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Cretan date palm


Laaz
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Getting ready to flower. This one is a female & no other male dates in the area. I have multiple other dates, but they haven't flowered yet.

2ykjg9e.jpg23vm6gw.jpg

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Post a new picture of the fully developed female inflorescence. Mine have not started yet blooming this year.

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Thusfar these dont seem as hardy as dacty or CIDP.  Almost all of the 3g cretans spear pulled while 1g cidp and dacty only had a few funky spears. 

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I was always under the impression that Theophrastii's like the humidity a little more than CIDP's and especially dactylifera. I've seen they can be an 8B palm. I have one still in a pot; I'm going to wait as long as I can till I put it in ground. 

 

Btw, those spines look vicious. The military should use the fronds from these in place of barbed wire. Lol

Edited by smithgn
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I grow them here in Florida.  They seem to have issues with leaf spot if not in full sun here.  I can attest that they are very spiny.  They draw blood pretty easily.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Speaking of these, I think a seller sent me the wrong seeds.  The seed on the left is definitely Phoenix Theophrastii.  The seed on the right is supposed to be theophrastii according to the label, but looks more like dactylifera or acaulis.

20170310_2300_CretanDatePalmSeeds.png

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Those are great looking palms Laaz. Thanks for posting the pics. I've never seen any of these in person that I am aware of, so I appreciate getting to see them from afar. It may not be as much fun as seeing them in person, but the risk of running afoul of those spines is quite low from my living room. :D

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You may very well be right Kinzyjr ... at least from my perspective.

Cheers, Barrie.

 

 

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2017‎ ‎8‎:‎13‎:‎04‎, kinzyjr said:

Speaking of these, I think a seller sent me the wrong seeds.  The seed on the left is definitely Phoenix Theophrastii.  The seed on the right is supposed to be theophrastii according to the label, but looks more like dactylifera or acaulis.

20170310_2300_CretanDatePalmSeeds.png

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 15/4/2017, 7:27:31, Laaz said:

The flowers are starting to open. Looks like male flowers?

 

4qik5e.jpgfazn1v.jpg

34nmsdj.jpg2zhk4gk.jpg

Very detailed and meticulous trim work on the spines! Do you plan having access to the flowers?

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No, I have no other date palms blooming roght now. I try & keep the spines cut back a bit because my wife hates the spines.

Edited by Laaz
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  • 1 month later...

Got 25 seeds from a seller on eBay.  18 of them sprouted in a month.  Looks like a spiny forest I shall have. :)

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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  • 4 weeks later...

Some new recruits:

20170618_0653_PhoenixTheophrasti.png

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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  • 9 months later...
On 4/15/2017, 11:27:31, Laaz said:

The flowers are starting to open. Looks like male flowers?

I guess your theophrasti is flowering again by now.  I think I remember seeing these in your post about the cold weather and they didn't get much damage if any, am I remembering right?  How is the growth rate compared to canariensis?  I just got this one a couple of weeks ago from Joe.  Spiny indeed!

 

On 6/18/2017, 5:37:56, kinzyjr said:

Some new recruits:

How are the new recruits?  I'm guessing that you've got some bigger theophrastis also?  Do either of you guys had any problem with graphiola leaf spot on these or other Phoenix palms?

027.JPG

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Jon Sunder

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13 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I guess your theophrasti is flowering again by now.  I think I remember seeing these in your post about the cold weather and they didn't get much damage if any, am I remembering right?  How is the growth rate compared to canariensis?  I just got this one a couple of weeks ago from Joe.  Spiny indeed!

 

How are the new recruits?  I'm guessing that you've got some bigger theophrastis also?  Do either of you guys had any problem with graphiola leaf spot on these or other Phoenix palms?

027.JPG

 Ten bucks says she triples in size this year. I really need to get those in 15g or the ground. They need out of those pots....

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1 minute ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Ten bucks says she triples in size this year.

I hope you're right!  I also have a dactylifera that I purchased back in 2014 as a 15 gallon (a little larger than the theo).  Unfortunately it's been transplanted a few times due to moving and it's also suffered from graphiola leaf spot - both of which seem to have slowed it down considerably.  I think it's only pushed out 2 new leaves in the past year but it seems to be picking up speed now.  Hasn't lost any leaves in the past year either, but I cut off several leaves during the previous year because of the graphiola which I hope is now in the past!  I don't think graphiola would be a problem for you in Dallas.

Jon Sunder

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Allow me the assumption, that a female specimen can be recognized before blooming by its very caespitose habit.

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@Fusca All of my phoenix dactylifera and phoenix theophrasti get graphiola leaf spot.  The new recruits are doing OK.  I have a few in larger pots and a bunch of seedlings I just started late last year (November).

Even in spite of graphiola leaf spot, my seed grown dactylifera grow right through it: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/52296-palms-and-others-of-interest/

I had some theophrasti with mature fronds, but I had to move them and they didn't quite make the move.  At this point, I have about 30 of them, but they are juvenile at this point.

 

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Speaking of the new recruits, here they are:

 

20180404171900_PhoenixTheophrasti_NR_01.jpg

20180404171924_PhoenixTheophrasti_NR_00.jpg

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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I love the Cretan Date Palm.  I purchased 5 seeds online off eBay from a seller in Romania last year and sprouted them in a wet paper towel.

 

Four germinated.  All they were were little individual fronds.  They didn't even have a center spear, yet.  Of those four, only two survived the winter.  I left them outside almost all winter.  It was the coldest January in 100 years here in NC, and they saw many 20 degree nights.  I wanted to see how tough the little babies were.  The two survivors I moved into the greenhouse and they are both pushing out a green spear from the center and a second frond.  We will see how they progress through the summer.  I haven't spent nearly as much time caring for them as they deserved.  I probably could have four if I cared for them...but I wanted the strongest one.

Edited by Anthony_B
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13 hours ago, Anthony_B said:

I love the Cretan Date Palm.  I purchased 5 seeds online off eBay from a seller in Romania last year and sprouted them in a wet paper towel.

 

Four germinated.  All they were were little individual fronds.  They didn't even have a center spear, yet.  Of those four, only two survived the winter.  I left them outside almost all winter.  It was the coldest January in 100 years here in NC, and they saw many 20 degree nights.  I wanted to see how tough the little babies were.  The two survivors I moved into the greenhouse and they are both pushing out a green spear from the center and a second frond.  We will see how they progress through the summer.  I haven't spent nearly as much time caring for them as they deserved.  I probably could have four if I cared for them...but I wanted the strongest one.

I just planted about 500 Trachycarpus Waggie seeds I harvested from the plants at my parents house in December. Should see some results in the next month, if you want to part with one of those Theoprastii. I would trade you extra for one, if not I'll give you some anyway.....;-).

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On 4/5/2018, 7:38:51, frienduvafrond said:

I just planted about 500 Trachycarpus Waggie seeds I harvested from the plants at my parents house in December. Should see some results in the next month, if you want to part with one of those Theoprastii. I would trade you extra for one, if not I'll give you some anyway.....;-).

I am holding onto the two survivors for dear life.  I'm hoping I can get them to trunk because I'd like to actually see if they can live in NC.

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6 hours ago, Anthony_B said:

I am holding onto the two survivors for dear life.  I'm hoping I can get them to trunk because I'd like to actually see if they can live in NC.

Totally understandable. I will earmark some Waggies for you, I am hoping for at least 50% germination. With some maturity and proper placement you should be good with the Theoprastii, That is if Theoprastii is truly the most cold hardy. Last time I looked the CIDP at the Checkers on Oleander drive was pushing out a new spear, and had absolutely no protection this year, time will tell. I am going to check on the 25 year old Phoenix Sylvestris at Carolina Beach today, it was looking bad a month ago, but was trying to push out a spear. There is also a Phoenix of some sort at a gas station on Carolina Beach rd near legion stadium. It is a form that does not trunk much, but I am not that good at identifying Phoenix (auculis?) It recoverd from 2014, but I am not sure it's going to make it this time. I should do a drive by H2O2?

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@Anthony_B @frienduvafrond

I've heard that they are the most hardy, and then I've heard they are slightly less hardy than phoenix dactylifera.  I guess the jury is still out.  It may also depend on growing conditions.  Most phoenix sp. are more hardy out west than in our humid climates in the east.  Since you have a CIDP nearby, they will probably grow for a while until you get some kind of unusual cold event.  Here, the biggest problem for them is graphiola leaf spot.  I sprayed the ones I had in the ground before, and the spray did more damage than the leaf spot.  They do grow vigorously, so I tend to let them to their own devices.  Wonderful palms, but make sure to wear eye protection and long sleeves at a minimum when you trim them.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Our 5G plants suffered substantially less spear damage than they did last year when they were 1/3 the size and it was colder in that house than last year, so that is promising.  I'll put a few in the ground this year and see how they hold up compared to the dactylifera. They are vigorous growers for sure; neck and neck with CIDP and will flat out run away from dactylifera.

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1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

@Anthony_B @frienduvafrond

I've heard that they are the most hardy, and then I've heard they are slightly less hardy than phoenix dactylifera.  I guess the jury is still out.  It may also depend on growing conditions.  Most phoenix sp. are more hardy out west than in our humid climates in the east.  Since you have a CIDP nearby, they will probably grow for a while until you get some kind of unusual cold event.  Here, the biggest problem for them is graphiola leaf spot.  I sprayed the ones I had in the ground before, and the spray did more damage than the leaf spot.  They do grow vigorously, so I tend to let them to their own devices.  Wonderful palms, but make sure to wear eye protection and long sleeves at a minimum when you trim them.

I haven't brought them in in months.  I have a little pop-up greenhouse.  I also bought a little tiny seedling CIDP last year and it has turned into an 18" tall beast over the past 12 months.  I screwed up one night and left my 3G CIDP outside and it hit 23 degrees and the basically 1.5 year old CIDP was just fine.  So the "barely" seedling Cretan's in the greenhouse were fine as well.  Tough to tell which is hardier because the CIDP has a visible trunk already and the Cretan's are single blades of grass still, but I think in 1-2 years I should be able to tell if I can keep them alive.

I've been leaving the CIDP in the greenhouse 24/7 over the past month and you can practically watch it grow.  It is so hot and humid in there by midday, it is just loving it.  So I'm keeping all 3 in there for awhile to accelerate their growth.

Edited by Anthony_B
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4 hours ago, frienduvafrond said:

Totally understandable. I will earmark some Waggies for you, I am hoping for at least 50% germination. With some maturity and proper placement you should be good with the Theoprastii, That is if Theoprastii is truly the most cold hardy. Last time I looked the CIDP at the Checkers on Oleander drive was pushing out a new spear, and had absolutely no protection this year, time will tell. I am going to check on the 25 year old Phoenix Sylvestris at Carolina Beach today, it was looking bad a month ago, but was trying to push out a spear. There is also a Phoenix of some sort at a gas station on Carolina Beach rd near legion stadium. It is a form that does not trunk much, but I am not that good at identifying Phoenix (auculis?) It recoverd from 2014, but I am not sure it's going to make it this time. I should do a drive by H2O2?

I had no idea there was a CIDP there.  That must be the only one in all of Wilmington.  I've never noticed it before.

CIDP-1.thumb.jpg.d55ac3ae459b6d94e5adea7

The only CIDP I know of in New Hanover County is at Kure Beach, and it isn't very big.

CIDP-2.thumb.jpg.eb64501a6224b31c1f67935

 

I know of about a half dozen of them or so in Brunswick County - a handful at the various beaches and the big one at the abandoned nursery on the way to Southport.  I have this idea that I would love to have a big, towering CIDP in front a house in NC, but it is unlikely.  Even if I could get it to survive, it probably would look terrible from a constant defoliation cycle.  I'd be one of those guys that would fight the climate for years, it would eventually get toasted and I'll give up and wind up with a sabal palmetto like everyone else.

 

This area is about 3-4 nights a year away from having so much landscaping possibility.  I love the weather here, but I swear, subtracting 3 select nights a year would turn us from an 8A to a 9A/9B.  Too bad.

 

If you're interested in Cretan date palm seeds, I just got the seeds off eBay.  If you buy them and stick them in a wet paper towel in a ziploc bag now, you'll probably be able to plant them in 6 weeks.  They take about 3 weeks to sprout using that method, and another 3 weeks to get a nice, healthy root.  By the end of summer, you'll probably catch up to my seedlings.  There are a bunch of seeds on there now for about $5.  Go for it!

Edited by Anthony_B
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On 3/8/2017, 12:44:04, Laaz said:

Getting ready to flower. This one is a female & no other male dates in the area. I have multiple other dates, but they haven't flowered yet.

2ykjg9e.jpg23vm6gw.jpg

natives of Crete they are very cool looking. Nice.

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On 4/8/2018, 6:53:41, frienduvafrond said:

Totally understandable. I will earmark some Waggies for you, I am hoping for at least 50% germination. With some maturity and proper placement you should be good with the Theoprastii, That is if Theoprastii is truly the most cold hardy. Last time I looked the CIDP at the Checkers on Oleander drive was pushing out a new spear, and had absolutely no protection this year, time will tell. I am going to check on the 25 year old Phoenix Sylvestris at Carolina Beach today, it was looking bad a month ago, but was trying to push out a spear. There is also a Phoenix of some sort at a gas station on Carolina Beach rd near legion stadium. It is a form that does not trunk much, but I am not that good at identifying Phoenix (auculis?) It recoverd from 2014, but I am not sure it's going to make it this time. I should do a drive by H2O2?

A little update: I went by the Checkers a couple hours ago.  The CIDP is chopped down to the top.  I don't know if it will come back, but it looks dead as a door nail :(

It is going to be interesting to see this place by the end of October.  The devastation is so widespread.

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On 4/8/2018, 10:43:38, Anthony_B said:

This area is about 3-4 nights a year away from having so much landscaping possibility.  I love the weather here, but I swear, subtracting 3 select nights a year would turn us from an 8A to a 9A/9B.  Too bad.

Lol, that’s exactly how I always think of my area. 3-4 nights away from being 10A. 

Oh how i wish I could grow crown shaft( Royal, King Palm etc.) palms in my area. I’m not greedy, lol. If i could just have ONE or perhaps two species survive, I’d be a very happy man :D

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58 minutes ago, Estlander said:

Lol, that’s exactly how I always think of my area. 3-4 nights away from being 10A. 

Oh how i wish I could grow crown shaft( Royal, King Palm etc.) palms in my area. I’m not greedy, lol. If i could just have ONE or perhaps two species survive, I’d be a very happy man :D

Start lobbying for a ~10,000 foot wall on the Canadian border ;)  It would save me from having to cover anything at all here.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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15 hours ago, Anthony_B said:

A little update: I went by the Checkers a couple hours ago.  The CIDP is chopped down to the top.  I don't know if it will come back, but it looks dead as a door nail :(

It is going to be interesting to see this place by the end of October.  The devastation is so widespread.

Yeah as in another post the old Phoenix at Carolina Beach got axed. (was worth waiting a bit imho). That little one at Checkers has been touph, made it through 2014. I am sure who ever planted it had no idea what they were putting in, but it has that nice concrete micro-climate. There was  a CIDP at the Hooters in town for at least 15 years. It never died , but became more trunk than fronds and got rather ugly so they removed it. On the bright side I did see some Washingtonia at Carolina Beach yesterday pushing out green fronds. I was impressed as most are still brown. I head to my parents at Kure beach every weekend, and the damage from this winter just seems to look progressively worse each week. Yeah this will be an interesting year indeed.

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Decided to put one in the ground to replace my now deceased archontophoenix alexandrae.  This little guy had a 1 gallon pot full of roots arleady:

 

20180416_170831_PhoenixTheophrasti_1024.jpg

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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The only date palms that I am germinating are Phoenix dactylifera using the baggy method with peat moss and perlite. I love date palms and if I were in the right climate I would plant the seedlings in a heart beat. @Laaz Were your date palms damaged this winter at all? I am curious to know how date palms do in Charleston. I know they do well on Hilton Head Island so I am assuming Charleston has pretty similar results. Although I did see you post a picture after the event of a date palm defoliated. 

PalmTreeDude

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