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will a trachycarpus windmill palm survive a connecticut zone 6b/7a winter?


Mr.SamuraiSword

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I have a trachy I got in the spring.  here is a pic when i got it.12644840_1036519536411758_17141621515500

scince then, it has gained another 3 fronds, and a new spear is comming up.  the trunk is also a bit bigger as well.  will this survive a border zone 6-7 winter?  if so any advice on methods of planting it?  I have also seen some more mature ones in norwalk ct. zone 7a

Edited by Mr.SamuraiSword
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It will IF you protect it for at least the first two winters, maybe even longer. A palm of that size can not take the cold like a big one with a 5+ foot trunk. I noticed if you grow a cold hardy palm from seed, and it is sprouted, grown, and stays in the ground it takes the cold better because it is almost automatically established. 

Edited by PalmTreeDude

PalmTreeDude

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1 hour ago, Pal Meir said:

Hamburg, USDA zone 8a, after a winter with out-average temps (source: Hamburger Morgenpost 2013):

57d485f85b0b3_TrachiesinHH2013.jpg.1745e

Dang, I have seen these thing in zone 7b doing fine, unprotected, and towering! In the U.S. I saw you posted something about the differences in latitude and how that may affect it, I am thinking that is what is up. 

Edited by PalmTreeDude

PalmTreeDude

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No.  unless you have a serious microclimate in a very protected location,  facing south.   You will have to protect it for much of its early life. (First 5 or so years, likely more). 

That means wrapping at least in burlap, possibly even plastic, and protecting the entire crown and spear, ensuring no water gets in the crown. You will also likely need to add either incandescent Xmas lights or a heating cable. (Led xmas lights will do almost noting as the produce virtually no heat.)  You will need to ensure  that the lights / heating cable will always be turned off before sun and day time heating or you will run the very significant risk of frying it.  I know, I've done it.  It may only be 25-30 outside but if you don't turn that heating off before those temps rinse and the sun (even in cloudy days) starts hitting it, you will cook the Palm.  

However you can likely get away with not protecting it until the end of December.  You can also likely take the protection off in mid to late March.   As long as it isn't exposed to temps under the twenties until it's much older, it should be good.  But even then in your zone I would protect it as stated above from around Christmas thru mid to late March.   Best of luck!   

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The reason anyone is saying NO is because none exist in those areas long term. Winters are too brutal at times. A "hardy" palm for sure but there is a limit.

Cheers, Barrie.

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You don't see any long-term Trachys in zone 6b/7a Nashville, TN, and your area has longer duration of freeze events, which is a limiting factor.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yes they can but I think you are going to have to wrap your tree. I have been selling windmill palms up here on Long Island and across the Northeast for the past seven years..... Last year was the first time I offered a wrapping service for my customers that came with a limited warranty..(if we wrapped the tree and it did not show signs of life come the following June they had the right to buy another tree for half off the normal sale price) I wrapped just over 100 trees and I did not have to replace a tree I am proud to say.... The system we used was tying up the fronds and wrapping the trunk with C-9 Christmas Lights plugged into a thermo-cube (lights were an option). We then built a square wood frame around the tree 2 ft wide as by how many feet the tree was tall. Then we wrapped it with 6 mil plastic around the frame twice. We attached a plywood roof covered in plastic and place 4 shrink wrap vents onto the sides.... 2 up top and 2 on the bottom to help vent the tree.  This system worked great especially if the customers choose to have the lights installed. The ones without lights did not fair as well but still survived.

I had a few concerns about that system that I thought I could improve on. One of the biggest things I wanted for a new system was the ability open and close up the structure to help vent it on the mild days ( we had 75 degree weather last year for Christmas, I am sure that was the best thing for the tree even though we had vents on it) and be able to access the tree to check on it.

My second biggest thing I wanted to achieve was the ability to use the new structure year after year. That was also easy to assemble and dissemble.

I have come up with "The New Windmill Palm Cover" system that meets all those needs. It is made out of a custom Sunbrella canvas. The whole system snaps together with my custom fitted PVC support tubes that attach to 4 galvanized pipes. In addition you can add on a 2 ft attachment as the tree grows. I am enclosing a few pictures of the new cover and tree that I had wrapped last winter that survived...I would like feed back of what you think  or any questions you may have. 

I am not trying to sell the covers I am just looking for feed back on them.

for more info visit: http://www.islandwidepalmtrees.com/palm-cover.html

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Edited by islandwidepalmtrees.com
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15 hours ago, islandwidepalmtrees.com said:

Yes they can but I think you are going to have to wrap your tree. I have been selling windmill palms up here on Long Island and across the Northeast for the past seven years..... Last year was the first time I offered a wrapping service for my customers that came with a limited warranty..(if we wrapped the tree and it did not show signs of life come the following June they had the right to buy another tree for half off the normal sale price) I wrapped just over 100 trees and I did not have to replace a tree I am proud to say.... The system we used was tying up the fronds and wrapping the trunk with C-9 Christmas Lights plugged into a thermo-cube (lights were an option). We then built a square wood frame around the tree 2 ft wide as by how many feet the tree was tall. Then we wrapped it with 6 mil plastic around the frame twice. We attached a plywood roof covered in plastic and place 4 shrink wrap vents onto the sides.... 2 up top and 2 on the bottom to help vent the tree.  This system worked great especially if the customers choose to have the lights installed. The ones without lights did not fair as well but still survived.

I had a few concerns about that system that I thought I could improve on. One of the biggest things I wanted for a new system was the ability open and close up the structure to help vent it on the mild days ( we had 75 degree weather last year for Christmas, I am sure that was the best thing for the tree even though we had vents on it) and be able to access the tree to check on it.

My second biggest thing I wanted to achieve was the ability to use the new structure year after year. That was also easy to assemble and dissemble.

I have come up with "The New Windmill Palm Cover" system that meets all those needs. It is made out of a custom Sunbrella canvas. The whole system snaps together with my custom fitted PVC support tubes that attach to 4 galvanized pipes. In addition you can add on a 2 ft attachment as the tree grows. I am enclosing a few pictures of the new cover and tree that I had wrapped last winter that survived...I would like feed back of what you think  or any questions you may have. 

I am not trying to sell the covers I am just looking for feed back on them.

for more info visit: http://www.islandwidepalmtrees.com/palm-cover.html

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thanks for the info.  were any of your customers from connecticut, and if so how did their palms fare?

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I had 3 customers in CT and yes they all did well. they were located in Brookfield, Danbury and Stratford.

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On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2016‎ ‎6‎:‎17‎:‎41‎, Pal Meir said:

Hamburg, USDA zone 8a, after a winter with out-average temps (source: Hamburger Morgenpost 2013):

57d485f85b0b3_TrachiesinHH2013.jpg.1745e

I know that overall, Europe has mild weather for its latitude but I would have never guessed that Hamburg Germany is an 8A zone. Sad to see such mature Trachy's burnt like this...

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That's a cold zone 8, with January highs of 38 F and relatively wet winters. I know it's all about the minimums, but at least here in Edgewater we get up to a high of 46 F and hardly any precip besides dry snow... it's our lows that take us down a notch or three... 

IslandwidePalms: I like the looks of that new version of your palm cover.  I know it's more about functionality, but when you got an 8' - 10' structure in the yard for a fourth of the year I would personally start to take style into consideration :D.  Does it matter if it's not translucent? I realize the palm's probably in a dormant state during that period, so probably not but I wasn't sure.

Mike in zone 6 Missouruh

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I don't know what happend to those fortunei in Hamburg. They were probably cheap imports from Spain. Fast grown to their size and not capable of cold european weather like we have here or in Germany.

The winters in Hamburg are not as cold as mine and I have windmill palms in same hights. They take lows down to 5 degrees f nearly every winter. Many times connected with prolonged frost. They take that without a problem at that size.

The only explanation could be as mentioned above and maybe a bad microclimate becouse of the open and windy spot.

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Thanks  I believe the tree goes dormant and does not need any light. But this will be a prove in concept this season... 

Edited by islandwidepalmtrees.com
mispelled
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On 11-9-2016 00:17:41, Pal Meir said:

Hamburg, USDA zone 8a, after a winter with out-average temps (source: Hamburger Morgenpost 2013):

57d485f85b0b3_TrachiesinHH2013.jpg.1745e

Well Hamburg is not really zone 8a, then Trachycarpus fortunei should not look like that after a chilly winter! I guess its more 6B to 7A. I am living in the west of The Netherlands, 7 km from the coast,  wich is more a 7B climate and at very mild places maybe 8A in the South West. But during very cold winters even we get frostdamage in Trachycarpus fortunei! Fortunately those winters became more and more rare nowadays!

 

Alexander

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I thought something was off about these pictures so I did some research.  From the chart below I can't believe that Hamburg is a zone 8 equivalent as these climate statistics are on par with the wet and cold zone 7 of Douglas Island, Alaska which is a half mile across the bay in Juneau Alaska. With that said the zone 7 climate of Oklahoma City is nowhere close to that of the zone 7 of Hamburg or Juneau Alaska.  Windmills are long term in OKC unprotected which would be an impossible feat in Alaska or Bridgeport Connecticut for that matter (which is also a 7A). Not all zone X's are created equal as the ultimate low temperature doesn't mean anything when the average highs are below 40F for months at a time.

 

Climate data for Hamburg
Month Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Year
Record high °C (°F) 14.4
(57.9)
17.2
(63)
23.0
(73.4)
29.7
(85.5)
33.5
(92.3)
34.6
(94.3)
36.9
(98.4)
37.3
(99.1)
32.3
(90.1)
26.1
(79)
20.2
(68.4)
15.7
(60.3)
37.3
(99.1)
Average high °C (°F) 3.5
(38.3)
4.4
(39.9)
8.0
(46.4)
12.3
(54.1)
17.5
(63.5)
19.9
(67.8)
22.1
(71.8)
22.2
(72)
17.9
(64.2)
13.0
(55.4)
7.5
(45.5)
4.6
(40.3)
13.2
(55.8)
Daily mean °C (°F) 1.0
(33.8)
1.6
(34.9)
4.6
(40.3)
7.8
(46)
12.5
(54.5)
15.2
(59.4)
17.4
(63.3)
17.4
(63.3)
13.7
(56.7)
9.5
(49.1)
4.9
(40.8)
2.3
(36.1)
9.0
(48.2)
Average low °C (°F) −1.4
(29.5)
−1.2
(29.8)
1.1
(34)
3.3
(37.9)
7.4
(45.3)
10.5
(50.9)
12.7
(54.9)
12.5
(54.5)
9.6
(49.3)
6.0
(42.8)
2.4
(36.3)
0.0
(32)
6.2
(43.2)
Record low °C (°F) −22.8
(−9)
−29.1
(−20.4)
−15.3
(4.5)
−7.1
(19.2)
−5.0
(23)
0.6
(33.1)
3.4
(38.1)
1.8
(35.2)
−1.2
(29.8)
−7.1
(19.2)
−15.4
(4.3)
−18.5
(−1.3)
−29.1
(−20.4)
Average rainfall mm (inches) 67.8
(2.669)
49.9
(1.965)
67.7
(2.665)
43.0
(1.693)
57.4
(2.26)
78.6
(3.094)
76.7
(3.02)
78.9
(3.106)
67.4
(2.654)
67.0
(2.638)
69.2
(2.724)
68.9
(2.713)
792.6
(31.205)
Average rainy days (≥ 1.0 mm) 12.1 9.2 11.3 8.9 9.6 11.3 11.4 10.2 10.8 10.5 11.7 12.4 129.4
Mean monthly sunshine hours 46.9 69.0 108.8 171.6 223.4 198.7 217.5 203.1 144.6 107.9 53.0 37.4 1,581.9
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16 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I thought something was off about these pictures so I did some research.  From the chart below I can't believe that Hamburg is a zone 8 equivalent as these climate statistics are on par with the wet and cold zone 7 of Douglas Island, Alaska which is a half mile across the bay in Juneau Alaska. With that said the zone 7 climate of Oklahoma City is nowhere close to that of the zone 7 of Hamburg or Juneau Alaska.  Windmills are long term in OKC unprotected which would be an impossible feat in Alaska or Bridgeport Connecticut for that matter (which is also a 7A). Not all zone X's are created equal as the ultimate low temperature doesn't mean anything when the average highs are below 40F for months at a time.

 

Climate data for Hamburg
Month Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Year
Record high °C (°F) 14.4
(57.9)
17.2
(63)
23.0
(73.4)
29.7
(85.5)
33.5
(92.3)
34.6
(94.3)
36.9
(98.4)
37.3
(99.1)
32.3
(90.1)
26.1
(79)
20.2
(68.4)
15.7
(60.3)
37.3
(99.1)
Average high °C (°F) 3.5
(38.3)
4.4
(39.9)
8.0
(46.4)
12.3
(54.1)
17.5
(63.5)
19.9
(67.8)
22.1
(71.8)
22.2
(72)
17.9
(64.2)
13.0
(55.4)
7.5
(45.5)
4.6
(40.3)
13.2
(55.8)
Daily mean °C (°F) 1.0
(33.8)
1.6
(34.9)
4.6
(40.3)
7.8
(46)
12.5
(54.5)
15.2
(59.4)
17.4
(63.3)
17.4
(63.3)
13.7
(56.7)
9.5
(49.1)
4.9
(40.8)
2.3
(36.1)
9.0
(48.2)
Average low °C (°F) −1.4
(29.5)
−1.2
(29.8)
1.1
(34)
3.3
(37.9)
7.4
(45.3)
10.5
(50.9)
12.7
(54.9)
12.5
(54.5)
9.6
(49.3)
6.0
(42.8)
2.4
(36.3)
0.0
(32)
6.2
(43.2)
Record low °C (°F) −22.8
(−9)
−29.1
(−20.4)
−15.3
(4.5)
−7.1
(19.2)
−5.0
(23)
0.6
(33.1)
3.4
(38.1)
1.8
(35.2)
−1.2
(29.8)
−7.1
(19.2)
−15.4
(4.3)
−18.5
(−1.3)
−29.1
(−20.4)
Average rainfall mm (inches) 67.8
(2.669)
49.9
(1.965)
67.7
(2.665)
43.0
(1.693)
57.4
(2.26)
78.6
(3.094)
76.7
(3.02)
78.9
(3.106)
67.4
(2.654)
67.0
(2.638)
69.2
(2.724)
68.9
(2.713)
792.6
(31.205)
Average rainy days (≥ 1.0 mm) 12.1 9.2 11.3 8.9 9.6 11.3 11.4 10.2 10.8 10.5 11.7 12.4 129.4
Mean monthly sunshine hours 46.9 69.0 108.8 171.6 223.4 198.7 217.5 203.1 144.6 107.9 53.0 37.4 1,581.9

I don't know if it's ever been tried before, but if I were in Sitka, AK I'd give trachies a try (border of 7b/8a).  Averages a little higher than Hamburg, average lows right above freezing, and better record lows...

Sitka.PNG

Edited by pin38

Mike in zone 6 Missouruh

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I doubt they would make it in Sitka with the 6 months straight of average highs in the 40's.  Throw in 88" of rain per year and that is a recipe for failure IMO.

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  • 1 month later...

There was at least one attempt in Sitka.  The palms did eventually die.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/14689-death-of-the-northern-most-alaskan-palm/

  • Upvote 1

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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