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Starting Coco Nucifera in Tijuana

GottmitAlex

By GottmitAlex
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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If the new regimen works out. I'll let everyone know.

I may have hit it!

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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quaman58 Grand Master

quaman58

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Beautiful, made it through another winter. Looking good!

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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On 4/8/2022 at 11:53 PM, GottmitAlex said:

If the new regimen works out. I'll let everyone know.

I may have hit it!

 

:D

 

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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3 hours ago, Aleitalyyy said:

hi alex how are the cocos? in your experience are greens or yellows / oranges more resistant to cold?

They're doing fine. 

Greens are a tad bit more resistant to cold than the golden ones.

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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That said, the golden tall variety are quite resilient. 

I have a pacific golden tall which germinated from seed here at home and is getting bigger by the day. 

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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1668207016501253255692287546118.jpg

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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16682185736932715958011703935167.jpg

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Maltese coconut project Experienced

Maltese coconut project

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I have a curious question.. Are your coconut palms facing east? Thank you in advance for any reply, regards 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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9 hours ago, Maltese coconut project said:

I have a curious question.. Are your coconut palms facing east? Thank you in advance for any reply, regards 

They were facing south until the neighbor built his his house blocking the view. 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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1 hour ago, ego said:

What are the temperatures there these days?

Highs in 23c

Low 11-14c

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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The oldest one's trunk.  Planted as a seedling Aug 2016

 

 

16683837334375441655851515210687.jpg

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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On 11/13/2022 at 1:00 PM, GottmitAlex said:

Highs in 23c

Low 11-14c

Watering time for the palms!

1668541493710222508166064782779.thumb.jpg.238d2fb5cf7919eafbbe04fba66b3ca4.jpg

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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They took in their gallons of H2O today.

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Aleitalyyy Proficient

Aleitalyyy

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hello alex beautiful as always .... your work is sublime and I would like your garden here in Italy ..

put a picture of the beccariophoenix???

I also got a bottle palm from ebay it should arrive shortly...

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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11 hours ago, Aleitalyyy said:

I like the coconut in the center ... what quality is it?

That's a green Malayan dwarf

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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22 hours ago, Aleitalyyy said:

when you can put a picture of alfredii

 

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Maltese coconut project Experienced

Maltese coconut project

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I have a query,  do you have strong cool northern winds in your area? I am asking since I am seeing the leaves exceeding the fence. Is there any particular hardening techniques that use? I wish to learn the maximum I can to increase the odds to their survival. Also how long does it stay below 21 degrees celcius/70 degrees Fahrenheit in your area during daytime and for how long do night time temperatures go below 15 degrees celcius/59 degrees Fahrenheit? Thank you in advance for your reply, regards Jonathan 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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4 hours ago, Aleitalyyy said:

saw that the temperatures in your part have dropped alex

 

Yes they have. Our lows are 10c 

 

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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2 hours ago, Maltese coconut project said:

I have a query,  do you have strong cool northern winds in your area? I am asking since I am seeing the leaves exceeding the fence. Is there any particular hardening techniques that use? I wish to learn the maximum I can to increase the odds to their survival. Also how long does it stay below 21 degrees celcius/70 degrees Fahrenheit in your area during daytime and for how long do night time temperatures go below 15 degrees celcius/59 degrees Fahrenheit? Thank you in advance for your reply, regards Jonathan 

Our cool winds are from the west (ocean). 

My recommendations for small coconuts throughout winter is to place a tarp above them in order for them not to have any frost.  Another one is to have a brood lamp (75w-125w incandescent) pointing between the base of the palm and the soil.

After the third year, the tarp isn't necessary.

In you case I would also protect them from the north winds.

Also use fine lava sand (3/8" granules) as the top 1" dressing around the palms.  This helps to retain more heat.  

The main thing is to plant them in the ground so they can be a little bit more cold hardier than being in pots.  I have lost many coconuts in pots because they couldn't develop a good root system. After their first winter, they would die of root rot. 

For the past two weeks our highs have been in 26c (but for about 4 hours).

Daytime temps hours below 21c: I'd say about 9

Nighttime temps below 15c: 11 hours. This could be less depending on our easterly winds (Santa Ana winds) which elevate the temperatures day and night. But they are completely devoid of humidity.  0% R.H.

 

 

 

 

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Aleitalyyy Proficient

Aleitalyyy

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3 hours ago, Maltese coconut project said:
3 hours ago, Maltese coconut project said:

I have a query,  do you have strong cool northern winds in your area? I am asking since I am seeing the leaves exceeding the fence. Is there any particular hardening techniques that use? I wish to learn the maximum I can to increase the odds to their survival. Also how long does it stay below 21 degrees celcius/70 degrees Fahrenheit in your area during daytime and for how long do night time temperatures go below 15 degrees celcius/59 degrees Fahrenheit? Thank you in advance for your reply, regards Jonathan 

 

nice questions are the same as I wanted to ask ... I'm monitoring the temperatures of all the coconuts to the limit... today in tijuana he gives me these forecasts... i think we have the luck in lower california with higher peaks in the middle of winter, than we in europe... malta is much better than italy.. maybe in italy the best place too Better than Malta would be Lampedusa... having a house with land in lampedusa i would most likely be in the same company and project as alex in tajuana ..

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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16698467944272979684207122071224.jpg

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Mr. Coconut Palm Grand Master

Mr. Coconut Palm

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On 11/13/2022 at 5:56 PM, GottmitAlex said:

The oldest one's trunk.  Planted as a seedling Aug 2016

 

 

16683837334375441655851515210687.jpg

Hey Alex,

Is this your Panama (Pacific) Tall?  What is the circumference of the base of that palm?  I am curious of the circumference right around the leaf bases, just above the woody trunk to compare with mine, which hasn't started producing woody trunk yet, but I suspect will soon, if we have a normal to mild winter.  Also, what is the overall height of this palm?  Thanks.

John

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

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12 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Hey Alex,

Is this your Panama (Pacific) Tall?  What is the circumference of the base of that palm?  I am curious of the circumference right around the leaf bases, just above the woody trunk to compare with mine, which hasn't started producing woody trunk yet, but I suspect will soon, if we have a normal to mild winter.  Also, what is the overall height of this palm?  Thanks.

John

Hi John!!

I'll take the measurements tomorrow. It's my oldest (golden Malayan dwarf. 6 years in the making from a single leaf  seedling).

It's great to read your back.

Hope all is well.

Alex

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Mr. Coconut Palm Grand Master

Mr. Coconut Palm

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16 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Hi John!!

I'll take the measurements tomorrow. It's my oldest (golden Malayan dwarf. 6 years in the making from a single leaf  seedling).

It's great to read your back.

Hope all is well.

Alex

Thanks.  I am glad to be back.  My two in ground ones now are a Panama Tall, and a Green Malayan Dwarf.  They are both right about 11 ft. tall in overall height as best I can guess, but the Panama Tall is about 5 months younger.  It has a 28 inch circumference base as of a week or two ago, and the Green Malayan has a 27 inch circurmference base, but is more robust in the crown.  The Green Malayan recovered faster and better from last year's cold winter than has my Panama Tall.  And, ironically, my cluster of 3 (used to be 4) Christmas Palms have recovered very well too, and look great for Christmas Palms in Corpus Christi.  Ironic, because Christmas Palms are supposed to be less cold hardy than Coconut Palms, and I didn't do anything more to protect them than I did with my two in ground Coconut Palms (only wrapped them with blankets and sheets on the night it got down to 28F here, and one chily night of about 41F in early March when it was supposed to get down in the 30's here very late in the season), but they were totally exposed to 3 freezes and numerous nights in the 30'sF without any protection at all.  I guess it just goes to show you that growing everything ALL ORGANIC significantly increases cold hardiness by at least 2F to 3F, and that makes a world of difference for those of us growing tropical plants in marginal climates!  And the Christmas Palms have a nice amount of woody trunk on them and nice green crownshafts and healthy green crowns!

John

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Maltese coconut project Experienced

Maltese coconut project

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Speaking of marginal climates I am noticing that basically Southern california, and Corpus Christi are marked as 10a-10b zones but Malta 11a. Although it might be misleading because our winter cools (never below zero and very rarely because below 8 degrees celcius/46 degrees Fahrenheit) drag longer through March and April.  It would be interesting to discover: What is the biological detail regarding coconut palms being vulnerable in cool non freezing temperatures? Is it the reduced bioavailability of macronutrients and micronutrients from roots to the plant? Will foliar fertilizer significantly help? Will adding soil biota and feeding soil biota help? How can we "bypass" the environmental stresses in the most practical ways? 

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Aleitalyyy Proficient

Aleitalyyy

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i think all that can be done is you are doing it... the only step you are missing is digging into the ground...

maybe you can dare vegetable hormonal mixtures such as phytosterols etc or female hormones... not so if they are needed though. ...

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Maltese coconut project Experienced

Maltese coconut project

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I have another question to ask. In winter 2020-2021 I also noticed that most of the coconut palms that died showed the fastest deterioration in April rather than winter itself (it was a mild winter unlike winter 2021-2022). As an experienced coconut specific botanist/gardener what is your opinion about it? Did you experience similar? Is it something that they simply depleted their resources? Possibly the east facing winds in our spring? (they had the North and west side protected but exposed east side). The seedling type leaves just narrowed and died in some specimens.. Thank you in advance for feedback, regards Jonathan 

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Aleitalyyy Proficient

Aleitalyyy

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from what I understand, the coconut can't stand vegetative arrest or at least can't stand it for long periods... the meristem starts to die especially in young palms much faster... you know Dutch palms like mine? if you buy them in winter which are usually sold by ikea and other DIY at Christmas time... if you buy them usually the doors at home but they are already dead... despite being green and healthy... then after a month they turn yellow and die ... in fact in Italy there is a rumor that coconut is impossible to grow, but people do not understand that most of the time they are already dead because they were bought in December where they caught cold in the DIY warehouses ... the lidl in fact he sells them in June and the plants are all alive...

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Aleitalyyy Proficient

Aleitalyyy

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jonathan us the only thing we can do is plant in the ground like alex did in tijuana, find a southerly rising and setting sun so it always gets the sun... put a heat lamp in the base of the trunk and cover with sheets or greenhouse mountable the first years and then strengthen the plant in summer so that the crown becomes thick and strong, a 20cm crown will be more difficult to suffer from the cold ... put black sand on the surface ... I am been to malta and have seen that the island has a good chance of success... you obviously want the land with the right house to experiment with in addition to everything i have written previously....

In Liguria I will have to put up a greenhouse in winter...

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gurugu Proficient

gurugu

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27 minutes ago, Aleitalyyy said:

from what I understand, the coconut can't stand vegetative arrest or at least can't stand it for long periods... the meristem starts to die especially in young palms much faster... you know Dutch palms like mine? if you buy them in winter which are usually sold by ikea and other DIY at Christmas time... if you buy them usually the doors at home but they are already dead... despite being green and healthy... then after a month they turn yellow and die ... in fact in Italy there is a rumor that coconut is impossible to grow, but people do not understand that most of the time they are already dead because they were bought in December where they caught cold in the DIY warehouses ... the lidl in fact he sells them in June and the plants are all alive...

As I have already mentioned, I bought the first coconut  in early February this year. I transplanted it into a big pot and it started to grow from scratch. Though it was sheltered inside my unheated glassed porch, it did see nights from 7ºC to 9ºC ( just a few). Usually, minimum temperatures were above 10ºC. It is also true that it enjoyed a very sunny end of winter and all spring long and summer, when temperatures in the porch rose notoriously. It has been growing since then. 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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15 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Hey Alex,

Is this your Panama (Pacific) Tall?  What is the circumference of the base of that palm?  I am curious of the circumference right around the leaf bases, just above the woody trunk to compare with mine, which hasn't started producing woody trunk yet, but I suspect will soon, if we have a normal to mild winter.  Also, what is the overall height of this palm?  Thanks.

John

John.

The circumference at the base of the crown is 38".

The woody trunk circumference is 28"

 

Alex

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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It's 20C / 68F 11:39 AM and I just watered all my palms.

I hope we can hit 24c today. Doubt it.  But it's been 9 days since I last watered them.

 

 

 

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Palmfarmer

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25 up here in the mountains. This winter is so mild this far. Average temps are like 25 in the day and 6c at night. My Royal and kentia are currently pushing out fronds. If I where to heat up my palms at night I might be able to make things grow at a reasonable speed even when it starts dipping more in the nights?  

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