I have tortured this seed for years now.

[Steve Mac]

I grew this Lyto Weddell with a couple of others from Sydney grown seed, a few years ago. 

The others died after one or two leaves emerged, of rot.

They were too wet, the potting mix was cheap and did not drain well enough.

So, over a year ago I repotted this one into a very fast draining premium potting mix.

(No, not fine bark 2, seramis 1) and it has not changed.

So apart from insufficient drainage, what else would cause this?

I have looked really hard for insect type pests, and have not found any. And the roots look good too.

I was just going to give it away when it looked good, we have three other big ones in the ground doing well,

but still I wondered, what could cause this incomplete opening?

[Steve Mac]

I have searched briefly through the input of a couple of specialists in this species, (Kai and Pal)  and I think that I found the problem.

" I hugged and kissed them.  They are not materialistic, so they enjoyed my caress much more than fertilizers or similar material things.  "

Problem solved. 

[Pal Meir]

Yes, you found it! That was the main problem.  Another only marginal problem seems to be the soil mix. I would transplant it very carefully (don’t break any (main) roots!) into a small pot with a coarser soil mixed with ±crushed LECA.

[Kai]

13 hours ago, gtsteve said:

I have searched briefly through the input of a couple of specialists in this species, (Kai and Pal)  and I think that I found the problem.

" I hugged and kissed them.  They are not materialistic, so they enjoyed my caress much more than fertilizers or similar material things.  "

Problem solved. 

I guess that's it! But you make it sound like we're some kind of hippies

[Steve Mac]

Mmmm. (Nodding)

[Missi]

On 7/15/2017, 9:36:08, Kai said:

I guess that's it! But you make it sound like we're some kind of hippies

 Are you not?!! 

[Kai]

9 minutes ago, Missi said:

 Are you not?!! 

I guess I am a palmhugging hippie then. Got no problem with that!

[Steve Mac]

Ok, I did as advised back in July (winter). It is only starting to warm up now.

There is now a new leaf, I can hardly wait to see if it opens better.

[lapalmeraie]

So you gave too much nutrients is that it? 

[Steve Mac]

Actually mate, I really still don't know. Spring is slow coming, it is not warming quickly here, growth is not fast.

I would not have thought that it got too much nutrient or water before. I don't use fertilizer, just a potting mix.

It was old though and probably not free draining enough. When new, the mix was 'fluffy' enough, but as it ages it packs down too much apparently.

I can't imagine that it was too much nutrients I never add fertilizer, but water yes.

I can see that years ago the mix was sufficient to sprout the seed,

but it settled too much after years of top watering and the bottom of the pot ceased to drain freely.

I usually prefer a larger pot because I often go away camping and don't water consistently.

But I would feel silly if I asked for advice and did not take it. So I reduced the size of the pot.

I have never understood how a pot could ever be too big. But I have a lot to learn.

Also in repotting I did learn that it had packed down more than I knew, and that now with the new mix,

if you put the pot on your hand and spit into it, you will wet your hand. Lovely!!   :-} 

 

[lapalmeraie]

Thanks!

20 hours ago, gtsteve said:

I have never understood how a pot could ever be too big. But I have a lot to learn.

I pots too big the soil remains easily too moist as the roots won't cover all the available soil 

[Jungle Jas.]

I would rather have a big pot and water it less, It saves on the root disturbance in the future.

[Steve Mac]

Update: there is no update, nothing has changed. Well not much anyway.

The new little spear in the last pic, taken 2 months ago,

from being repotted 6 months ago is the top tall spear in this latest pic.

Where my first mix may have held water like a spoon, this mix holds water like a fork.

Over a dozen different other palms seem happy in their position, but not this baby.

Probably just the runt of the litter.

There is yet another leaf appearing but I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to be any better, we will see.

Stupid Syagrus. 

[Kris]

On 10/26/2017, 11:30:22, Jungle Jas. said:

I would rather have a big pot and water it less, It saves on the root disturbance in the future.

Even i thought so.Please update us every 6 months.I like to know how its doing.

 

[Steve Mac]

Well despite the fact that we have several other Weddels quite happy in the garden near this seedling in the pot, this one is still not growing.

The potting mix drains very well. It is winter here now, maybe I should bring it inside, but I am still surprised that it did nothing in summer.

But it is good to know that I am not the only person to have a Lyto that just won't grow.

Those leaves that appeared to have opened a bit, I eased them all apart with a pin, and it was not easy.

There you go Kris.  

[Pal Meir]

12 hours ago, gtsteve said:

Well despite the fact that we have several other Weddels quite happy in the garden near this seedling in the pot, this one is still not growing.

The potting mix drains very well. It is winter here now, maybe I should bring it inside, but I am still surprised that it did nothing in summer.

But it is good to know that I am not the only person to have a Lyto that just won't grow.

Those leaves that appeared to have opened a bit, I eased them all apart with a pin, and it was not easy.

There you go Kris.  

As your soil mix is very (!!) coarse you should water the palm daily with soft (rain) water. Keep it indoors during the cold season at c. 20±5°C. Give it a shower weekly (or so) with warm water. Never let the roots get dry. If it does not grow don’t give any fert.

PS: My Lyto which would not grow bigger is now quite big. 

[Steve Mac]

Ok thanks, I will see what I can do,

that is more attention than I am used to giving to a plant, but I will try.  

I'll let you know in 6 months.

PS: If you have any more trouble with your Lyto growing too big,

let me know I can probably give you some tips on how to prevent that.   

[Pal Meir]

9 hours ago, gtsteve said:

PS: If you have any more trouble with your Lyto growing too big,

let me know I can probably give you some tips on how to prevent that.   

Oh, that is very kind of you.  I’ll ask you again when my Lytos will be bumping the ceiling of my home office. 

[Steve Mac]

I'm now thinking that it is not the potting mix or my variables but just a less viable natural variation, a genetic deficiency. The last shoot is still not opening normally after a month.

And the other fronds did not open either. I separated all of the leaflets apart with much difficulty and a pin. 

It is spring here now so I might just plant it in the garden with the other ones that are doing well and let nature take it's course. 

 It's new home will be under here.

[Pal Meir]

I don˝t think that it is genetic, but a matter of the roots. In the case it can grow healthy roots it will become a »normal« Lyto weddellianum.

[Steve Mac]

You are probably right, unfortunately I am unable to find the right balance for it,

Hopefully the garden will be better.

[Steve Mac]

Still after 7 months in the ground, the plant has with it's last leaf displayed the same characteristic of not opening properly.

I have again aided it with a pin and tweezers.  Perhaps next year it will improve. It only puts out about 1 leaf a year.

 

Also,  recently I found a long neglected pot with about 5 cm or 2 inches of garden soil originally , (mud now) some fine bark and debris that floats on the surface, (because it takes 20 minutes to drain)

and some seeds that may have been accidentally stuck to the bottom of my boots 10 months ago when I visited various places.

I wonder what they could be with their cute little monkey faces, looking like tiny smooth coconuts.

It's probably time to improve their conditions a bit. I'll go out and do that now. They were lucky to survive.

 

[Steve Mac]

Half an hour later.....

Now to forget them again for another 10 months.  :-) 

 

[Pal Meir]

Please don't torture those little monkeys too!

[Steve Mac]

Ok it has been about 6 months, so an update on my 5 lytos or for the new people more correctly known now as Syagrus weddelliana. 

My oldest seedling must be about 5 years old now  I suppose, unfortunately I do not have the typically Teutonic disposition for accurate and detailed record keeping. It has been in the ground now over winter and it is starting to warm up now. It predictably has not advanced much. It looks better than it should because I have opened out more of its leaflets better with a pin. The circled bit is not clear petiole but leaflets still stuck together which I have not got around to opening manually.   So no change there.

My other newer four seedlings are all looking good having continued to grow slowly through winter. And they even have their own stick with a name on it.

 

[Pal Meir]

Looking nice, your babies. Good luck!

[Merlyn]

On 10/2/2019 at 12:03 AM, gtsteve said:

My other newer four seedlings are all looking good having continued to grow slowly through winter. And they even have their own stick with a name on it.

Did you call one of them "George?"  

[Steve Mac]

Still slow with the last leaf failing to expand properly but I think George is a little better. It was easier to open manually, with a pin than before.

And the day after opening those little leaflets myself,

 

[Steve Mac]

The other seedlings are all doing well, but I had some unexpected luck with my biggest Weddle which seems to have some seeds forming. It did have one previous (the first) flower stalk which failed to produce young

[Laaz]

My Lytocaryum Hoehnei's seem to do much better in the ground. I added about 4 inches of crushed gravel to the bed for better drainage & then added about the some amount of topsoil. They are growing like weeds.

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Laaz

[Fusca]

6 hours ago, Laaz said:

My Lytocaryum Hoehnei's seem to do much better in the ground. I added about 4 inches of crushed gravel to the bed for better drainage & then added about the some amount of topsoil. They are growing like weeds.

 

 

 

Would love to see pics of yours in the ground!  

[Laaz]

[Laaz]

[Laaz]

[Steve Mac]

My Weddell seeds are still progressing in the garden, they are not quick, it has been months since I found them there.

[Steve Mac]

The plant that started this thread in July '17 still looks much the same. It has been in the ground for a year now, it still is not opening it's leaflets properly. When I put it in the garden I did put a lot of coarse mix in there with it to ensure good drainage, maybe in a few years it will be ok. My three other weddels in the ground are all slow too and my 4 other seedlings are slow too but look good with from 3 to 4 leaves.

 

[Pal Meir]

On 8/13/2020 at 9:40 AM, gtsteve said:

The plant that started this thread in July '17 still looks much the same. It has been in the ground for a year now, it still is not opening it's leaflets properly. When I put it in the garden I did put a lot of coarse mix in there with it to ensure good drainage, maybe in a few years it will be ok. My three other weddels in the ground are all slow too and my 4 other seedlings are slow too but look good with from 3 to 4 leaves.

 

Where are those seeds from?

If the seedlings have more than three non-pinnate strap leaves they may be Lytocaryum insigne; cf.:

[Steve Mac]

Mmmm, I forget where I got them from Pal but, that is a good observation. It would appear that those 4 seedlings are at this stage likely to be insignis and not weddelliana, from your example, as well as from my own pics. I will update as it becomes more clear.

I read on palmpedia that it is easier to differentiate between S. weddelliana and S. insignis when the palms are young rather than when they are older and have their adult pinnate leaves. Even plants in major gardens worldwide have been shown to have had some of their plants on display mislabeled. It may be that the plant from which these seeds came was not accurately identified.

[Pal Meir]

8 hours ago, gtsteve said:

Mmmm, I forget where I got them from Pal but, that is a good observation. It would appear that those 4 seedlings are at this stage likely to be insignis and not weddelliana, from your example, as well as from my own pics. I will update as it becomes more clear.

I read on palmpedia that it is easier to differentiate between S. weddelliana and S. insignis when the palms are young rather than when they are older and have their adult pinnate leaves. Even plants in major gardens worldwide have been shown to have had some of their plants on display mislabeled. It may be that the plant from which these seeds came was not accurately identified.

Yes, since Henderson’s Field Guide to the Palms of the Americas (1995) both species got put together to only one L weddellianum. But this (at least for all palm growers!) evident mistake was corrected by Noblick & Lorenzi only in 2010, so that during those c. 15 years all real L insigne were mis-labeled as L weddellianum.

[Pal Meir]

… this (at least for all palm growers!) evident mistake …; cf. also:

»Seeds of this species [Microcoelum insigne] often appear in batches of seed of M. weddellianum and can be readily distinguished by their broad, undivided seedling leaves.« (D. Jones: Palms in Australia, 1984,, p. 210)