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Where Are Sabal Palmetto Grown North of NC?


PalmTreeDude

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Where are Sabal palmetto grown north of NC? I mean in nersurys or in fields etc. There is this place in Virginia Beach called Palm Tree Mart but when viewing there site, this caught my attention, "field grown or contract grown throughout Northern Florida." Oh boy... If Sabal palmetto were field grown in Virginia Beach, or by seed colected from palms there I bet they would be a lot more hardy than the ones there now. Anyway, does anyone know of any?

Edited by PalmTreeDude

PalmTreeDude

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I don't know if they grow them that far north. Many nurseries from my understanding do not actually grow them on from seed. Many specimens are relocated from populations in the wild, which is one reason you can get such a large palmetto for a very reasonable cost. It would take many years for a nursery to grow palmettos multiple feet in height, and the time spent would make those specimens more expensive than those which are field dug in Florida.

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I live northwest of Virginia Beach, near Yorktown.  Palmettoes are rare around here, but I have two in my yard.  One was sold as a Riverside, but it looks more like a fat palmetto.  It has 4-5 feet of trunk, but it is located a few feet from a dryer vent.  I have a Bald Head Island palmetto unprotected, but it is under a sweetgum tree, so it grows slowly.  Both palms have survived 2 degrees F around 2-3 years ago.  I had some butias that survived for a decade unprotected.  One grew to about 12 feet tall.  It croaked after the 2 F winter.

I know of a place in Smithfield, VA that grows a small field of trachys for sale, but not palmettoes.  It's west of VA Beach, but colder in winter. 

God bless America...

and everywhere else too.

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10 hours ago, VA Jeff said:

I live northwest of Virginia Beach, near Yorktown.  Palmettoes are rare around here, but I have two in my yard.  One was sold as a Riverside, but it looks more like a fat palmetto.  It has 4-5 feet of trunk, but it is located a few feet from a dryer vent.  I have a Bald Head Island palmetto unprotected, but it is under a sweetgum tree, so it grows slowly.  Both palms have survived 2 degrees F around 2-3 years ago.  I had some butias that survived for a decade unprotected.  One grew to about 12 feet tall.  It croaked after the 2 F winter.

I know of a place in Smithfield, VA that grows a small field of trachys for sale, but not palmettoes.  It's west of VA Beach, but colder in winter. 

It is awesome that the palmettos survived 2 degrees! Dong, they really are hardier than butia. I wish I planted them from that start insted of my butia, they would have been well established now and having a full head of fronds. Do you happen to know what the place in Smithfield is?

Edited by PalmTreeDude

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That was the coldest it's been here in about 25 years or so.  I am on the border of zone 8a.  The palmetto usually gets no real damage each winter, but if this particular one weren't near a dryer vent, it would likely get more damage.

 

Here is an image of the Smithfield trachy field.

smithfield trachies.PNG

Edited by VA Jeff
forgot to list

God bless America...

and everywhere else too.

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4 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Man 2 f.  it only gets down to -4 where I am.  

I'm not trying to question your numbers, but where do you get your weather stats from? -4f For CT seemed a little optimistic. This is the first weather station I pulled, and I only selected the first year. Looks like -12.7f which no palm will survive in ground without some serious protection.

Screen Shot 2017-01-28 at 11.24.04 AM.png

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6 hours ago, VA Jeff said:

That was the coldest it's been here in about 25 years or so.  I am on the border of zone 8a.  The palmetto usually gets no real damage each winter, but if this particular one weren't near a dryer vent, it would likely get more damage.

 

Here is an image of the Smithfield trachy field.

smithfield trachies.PNG

Thats been there for like 6 years at least. Likely a lot longer.  I always stop there and usually take pics as its literally right behind where some of my family lives there in smithfield.  Im in Smithfield usually every other xmas or so.  Those trees look much smaller than what I saw when I was there a month ago.  There are a lot more packed together and some very tall ones around 15 feet or so.  I guess they do a lot of turnover in summer.  Windmills are popping up all over the place in the entire Tidewater VA area in all places including smithfield itself.  There are even a few Butias in Smithfield that are pretty large too, and at least 2 sabal palmetto that have been there also for 6 years.    Ill post those photos soon.   

 

The answer to the original question though, are there are not any at all.  

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6 hours ago, NorCalKing said:

I'm not trying to question your numbers, but where do you get your weather stats from? -4f For CT seemed a little optimistic. This is the first weather station I pulled, and I only selected the first year. Looks like -12.7f which no palm will survive in ground without some serious protection.

Screen Shot 2017-01-28 at 11.24.04 AM.png

That is Connecticut.  Not VA Beach or anywhere in the Tidewater for that matter.  Not sure what you meant by posting that.  The discussion is about Tidewater VA/ Va Beach area.  Am i missing something??

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1 hour ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

That is Connecticut.  Not VA Beach or anywhere in the Tidewater for that matter.  Not sure what you meant by posting that.  The discussion is about Tidewater VA/ Va Beach area.  Am i missing something??

If you saw the original quote I was referencing it'll make sense.

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2 hours ago, NorCalKing said:

If you saw the original quote I was referencing it'll make sense.

I see it now.  Easy to miss.  Still not sure why CT was introduced.  Totally different climate and zone.   Given that DC's record is minus 6F I find minus 4 for CT very difficult to believe period.   Va Beach / Tidewater thats almost unheard of. 

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On 1/28/2017, 2:27:47, NorCalKing said:

I'm not trying to question your numbers, but where do you get your weather stats from? -4f For CT seemed a little optimistic. This is the first weather station I pulled, and I only selected the first year. Looks like -12.7f which no palm will survive in ground without some serious protection.

Screen Shot 2017-01-28 at 11.24.04 AM.png

we only moved here this year, it only got to -4 at my place but it might have been colder one night

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  • 3 years later...
On 1/25/2017 at 4:56 PM, PalmTreeDude said:

Where are Sabal palmetto grown north of NC? I mean in nersurys or in fields etc. There is this place in Virginia Beach called Palm Tree Mart but when viewing there site, this caught my attention, "field grown or contract grown throughout Northern Florida." Oh boy... If Sabal palmetto were field grown in Virginia Beach, or by seed colected from palms there I bet they would be a lot more hardy than the ones there now. Anyway, does anyone know of any?

Why arent there any in danville, virginia?

Nothing to say here. 

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15 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Why arent there any in danville, virginia?

People probably just don’t plant them, either they think they won’t survive or they never considered it. 

PalmTreeDude

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7 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

People probably just don’t plant them, either they think they won’t survive or they never considered it. 

Someone should try one in a very sheltered location.

Nothing to say here. 

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41 minutes ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Someone should try one in a very sheltered location.

They can grow Sabal minor and Rhapidophyllum hystrix without a problem, they could probably also grow some Trachycarpus species without any issues as well except for a few rare cold events. That would be a good place to experiment with palms like Sabal etonia, Birmingham, and things like that as well. I don't think a palmetto would survive there long term without some protection at times, you would probably have to go about 70 miles south of there to grow them that far inland. 

PalmTreeDude

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Just now, PalmTreeDude said:

They can grow Sabal minor and Rhapidophyllum hystrix without a problem, they could probably also grow some Trachycarpus species without any issues as well except for a few rare cold events. That would be a good place to experiment with palms like Sabal etonia, Birmingham, and things like that as well. I don't think a palmetto would survive there long term without some protection at times, you would probably have to go about 70 miles south of there to grow them that far inland. 

It's near the nc piedmont so I think I'd be possible. 

Nothing to say here. 

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1 minute ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

It's near the nc piedmont so I think I'd be possible. 

It is in the Piedmont. You are talking about Sabal palmetto right? 

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PalmTreeDude

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Just now, PalmTreeDude said:

It is in the Piedmont. You are talking about Sabal palmetto right? 

Yeah and sabal palmetto grows in Winston Salem and some towns north of there.

Nothing to say here. 

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46 minutes ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Yeah and sabal palmetto grows in Winston Salem and some towns north of there.

Those palmettos have some good genetics. The climate is good there for them for the most part except for those rare cold events where temperatures can get really low, which could kill them (different ones that haven't been tested in that area). The 70 miles south thing is kind of where they are in the "safe zone," of course as you get closer to the ocean you can grow them farther north. 

PalmTreeDude

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6 minutes ago, Will Simpson said:

My flowering Palmettos here in Winston-Salem .

DSC04708.thumb.JPG.e6a1d07a91aa04b2898ff066a29e4bea.JPG

Nice! I saw your other palmetto pictures too. Don’t you own the original Sabal palmetto ‘Mocksville’ too? 

PalmTreeDude

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18 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Nice! I saw your other palmetto pictures too. Don’t you own the original Sabal palmetto ‘Mocksville’ too? 

No , I didn't know about the Mocksville Palmetto but if it survived the 80's cold it's a winner and I'd love to have a small plant .

Thanks ,

Will

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I am the owner of the 'Mocksville' palmetto. It was still young in the 80's and it hadn't started a trunk yet. But it has survived some very cold winters since then unprotected, including the recent winter of 2017-18. Will, if you would like a small plant message me. I only live a half hour west of you. 

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On 1/25/2017 at 4:56 PM, PalmTreeDude said:

Where are Sabal palmetto grown north of NC? I mean in nersurys or in fields etc. There is this place in Virginia Beach called Palm Tree Mart but when viewing there site, this caught my attention, "field grown or contract grown throughout Northern Florida." Oh boy... If Sabal palmetto were field grown in Virginia Beach, or by seed colected from palms there I bet they would be a lot more hardy than the ones there now. Anyway, does anyone know of any?

Northern Florida has gotten cold before.  The record low for Tallahassee in northern Florida was negative 2F.  If they could get Sabal palmetto from there, they are probably much more cold hardy than strains of Sabal palmetto from southern Florida.  

 

I thought the farthest north Sabal palmetto ranged was southern NC, on the coast where Venus flytraps are native?  I know that alligators used to range as far north as southeastern Virginia, but now are extirpated there.  Is that the same with S. palmetto, too?

 

-Nathaniel Long IV

Edited by happy1892
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On 1/28/2017 at 2:27 PM, NorCalKing said:

I'm not trying to question your numbers, but where do you get your weather stats from? -4f For CT seemed a little optimistic. This is the first weather station I pulled, and I only selected the first year. Looks like -12.7f which no palm will survive in ground without some serious protection.

Screen Shot 2017-01-28 at 11.24.04 AM.png

I have been reading about palms that are cold hardy below 0F.  Here in this website (https://www.hgtv.com/outdoors/flowers-and-plants/trees-and-shrubs/13-cold-hardy-palm-trees-pictures), it says that are Sabal minor survived as low as -24F in Oklahoma.  S. minor ranges as far north as southeastern Virginia. The strains from the northern areas are probably much more cold hardy than strains of S. minor from, say, southern Florida.

 

It also talks about the "Bulgaria" strain of Trachycarpus fortunei surviving -17F:

 "Palm trees in Bulgaria? That’s where this tough-as-nails variety originates. In this setting, temps often plummet, including a record low of -17°F. ‘Bulgaria’ survived the Polar Vortex during the 2013-14 winter in Washington, D.C."

I am curious whether these palms were protected with some wrapping against the winter to survive such low temperatures, though?

 

 

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On 1/23/2021 at 4:40 PM, happy1892 said:

Northern Florida has gotten cold before.  The record low for Tallahassee in northern Florida was negative 2F.  If they could get Sabal palmetto from there, they are probably much more cold hardy than strains of Sabal palmetto from southern Florida.  

 

I thought the farthest north Sabal palmetto ranged was southern NC, on the coast where Venus flytraps are native?  I know that alligators used to range as far north as southeastern Virginia, but now are extirpated there.  Is that the same with S. palmetto, too?

 

-Nathaniel Long IV

yes they were during the civil war time period

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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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