damage or death for tropical vegetation.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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