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Sabal Uresana varieties & cold hardiness


TexasColdHardyPalms

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2 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

I have lived and Worked in Houston/College Station. All the publicly available weather station in and around metro Houston, the warmest spot was 25. I think wind protection played a factor in those surviving palms. I saw all Dead Kings, Royals, Foxtails all the way to, and on Galveston Island. Even a couple wind exposed Royals died at Moody Gardens.

Seems like the SW Loop area (Montrose, Midtown, TMC, Museum District) managed to evade the brunt of earlier hard freezes in 2010, 2011, and 2014. Foxtails persisted until the freeze in 2017 and the big freeze in 2018 was the final nail in the coffin for remnant tropical plantings from the 90s/2000s in Houston (rip). The past two years have been very mild though, who knows maybe we'll another decade or two of mild winters :)

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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  • 9 months later...
On 3/26/2017 at 2:55 AM, Jdiaz31089 said:

I wonder if this has anything to do with the distinction between uresana and a supposed "oregana" or "select blue " from this post.

@Josue Diaz do you still have your Sabal 'oregana'?  Has it grown fast for you in the Fresno heat?  Would love to see a recent pic.  I think you're right that it's the 'mountain blue' form of uresana.

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Jon Sunder

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On 8/30/2018 at 5:41 PM, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

Typical DMV winter: Average highs in the low 40s and high 20s for lows with obvious spikes from 3f to nearly 90f depending on the day with mostly rain and 0-20in of snow for the year that melts pretty fast with most storms being in the dusting to 6in range and the occasional blizzard of 12-18in every 6-10 years. 

your lucky in Maryland where you live we never get snow anymore where I live I haven't gone sledding in years.

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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11 hours ago, Fusca said:

@Josue Diaz do you still have your Sabal 'oregana'?  Has it grown fast for you in the Fresno heat?  Would love to see a recent pic.  I think you're right that it's the 'mountain blue' form of uresana.

Yeah, i still have it, but it's not nearly as fast as i thought it would be. I'll try to get a good picture of it, but here's one in the meantime. The uresana is dead in the center in front of the silvery Encelia farinosa, below the pink echeveria bloom. 

20201022_191036.jpg

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19 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

Yeah, i still have it, but it's not nearly as fast as i thought it would be.

Josue, it looks great but yeah doesn't appear to be so fast.  Much bluer than my coastal uresana.  Look forward to seeing a close-up pic.

IMG_20200607_203705.thumb.jpg.873beee94fbfbc68b10bc0440dea70dc.jpg

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Jon Sunder

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14 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

your lucky in Maryland where you live we never get snow anymore where I live I haven't gone sledding in years.

Haven't had enough snow for that in a couple of years and even then it melts right away.

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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29 minutes ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

Haven't had enough snow for that in a couple of years and even then it melts right away.

Just a week ago it snowed here and at 8 AM it looked completely white out, then by the time it was 1 PM there was absolutely no snow left, not even little tiny patches of it. 

PalmTreeDude

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12 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Just a week ago it snowed here and at 8 AM it looked completely white out, then by the time it was 1 PM there was absolutely no snow left, not even little tiny patches of it. 

what part of Virginia do you live in?

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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3 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

what part of Virginia do you live in?

Central Virginia, close to Richmond. 

PalmTreeDude

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3 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Central Virginia, close to Richmond. 

oh I live near occquacon river

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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  • 10 months later...

Bump. How did Sabal uresana do with last years bad winter? Anyone still think this is capable of surviving long term in zone 7?

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  • 1 year later...
On 12/23/2019 at 1:53 AM, Meangreen94z said:

An old thread, but I thought I would add photos from Peckerwood Gardens for reference. Absolutely no touch up performed, this is what they look like in person on a mostly overcast day.
http://www.agaveville.org/download/file.php?id=63792http://www.agaveville.org/download/file.php?id=63793

http://www.agaveville.org/download/file.php?id=63791

http://www.agaveville.org/download/file.php?id=63794

I can attest to this. I was recently there and those palms look almost white in person. I have a lot of uresana growing from seeds I collected over a decade ago at the University of Arizona, and while they're blue, they're nothing like the ones at Peckerwood.

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sticker.gif?zipcode=78015&template=stick

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6 hours ago, fr8train said:

I can attest to this. I was recently there and those palms look almost white in person. I have a lot of uresana growing from seeds I collected over a decade ago at the University of Arizona, and while they're blue, they're nothing like the ones at Peckerwood.

I’ve heard the offspring aren’t as “white” either, wonder if it’s soil?

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22 minutes ago, RJ said:

I’ve heard the offspring aren’t as “white” either, wonder if it’s soil?

That's interesting, I didn't know that about the offspring not sharing this trait. I wonder?

sticker.gif?zipcode=78015&template=stick

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4 hours ago, RJ said:

I’ve heard the offspring aren’t as “white” either, wonder if it’s soil?

Yuccado offered a blue/silver variant but I’m not sure it was of the same lineage as the palms John Fairey collected from decades ago in Mexico. The times I’ve talked to Craig and others at John Fairey Garden(on the former Yuccado grounds) those original palms have never produced viable seed, or atleast that they admit to. The younger palms planted in the garden are more of a blue. I’m not sure if the silver/white color appears later or if they are of a different lineage than the older palms.

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2 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

Yuccado offered a blue/silver variant but I’m not sure it was of the same lineage as the palms John Fairey collected from decades ago in Mexico. The times I’ve talked to Craig and others at John Fairey Garden(on the former Yuccado grounds) those original palms have never produced viable seed, or atleast that they admit to. The younger palms planted in the garden are more of a blue. I’m not sure if the silver/white color appears later or if they are of a different lineage than the older palms.

They will have a few of the blue Urusana on sale (straplings) this Saturday at the Budding out festival. I'll see you there?
:) 

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9 hours ago, Swolte said:

They will have a few of the blue Urusana on sale (straplings) this Saturday at the Budding out festival. I'll see you there?
:)

Wish they shipped, I’d pick a couple up in a heart beat. 

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12 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

Yuccado offered a blue/silver variant but I’m not sure it was of the same lineage as the palms John Fairey collected from decades ago in Mexico. The times I’ve talked to Craig and others at John Fairey Garden(on the former Yuccado grounds) those original palms have never produced viable seed, or atleast that they admit to. The younger palms planted in the garden are more of a blue. I’m not sure if the silver/white color appears later or if they are of a different lineage than the older palms.

Sorry, I did not read your post carefully (newborn in the house fragments attention... 🙃). They are seedlings from the large silver ones and not the newer 'blue' ones. I can try and grab some extra but I am not sure how many they'll have up for sale nor the price. 

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2 hours ago, Swolte said:

Sorry, I did not read your post carefully (newborn in the house fragments attention... 🙃). They are seedlings from the large silver ones and not the newer 'blue' ones. I can try and grab some extra but I am not sure how many they'll have up for sale nor the price. 

If you can grab a couple I’d gladly reimburse your for your efforts 🙏😉

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On 3/14/2023 at 10:56 PM, Swolte said:

They will have a few of the blue Urusana on sale (straplings) this Saturday at the Budding out festival. I'll see you there?
:)

I emailed Craig Jackson and confirmed the seedlings are from seed sourced in the garden, not bought elsewhere. So different than what I was told in the past. Unfortunately I can’t make it out this Saturday.

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I know this might be off topic but ever heard of Sabal "Oregon"? It supposedly survived -10 F, but it sounds too fake. Anyone has ever heard of them?

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2 hours ago, WisTex said:

So this guy seems nice, seems to know his plants, but I've tried to get more information on this particular Sabal, and besides the 2-3 pictures he has up on etsy, and ebay, he's got nothing else to show for it.  I just don't have the time, and energy to even try it.  I've got too many seedlings of my own that I can verify lineage and cold hardiness anyways.  I wish he would tell me more about it because I need all of the Sabals here... all of them!

Subscribe to my YouTube here  to follow along my Sabal obsession....  Quite possibly one of the biggest Sabal plantings in the US.

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sabalking.texas

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I have noticed that sun exposure has great affect on the color of my tradewindsfruit seed sourced Sabal uresana plants. The first leaves were very blue and the successive leaves have become blue/silver. If I keep the plants in full sun, the leaves become silver/blue. My plants have been growing in semi-shaded conditions over the last 9 months and have retained much of the silver coloration. I'll take a picture when the weather/lighting permits.  As far as cold hardiness is concerned, all of the S. uresana that I have planted in the ground are dead. I plan to try again in the future with more mature plants, but the strap-leaf sized plants are zone 9a/8b.

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On 12/10/2020 at 9:41 PM, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Is mountain sabal ursena hardier than sabal palmetto  

No. My 4 or 5 year old from seed Sabal Uresana did take a very minor burn from our Christmas freeze. Sabal palmettos look great and plentiful as always in N. Florida.
 

I will note the damage is super minor (less than 10%) and may not be from freeze, but the dampness + consistent cold over Christmas 2022.

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On 3/16/2023 at 7:43 PM, Meangreen94z said:

I emailed Craig Jackson and confirmed the seedlings are from seed sourced in the garden, not bought elsewhere. So different than what I was told in the past. Unfortunately I can’t make it out this Saturday.

They seem to be having enough so there should be left for you for future visits. If not,  you're welcome to stop by in College Station. I have an extra one. 

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On 3/17/2023 at 10:35 PM, D Palm said:

No. My 4 or 5 year old from seed Sabal Uresana did take a very minor burn from our Christmas freeze. Sabal palmettos look great and plentiful as always in N. Florida.
 

I will note the damage is super minor (less than 10%) and may not be from freeze, but the dampness + consistent cold over Christmas 2022.

It would depend on the locality/specimen, the green/grey form burn under 20°F. But the blue/silver-mountain/high elevation form at John Fairey Garden only had tip burn from two nights of 6°F, and over 100 hours straight below freezing in 2021. Here they are 9-10 months after that event.

85275066-83E0-4C7B-94BE-551E9BEADD98.jpeg

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8D194CA7-EB6B-4879-AA77-4395FCACC8C4.jpeg

FACFD498-30E9-484F-81B7-7ECEDC441252.jpeg

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On 10/21/2021 at 6:31 PM, teddytn said:

Bump. How did Sabal uresana do with last years bad winter? Anyone still think this is capable of surviving long term in zone 7?

I know this is late. I just bought seeds of the green form from a friend he said they are pretty cold hardy but I will need to protect them.

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5 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

It would depend on the locality/specimen, the green/grey form burn under 20°F. But the blue/silver-mountain/high elevation form at John Fairey Garden only had tip burn from two nights of 6°F, and over 100 hours straight below freezing in 2021. Here they are 9-10 months after that event.

85275066-83E0-4C7B-94BE-551E9BEADD98.jpeg

24458999-B684-4D04-8EBC-CC3ACEF66F94.jpeg

073C0E2B-57C1-4BC5-A423-95C231EB7CD8.jpeg

70FC0C60-1F64-4DCA-A348-8BF33793C2AA.jpeg

8D194CA7-EB6B-4879-AA77-4395FCACC8C4.jpeg

FACFD498-30E9-484F-81B7-7ECEDC441252.jpeg

These are so incredibly blue, I was there yesterday too. I picked up a few seedlings, I'm hoping in 30 years I can have palms this beautiful. :D

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1 hour ago, fr8train said:

These are so incredibly blue, I was there yesterday too. I picked up a few seedlings, I'm hoping in 30 years I can have palms this beautiful. :D

Yeah, they are spectacular. Here’s pictures prior to that event.

32E5C68A-2BC9-484A-A8BF-3F45DEA9F1BE.jpeg

B528F9AD-F220-4195-A54C-83B7FD93ECDC.jpeg

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7B48E55F-D112-439F-BB37-1BC971EC4F79.jpeg

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28 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

Yeah, they are spectacular. Here’s pictures prior to that event.

32E5C68A-2BC9-484A-A8BF-3F45DEA9F1BE.jpeg

B528F9AD-F220-4195-A54C-83B7FD93ECDC.jpeg

FC40D5C7-DD22-48A8-8F26-6CF1C87FA4FB.jpeg

7B48E55F-D112-439F-BB37-1BC971EC4F79.jpeg

They look even better on a sunny day 😍 

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They look great and are tough as nails too. A friend of mine planted straplings from these about 7 years ago and they went unscathed through our '21 Palmageddon event when temps got down to 4F (unprotected). 

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10 hours ago, Swolte said:

They look great and are tough as nails too. A friend of mine planted straplings from these about 7 years ago and they went unscathed through our '21 Palmageddon event when temps got down to 4F (unprotected). 

I've been looking for sabals that might be cold hardy enough to withstand extremely cold temperatures. I've been looking at Sabal "Oregon", Sabal Birmingham, Sabal Louisiana, and a couple sabal minors, and etc. IF those Sabal Uresana went through the 2021 Palmageddon at 5-6 years old unscathed, that might be the sabal Im looking for. Of course, there might be other hardier types of sabals, but in this topic I've heard a lot of good stuff about the Sabal uresana.

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4 hours ago, ChicagoPalma said:

I've been looking for sabals that might be cold hardy enough to withstand extremely cold temperatures. I've been looking at Sabal "Oregon", Sabal Birmingham, Sabal Louisiana, and a couple sabal minors, and etc. IF those Sabal Uresana went through the 2021 Palmageddon at 5-6 years old unscathed, that might be the sabal Im looking for. Of course, there might be other hardier types of sabals, but in this topic I've heard a lot of good stuff about the Sabal uresana.

Any sabal is going to be an extremely slow grower for you. They also don’t respond well to being cooped up in an enclosure for months on end. 

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2 hours ago, RJ said:

Any sabal is going to be an extremely slow grower for you. They also don’t respond well to being cooped up in an enclosure for months on end. 

3-4 months in an enclosure, shouldn’t be too bad and we have very hot and sunny days during the summer.

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