Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

Best Method for Winter Protection?


ChrisA

Recommended Posts

As summer nears its end, I can’t help but think of the cold weather that is coming.  Miraculously, in this high desert, I’ve been able to get a filibusta established to the point that not only can I not protect it so well, but, outside of a freakishly bitter winter, it really does not need the protection.

 

However, I have two young palms, one newly planted this year, which are not robust and established. These need my best efforts for several more years until they are possibly large enough to balk at our average winter.  These are a Sabal uresana, planted in 2016, and a new Brahea armata, just planted in May of this year.  The sabal received zero damage, under an unheated plastic pop-up greenhouse during the winter of 2016/2017. This past winter with the same protection, during a much warmer winter, with the addition of Christmas lights, it lost all but one frond and the spear!  I am willing to change my scheme and do protection a bit differently. And given I have about three months to prep and get this ready before the nights start to get frigid, I want to have a game plan.  

 

What would the folks on this forum recommend for winter protection, which would allow the palms to safely overwinter for the next few years?  I would be most concerned with winter rot, if moisture were to get trapped, as well as too much of a greenhouse effect.  Winters aree can be quite sunny and that sun is still strong enough to cook an over-protected palm. Ideally the palm should be protected from frost and freeze such that the roots and fronds are protected, but able to breath, as well as the palm being able to stay dormant.  It’s really just the months of December, January, and February that can kill young palms that are otherwise tolerant of light degrees of frost.  Average lowest winter temp. here in Albuquerque, NM are about 15, but I could have 35-40 nights between 15 and 20 during those three months.

 

I would love to see what you do to protect your young, marginal palms, and what you’ve learned from experimenting with different methods.  Any advice you can offer?

Thanks in advance!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tying up the fronds and covering with towels or blankets does a good job of keeping the spear alive and can be done in ~5 minutes per palm.  I use it to keep coconuts alive at my location.  It doesn't trap enough heat to scorch palms during the daylight hours, so this and some Christmas lights might be enough to keep your palms alive without risking the overheating that a plastic tarp would.  You do have to change the towels or blankets if it rains or the snow melts though. 

For pictures, see this thread: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/55490-coconut-palms-vs-cold/

  • Upvote 1

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only damage my trachycarpus got were from roasting inside a greenhouse on a near 80f morning this past january. For a canopy it's great but unless you build in a better ventilation system than I did you're asking for trouble if your weather is a rollercoatser ride like here in the DMV. We went from highs in the 20s and 30s to a morning temp just over 80f. Thankfully I wake up early and got to them before it was too late but the fry had already happened.

 

Honestly the protection you provide depends on the palm and what weather is coming in the forecast. Personally I am going back to ondemand protection the next 2 winters. Before I let them go bare. Likely I will stake around my and less cold hardy ones so I can tarp them and remove the plastic quick and easy. But unless we have another 2018 event I'm leaving them be as the least cold hardy palm I have is a chamaerops humilis and it saw 15f or slightly lower its first year in ground and did fine.

 

So protection can range from mulching the roots a little to full blown greenhouses. Just depends on what's coming.

  • Upvote 1

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the link! I like the idea of covering with a solid color tarp as well, and possibly installing some sort of poles in order to protect from high winds.  Would you recommend Christmas lights, or would a water pipe wrap (with the included thermostat turning on below 38F) be a better option?  The fronds of a fan palm can be more difficult to tie up since they tend to be rigid when the splay out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ran incandescent rope lights for a "heat source" but I connected them to a thermocube so they didnt stay on for our yearly winter warm spells. 

20180210_104456.thumb.jpg.cba675a28412515a95a45d4ee20_2-27-18(alpha)Trachypulled

 

The framing was modded last minute and repaired twice due to gale force wind storms but it held up. Honestly protecting like this is not cheap or easy. I think hardware was around $100 and not reusable as it was designed to be MUCH smaller but I had to stretch the hardware so there was alot of cracked and split wood by spring time. 

Edited by mdsonofthesouth
  • Upvote 2

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, ChrisA said:

Thanks for the link! I like the idea of covering with a solid color tarp as well, and possibly installing some sort of poles in order to protect from high winds.  Would you recommend Christmas lights, or would a water pipe wrap (with the included thermostat turning on below 38F) be a better option?  The fronds of a fan palm can be more difficult to tie up since they tend to be rigid when the splay out. 

Most folks here recommend the old non-led Christmas lights, sometimes with the thermostat you mentioned.  No doubt that fan palms you have will be more challenging to tie and wrap.  If they are too stiff and bulky to tie effectively, you may have to go with the enclosure like @mdsonofthesouth.  As he also mentioned, protection depends on the weather predicted and the relative hardiness of the palm you're protecting.  In my case, I only have to protect coconuts, and usually only from about 5 degrees worth of cold.  Approximately how many degrees will you need to raise the temperature around your palms to keep them alive on a given night?

  • Upvote 1

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When they are still small and flexible enough, I have had great success with simply covering them with pine straw on cold nights. I throw it right on top so that the leaves are pinned to the ground. The ground is the best source of heat when you can make use of it. I had a lot of strap-leafed pindo and Chamaerops humilis seedlings in the ground this winter and they survived a 8-day stretch during which it did not get above freezing once, and the absolute low was 5 degrees F. Some leaves got burned, but most did not. Even the leaves of my Cycas panzhihuaensis survived this way (the caudex is buried). All my other cycads lost their leaves, but resprouted in the spring. Of course this won't work when my palms are bigger.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just got some bales of hay last week and I plan to duct tape those close to the trunks of my small palm-collection on below-freezing days this winter. First time I am trying it so please do let me know if anyone has experience with this method. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Nice link @GottmitAlex.  Definitely solid advice all the way around!

  • Upvote 2

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use "bubble foil" insulation available in rolls at home improvement stores. Foil on 2 sides. Bubbles in the middle. Does not get waterlogged. Does not allow hot sunlight in nor heat from Christmas lights out. Wrap and secure with a bungee.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good ventilation is key if you are covering or enclosing a palm in something. I rotted my Washingtonia robust because I wrapped the burlap around it so tightly. I should have made a small tent for it and put the heating wire around the trunk loosely, it would have kept it dry but still warm. 

PalmTreeDude

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Good ventilation is key if you are covering or enclosing a palm in something. I rotted my Washingtonia robust because I wrapped the burlap around it so tightly. I should have made a small tent for it and put the heating wire around the trunk loosely, it would have kept it dry but still warm. 

Also if you live in an area like ours that gets alot of warm spells a greenhouse will bake your plants right quick! In my humble opinion the green house needs to be done right lest you want a bunch of burnt plants. I'll be doing citrus next year but will be using a proper setup greenhouse for January and February.

  • Upvote 1

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all for the input! And GottmittAlex for that video link.  He talked out a lot of what I had concerns about.  And as he says, this is the time of the year when we should be getting prepped while we still have the time.  I hate working on these things the day the freezing air is arriving! :)

 

I think I will try a towel/old sheet wrap with the pipe heating wire enclosed within and outside of that maybe some conical bubble foil wrap to protect it all. That should take care of both the frost and concern of things getting too wet.  If it is well staked down it will be able to handle the wind as well. 

 

Now, I've better get cracking! I'll update this thread as I get this worked out. Thanks again Mdsonofthesouth, PalmTreeDude, TropicDoc, Kinzyjr, Swolte, GottMittAlex, and RaleighNC!

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I build these huts with Christmas lights on a thermocube inside.  Right under the roof on top is a 2" or so air vent all around.  Black weed fabric is on sun sides to keep temps low.

IMG_0703.JPG

IMG_0702.JPG

IMG_0696.JPG

  • Upvote 2

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/22/2018, 12:20:43, mdsonofthesouth said:

I ran incandescent rope lights for a "heat source" but I connected them to a thermocube so they didnt stay on for our yearly winter warm spells. 

20180210_104456.thumb.jpg.cba675a28412515a95a45d4ee20_2-27-18(alpha)Trachypulled

 

The framing was modded last minute and repaired twice due to gale force wind storms but it held up. Honestly protecting like this is not cheap or easy. I think hardware was around $100 and not reusable as it was designed to be MUCH smaller but I had to stretch the hardware so there was alot of cracked and split wood by spring time. 

I know some one who has been doing the same with rope lighting for years on his palms. He uses the rope here in WA all year long and gets many more leaves. I will be trying this on my B x Queen to see how it does come October. Rope lighting around his needle palm. 

 

DSC_0078.JPG

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all i'm new on here.

 I'm not trying to high jack the thread, i didn't want to start a new one, with same topic..

What about very cold winter protection? I'm in zone 5 just barely North east of 6. I'm going to attempt planting Windmills in the spring of 2019 they are having success in Montreal usda zone 4 so i think with proper protection i should have success as they do.

I love palms and started to google and found that many people are growing them in 5 and even colder. I'm southern coastal Maine except aside from Lat winter we don't see below 0 often.

TIA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, OOB Maine said:

Hi all i'm new on here.

 I'm not trying to high jack the thread, i didn't want to start a new one, with same topic..

What about very cold winter protection? I'm in zone 5 just barely North east of 6. I'm going to attempt planting Windmills in the spring of 2019 they are having success in Montreal usda zone 4 so i think with proper protection i should have success as they do.

I love palms and started to google and found that many people are growing them in 5 and even colder. I'm southern coastal Maine except aside from Lat winter we don't see below 0 often.

TIA

Your only option is a full enclosure with supplemental heat. 

This person was growing washingtonias in zone 4 in Alberta: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/1896218/growing-palm-trees-in-zone-3-4

I think they made enclosures out of PVC pipe with a Tee at the bottom that would allow them to add height to the enclosure as the palm grew.

  • Upvote 1

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Palm crazy said:

I know some one who has been doing the same with rope lighting for years on his palms. He uses the rope here in WA all year long and gets many more leaves. I will be trying this on my B x Queen to see how it does come October. Rope lighting around his needle palm. 

 

DSC_0078.JPG

 

That picture you have is 99% of my winter protection! A little mulch and a incandescent rope light on a thermocube. Works, but definitely wouldn't do it here as our summer + full sun = melted rope lights lol. But such is life.  

 

5 hours ago, OOB Maine said:

Hi all i'm new on here.

 I'm not trying to high jack the thread, i didn't want to start a new one, with same topic..

What about very cold winter protection? I'm in zone 5 just barely North east of 6. I'm going to attempt planting Windmills in the spring of 2019 they are having success in Montreal usda zone 4 so i think with proper protection i should have success as they do.

I love palms and started to google and found that many people are growing them in 5 and even colder. I'm southern coastal Maine except aside from Lat winter we don't see below 0 often.

TIA

 

Look into what island wide does for their customers. Youll need to wrap the tree up nice and tight and wrap in burlap with artificial heat  and a outer enclosure. Remember its sometimes not the absolute lows that will get you, rather the time spend under freezing. 5 straight days at 25f with no above freezing is a heck of alot more damaging than a couple hours at 10-15f then back above freezing. 

 

But it can be done! Just watch what they do and that might just work out where you are. 

 

https://www.islandwidepalmtrees.com/windmill-unwrapping.html

  • Upvote 1

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Your only option is a full enclosure with supplemental heat. 

This person was growing washingtonias in zone 4 in Alberta: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/1896218/growing-palm-trees-in-zone-3-4

I think they made enclosures out of PVC pipe with a Tee at the bottom that would allow them to add height to the enclosure as the palm grew.

Thanks for the link.

8 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Your only option is a full enclosure with supplemental heat. 

This person was growing washingtonias in zone 4 in Alberta: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/1896218/growing-palm-trees-in-zone-3-4

I think they made enclosures out of PVC pipe with a Tee at the bottom that would allow them to add height to the enclosure as the palm grew.

3 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

That picture you have is 99% of my winter protection! A little mulch and a incandescent rope light on a thermocube. Works, but definitely wouldn't do it here as our summer + full sun = melted rope lights lol. But such is life.  

 

 

Look into what island wide does for their customers. Youll need to wrap the tree up nice and tight and wrap in burlap with artificial heat  and a outer enclosure. Remember its sometimes not the absolute lows that will get you, rather the time spend under freezing. 5 straight days at 25f with no above freezing is a heck of alot more damaging than a couple hours at 10-15f then back above freezing. 

 

But it can be done! Just watch what they do and that might just work out where you are. 

 

https://www.islandwidepalmtrees.com/windmill-unwrapping.html

3 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

That picture you have is 99% of my winter protection! A little mulch and a incandescent rope light on a thermocube. Works, but definitely wouldn't do it here as our summer + full sun = melted rope lights lol. But such is life.  

 

 

Look into what island wide does for their customers. Youll need to wrap the tree up nice and tight and wrap in burlap with artificial heat  and a outer enclosure. Remember its sometimes not the absolute lows that will get you, rather the time spend under freezing. 5 straight days at 25f with no above freezing is a heck of alot more damaging than a couple hours at 10-15f then back above freezing. 

 

But it can be done! Just watch what they do and that might just work out where you are. 

 

https://www.islandwidepalmtrees.com/windmill-unwrapping.html

3 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

That picture you have is 99% of my winter protection! A little mulch and a incandescent rope light on a thermocube. Works, but definitely wouldn't do it here as our summer + full sun = melted rope lights lol. But such is life.  

 

 

Look into what island wide does for their customers. Youll need to wrap the tree up nice and tight and wrap in burlap with artificial heat  and a outer enclosure. Remember its sometimes not the absolute lows that will get you, rather the time spend under freezing. 5 straight days at 25f with no above freezing is a heck of alot more damaging than a couple hours at 10-15f then back above freezing. 

 

But it can be done! Just watch what they do and that might just work out where you are. 

 

Thanks.. 

These are the two places i found up in Montreal by you tube I'm amazed. There's videos on this one i still don't really know their exact method, I realize one wrong move and my future palms would be dead. Have you heard or seen this?

The language can be translated the videos in French https://www.paysagiste-expressiontropicale.com/actualites-videos.php

Montreal palms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRDfhuCuiKQ

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@OOB Maine You're welcome and thank you for sharing the links above.  Welcome to the forum as well!

  • Upvote 1

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good luck and happy palm growing! Keep us updated on your progress!

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...