Sabal minor At Their Range Limits?

[tjwalters]

5 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

5 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

naturalized at dc arbetorium

Doesn't count but I would like some seed of that. 

Naturalizing 8 miles NE of the Arboretum...

[VA Jeff]

On 1/4/2021 at 5:41 PM, climate change virginia said:

speaking of alligators there have been some sightings of alligators in extreme south east Virginia could be a dumped pet or one that went exploring a little too far it could be from climate change but no one knows for sure

Gators are still native to some of the waterways that connect to rivers/creeks/estuaries that flow into Southside Hampton Roads.  I suspect the occasional wandering male shows up from time to time.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

On 22/02/2017 at 8:39 PM, PalmTreeDude said:

Anyone have any pictures of native Sabal minor at just about their fattest northern ranges? I want to see more Sabal minors at their limits, inspired by this awesome thread: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/52756-sabal-minor-in-habitat-mccurtain-county-ok/

Is there any in Knotts Island, because then they can extend into the Virginia part of the island.

[PalmTreeDude]

22 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Is there any in Knotts Island, because then they can extend into the Virginia part of the island.

It would be very hard to find any Sabal minor in the area, if they are even there naturally, because it is a very flat swamp/marsh environment that not a lot of people are willing to go out into in search of plants, endless it were a PalmTalk member who was searching! 

[GoatLockerGuns]

On 1/31/2021 at 1:05 PM, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Is there any in Knotts Island, because then they can extend into the Virginia part of the island.

 

1 hour ago, PalmTreeDude said:

It would be very hard to find any Sabal minor in the area, if they are even there naturally, because it is a very flat swamp/marsh environment that not a lot of people are willing to go out into in search of plants, endless it were a PalmTalk member who was searching!

I used to live in Chesapeake, Virginia from 2007 to 2010.  I have been canoeing/fishing around Knotts Island.  As @PalmTreeDudesaid, it is mostly marsh...lots of Typha sp. (Cat's Tail Reed), but I saw no Sabal minor.  I have hiked extensively in Back Bay National Wildlife Refuge and False Cape State Park.  I saw plenty of Quercus virginiana (Live Oak) and Tillandsia usneoides (Spanish Moss) growing there; however, I never spotted in any Sabal minor (although, it looks like the kind of place you would find Sabal minor).  I never saw any Sabal minor growing in the Dismal Swamp either (at least not along the Washington Ditch, Portsmouth Ditch, The Dismal Swamp Canal Trail in Chesapeake, or Dismal Swamp State Park in North Carolina).  I have also hiked in First Landing State Park (Virginia Beach), Northwest River Park (Chesapeake), and Merchants Mill Pond State Park (North Carolina), and never saw any Sabal minor there either.  I am not saying it is not growing wild there, but I never noticed any from the trails (and I am the kind of person who would take notice of Sabal minor if I saw it there).  If its growing wild there, its most likely in areas that are not very accessible to most people.  I remember seeing some Sabal palmetto being grown as ornamentals in Sandbridge though (actually all over coastal Virginia Beach).  I would not be surprised if people are landscaping with Sabal minor in Virginia Beach as well.

[RaleighNC]

On 1/31/2021 at 2:05 PM, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Is there any in Knotts Island, because then they can extend into the Virginia part of the island.

The northernmost natural population of S. minor in NC appears to be in Martin County. That population was discovered in 2004. A short paper was published about it in 2008:

http://www.jstor.org/stable/4034272

[PalmTreeDude]

1 hour ago, RaleighNC said:

The northernmost natural population of S. minor in NC appears to be in Martin County. That population was discovered in 2004. A short paper was published about it in 2008:

http://www.jstor.org/stable/4034272

Since then the Monkey Island population was found in Currituck County, and there is one posted just north of Corolla on iNaturalist that I believe is credible because the surrounding area looks exactly like it actually does there. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by PalmTreeDude
Typo

[RaleighNC]

10 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Since then the Monkey Island population was found in Currituck County, and there is one posted just north of Corolla on iNaturalist that I believe is credible because the surrounding area looks exactly like it actually does there. 

Oops, I should have read the entire string of posts.  Thanks for the correction!

[frewworld]

just an update on my sabal minors growing in Southern Indiana.  I have 1000's of seeds if anyone is interested.   I also have seedlings growing everywhere but I don't know how successful i would be in pulling these up.  if anyone wants some tri-foliate orange seeds, i have 1000's of these as well. 

[donofriojim1]

10 hours ago, frewworld said:

just an update on my sabal minors growing in Southern Indiana.  I have 1000's of seeds if anyone is interested.   I also have seedlings growing everywhere but I don't know how successful i would be in pulling these up.  if anyone wants some tri-foliate orange seeds, i have 1000's of these as well. 

Where at in Southern Indiana? I planted a sabal minor mc curtain at my in laws house in Madison, Indiana 

[frewworld]

13 hours ago, donofriojim1 said:

Where at in Southern Indiana? I planted a sabal minor mc curtain at my in laws house in Madison, Indiana 

Evansville Indiana.  We're very southwestern tip along river.  I also have two sabal birmingham palmetto's I planted from seed 4 years ago. They are about 1.5 ft now with full fronds.  It's killing me how slow they are growing, but have tolerated our weather unprotected.

[donofriojim1]

1 minute ago, frewworld said:

Evansville Indiana.  We're very southwestern tip along river.  I also have two sabal birmingham palmetto's I planted from seed 4 years ago. They are about 1.5 ft now with full fronds.  It's killing me how slow they are growing, but have tolerated our weather unprotected.

I'm in Cincinnati. I have several sabal minor and Needle palms in my yard that never get protection other than good placement 

[frewworld]

6 hours ago, donofriojim1 said:

I'm in Cincinnati. I have several sabal minor and Needle palms in my yard that never get protection other than good placement 

Wow! that's great to see sabal's growing in Cincinnati!   Have you tried windmill palms yet?  I had two I planted years ago that grew to about 20ft tall.  I protected these each winter, but at 20Ft it became very difficult and when we had a couple days of really cold weather in 2019 I lots both.

[Palmerr]

Colonial Williamsburg VA Has sabal minor in the forest areas when i visited

[PaPalmTrees]

4 minutes ago, Palmerr said:

Colonial Williamsburg VA Has sabal minor in the forest areas when i visited

do you take any  pictures??

[PaPalmTrees]

12 minutes ago, Palmerr said:

Colonial Williamsburg VA Has sabal minor in the forest areas when i visited

If you don't have any pictures What area did you see than in?

[Palmerr]

49 minutes ago, PaPalmTrees said:

do you take any  pictures??

i just checked i didnt i did take a pic of a yucca just not the minor i saw 

[Palmerr]

Ima try and find if anybody snapped a pic of one oh and it was at jamestown settlement in Williamsburg VA

[PaPalmTrees]

2 minutes ago, Palmerr said:

Ima try and find if anybody snapped a pic of one oh and it was at jamestown settlement in Williamsburg VA

Ok Thank you.

[Palmerr]

there is tons of spanish dagger yucca there like a lot

[PaPalmTrees]

3 hours ago, Palmerr said:

there is tons of spanish dagger yucca there like a lot

Yeah they are everywhere, I was there a few years ago And i Saw so many Southern Magnolias and southern live oaks in the woods.

[Palmerr]

13 hours ago, PaPalmTrees said:

Yeah they are everywhere, I was there a few years ago And i Saw so many Southern Magnolias and southern live oaks in the woods.

Never noticed the Live oaks lol but i saw a lotta southern magnolia but when you first enter there is a fence to the left i think i dont know we were a group being taken around by a tour guide but anyways it was outside a fence planted there i thought it was sooo cool!

[PaPalmTrees]

1 hour ago, Palmerr said:

Never noticed the Live oaks lol but i saw a lotta southern magnolia but when you first enter there is a fence to the left i think i dont know we were a group being taken around by a tour guide but anyways it was outside a fence planted there i thought it was sooo cool!

I'm sorry I should have been a little more clear I meant like driving on the highway  sorry.

[Palmerr]

5 hours ago, PaPalmTrees said:

I'm sorry I should have been a little more clear I meant like driving on the highway  sorry.

Ohh lol yeah i was like huh dont remember seeing live oak there i also saw spanish dagger at the hotel i stayed at OH there was a trachy at great wolf lodge!

[Palmerr]

i meant oh not like ohio lol

[PaPalmTrees]

4 hours ago, Palmerr said:

Ohh lol yeah i was like huh dont remember seeing live oak there i also saw spanish dagger at the hotel i stayed at OH there was a trachy at great wolf lodge!

When I was in Williamsburg a few years ago I stayed at great wolf lodge And there's a restaurant next to it that has a lot of needle palms.https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3506926,-76.7301917,3a,42.5y,228.1h,98.32t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNSImv1PH35oPKv2xGhvqAMmzrVNc6ftmmhu-S6!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNSImv1PH35oPKv2xGhvqAMmzrVNc6ftmmhu-S6%3Dw900-h600-k-no-pi-8.31601967902013-ya67.81356291498727-ro0-fo100!7i7680!8i3840?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDExNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[PaPalmTrees]

4 hours ago, Palmerr said:

was a trachy at great wolf lodge!

It must be new because when I was there I didn't see one?

[Palmerr]

17 hours ago, PaPalmTrees said:

It must be new because when I was there I didn't see one?

hmm when did you visit i visited may

[PaPalmTrees]

6 minutes ago, Palmerr said:

hmm when did you visit i visited may

January 2023

[Palmerr]

17 hours ago, PaPalmTrees said:

When I was in Williamsburg a few years ago I stayed at great wolf lodge And there's a restaurant next to it that has a lot of needle palms.https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3506926,-76.7301917,3a,42.5y,228.1h,98.32t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNSImv1PH35oPKv2xGhvqAMmzrVNc6ftmmhu-S6!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh3.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNSImv1PH35oPKv2xGhvqAMmzrVNc6ftmmhu-S6%3Dw900-h600-k-no-pi-8.31601967902013-ya67.81356291498727-ro0-fo100!7i7680!8i3840?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDExNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

THATS WHAT I SAW yeah i think it was near a Southern mag? I didn't know that was a restaurant i also didnt know that was a needle? Still cool tho