Do Coconut Trees Grow in North and Central Baja/Sonora Mexico?

[Borderline Tropical]

More Coconuts in El Golfo de Santa Clara.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/DtmWSDTuUt131Jbz6

 

 

https://goo.gl/maps/MuzYnQ1v7AyKxZZh9

 

 

https://goo.gl/maps/URDMdKUgxP23xK5r8

Edited March 21, 2023 by Borderline Tropical

[Alex High]

On 3/21/2023 at 2:45 PM, Borderline Tropical said:

More Coconuts in El Golfo de Santa Clara.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/DtmWSDTuUt131Jbz6

 

 

https://goo.gl/maps/MuzYnQ1v7AyKxZZh9

 

 

https://goo.gl/maps/URDMdKUgxP23xK5r8

My gosh there are coconuts everywhere there, those are gorgeous! This should provide inspiration for those in the Arizona/SoCal low deserts. Plant those Cocos!

[PaPalmTrees]

cool @Alex

[Palmfarmer]

On 3/16/2023 at 11:56 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Have to do some Google Touring, but here are the zones for Chihuahua. Highly doubt there will be any Coconuts there though.




...and down toward where you're located..

I Can see coconuts do ok in the lowest elevation of the state at around 300 meter elevation. 

[Palmfarmer]

On 3/17/2023 at 7:04 PM, GottmitAlex said:

Durango has much better growing zones than Chihuaha does.

At least more good growing zones. At the lowlands of Chihuahua at around 300 meters I am sure Coconuts would grow. 

Once you go west in Durango you will drive over Sierra Madre. Once on top the nature changes drastically when you start driving down towards Mazatlan. In that complete western part bordering Sinaloa you can pretty much grow everything. 

[Silas_Sancona]

So ...with the " ...Can  ...Do   Coconuts fruit in Baja constantly in the back of mind, decided to do summore' googlee' turrin'  This time ending up in Loreto, roughly 145 miles north of La Paz, and 165 or so miles south of the Baja Norte / Sur state line.

Considering the current, prevailing assumption for the region, figured i'd find coconuts, but none that might show evidence of fruiting..

Instead.. i found these.. Found some others, but they're shaded ( sun angle ) or the quality of zoomed in images aren't good enough to make out nuts. 


 Guess we can table the " They don't fruit in Baja assumption a bit? "













And two unexpected trees.  One ( ..of a few ) examples of another tree i'd not expect to find in such a dry place.  Cordia sebestena Image capture #1.  ..And what sure looks like a Fern Tree, Filicium decipiens, Image capture #2.

[mnorell]

The late "Palm Desert coconut' fruited before its beheading, so I don't think it's at all a given that Cocos wouldn't fruit there. But of course there is a real problem with documenting it, at least in tourist areas, since many trees are likely to be stripped of their fruit to avoid the perceived danger of falling coconuts on unwary tourists. Those are really nice specimens you found.

And I think your capture #2 may be Simarouba glauca. Has a slightly coarser aspect than Filicium and I think more likely to be encountered in Mexico. A beautiful tree native to the Mexico-South Florida-Caribbean zone that isn't known in the U.S. much outside of South Florida (and then not even very much). I grew it in the Keys (it is used moderately there) and I thought it a very nice tree, though it was killed by the inundation of Irma, so its high landscape score gets docked a point for saltwater sensitivity. But one worthy of experimentation in marginal climates, including the desert southwest. I have found in my casual experimentation that many natives of the Florida Keys love the Sonoran Desert and can take the winters dependably, short of killing freezes (Cordia sebestena would be a BIG exception to that, it croaks when it feels a slight chill). But it's a bit hard to tell without a more close-up image with a feel for the scale of the leaves/leaflets.

 

[Silas_Sancona]

32 minutes ago, mnorell said:

The late "Palm Desert coconut' fruited before its beheading, so I don't think it's at all a given that Cocos wouldn't fruit there. But of course there is a real problem with documenting it, at least in tourist areas, since many trees are likely to be stripped of their fruit to avoid the perceived danger of falling coconuts on unwary tourists. Those are really nice specimens you found.

And I think your capture #2 may be Simarouba glauca. Has a slightly coarser aspect than Filicium and I think more likely to be encountered in Mexico. A beautiful tree native to the Mexico-South Florida-Caribbean zone that isn't known in the U.S. much outside of South Florida (and then not even very much). I grew it in the Keys (it is used moderately there) and I thought it a very nice tree, though it was killed by the inundation of Irma, so its high landscape score gets docked a point for saltwater sensitivity. But one worthy of experimentation in marginal climates, including the desert southwest. I have found in my casual experimentation that many natives of the Florida Keys love the Sonoran Desert and can take the winters dependably, short of killing freezes (Cordia sebestena would be a BIG exception to that, it croaks when it feels a slight chill). But it's a bit hard to tell without a more close-up image with a feel for the scale of the leaves/leaflets.

 

" Fern Tree " Could definitely be Simarouba,  but may be armara  rather than glauca since armana would be the easier to source from nearby..  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/291679-Simarouba-amara

Cordia is likely sebestena since it too is commonly grown nearby on the mainland.  Have to re find others i found in Hermosillo that show flowers better.   Only other possible common  " Red Flowered " Cordia would be C. dodecandra  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/209898-Cordia-dodecandra  but flowers / how the tree grows appear very distinct on that sp.   Would be hard to confuse, even from a distance,  w/ a decent eye. 

C. subcordata would be the only other Orange-flowered Cordia sp possibility,  but, out side of Hawaii, appears it hasn't been observed anywhere else in the U.S, Mexico, and/or Central America ..Which leads back to option #1.

[mnorell]

I'm sure also that is a C. sebestena. Not untenable that it would be growing a little north of La Paz in the warm Gulf of California. It just hates low 40s and below. I know, I have watched them die slowly, hammer after hammer after hammer until it slowly became toast. A real shame as it is one of my favorite trees and so very hardy in every other way, dangit.

Interestingly, there is a specimen of Simarouba glauca noted on GBIF in the same part of Baja...identified by the San Diego Museum of Natural History in a 2009 herbarium sheet they have on file. See record here (though note that the accompanying Lat/Long coordinates are completely wrong), located in El Comitan in Baja California Sur (and noted as being a cultivated specimen in the gardens of the CIB, or Centro de Investigaciones Biologicas, which is located there). I'm not familiar with S. amara which looks to be an absolutely huge rainforest tree...S. glauca is a manageable tree for residential and street purposes and handles drought quite well, so would at least in theory seem to be amenable to the climate and usage as a street-tree there (and which might also mesh with the idea of the CIB possibly planting/evaluating it there?). 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

Noting that Google toured around the area fairly recently ( May 2023 ), ..Some Fruiting  coconuts from Jocotepec and Ajijac, Jalisco, Mexico..  Elevation? ..Above  5K ft. 

Will be revisiting Coconut specimens i'd noted on past street view touring of the area as i find them again/ adding other interesting things as i come across them..

** Some addresses i jotted down are included. **

Near downtown Jocotepec.



215 Juarez ote, 5,057K ft.



87 Calle Emelia Zapata 5,277K ft



...Closer up...



35 La Paz



396 La Paz




16 Ramon Corona






Gi-normus Pseudobombax ( Likely ellipticum )  specimen in front of a large Cactus Nursery ( El Bajio area, halfway between Jocotepec and Ajijac ).  Full of seed.  ..Nursery also has a pretty modern and constantly updated facebook profile showing off some really nice cactus they grow, and numerous other interesting things visible from the road a few clicks south of this position. Not the only Pseudobombax specimen i noted in the area w/ seed hanging from it.




One ..of numerous Adonidia specimens i found in Jocotepec and Ajijic.


.

Current weather down there:  Looks a lot like our current forecast, haha.




From Mexico's 2012 Plant Maps data. Wouldn't doubt, whenever Mexico releases their update, that area will be -at least- 10B now:  ..More later....

[Silas_Sancona]

Sum'  more,  same area....

147 Cristobal Colon, 5,037K ft.  First time seeing any fruits forming on this kid.



108 Los Arcos. 5,059K ft. Up and coming specimens..






226 Ribera del Lago,  Chantepec. 5,209K ft. ..a bit east of Jocotepec along the shore of Lake Chapala, in Chantepec. Tallest Cocos i've found yet ..all with fruit in various stages of development ( closer up = Screen grabs #2, 3, and 4 )











Groups of Coconut specimens directly across from one another along Rivera del Lago, ( Also in Chantepec ) a bit west of the Ribera del Lago specimens..  Tall and all have fruit on 'em. 

Can easily see in the last 2 shots, below this group,  ..what sure look to me.. like mature ..or very close to fully mature nuts hanging off of it.  Address is 75 ( north side of the road ) and 58 ( side of the road that faces Lake Chapala ) elevation is 5,105K ft