Florida Royal Palm and Cuban Royal Palm - How Cold Hardy?

[RedRabbit]

59 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

I'd say if it survived 2010 it's long term, if it survived 1985 and 1989 it's bulletproof.  Those are my benchmarks anyways.

Same here. 

1 hour ago, Chatta said:

Thats not far from my house, I'll go see if i can get a better photo lolol

[palmsOrl]

2 hours ago, Jimbean said:

So when the next big freeze hits, we will have a more exact boundary of what can grow where long term.

Exactly.  Like in 2010 in Maitland (a suburb north of Orlando), all of my 10a palms survived (royals, foxtails, bismarck, majesty, Acrocomia crispa, Archontophoenix cunninghamiana) and the 10b stuff was toast.  Take a drive through the neighborhoods around downtown, especially the more upscale ones and it is apparent a zone 10 climate is present, but not a 10b that can support Cocos long term.

[Chatta]

I recently planted royals in my front yard and lining my driveway

[Chatta]

this was the first one i planted seems to be doing really well, planted before the last bad winter 2017/2018 if i remember right. We cut down a queen palm for this guy

 

[STEvFIN]

Anyone try using a space heater to protect their palms during the coldest days in Florida? I'm in Gainesville and I planted two foxtails in my front yard and I used a space heater with plastic cover roll to keep the palms from getting too cold...I'm sure they would have survived but I had zero browning of the fronds and it isn't that much of a pain since the amount of days we have really cold temps is minimal now (use to be at least 2 to three weeks total of 32 or below at night) I'd say less then 5 days of 32 or below this past winter...I'll have to upload photos of my setup. 

[sonoranfans]

On 7/28/2019 at 10:38 AM, palmsOrl said:

I would say that regardless of size, Roystonea regia / elata should still be considered a 10a palm.  The reason they are doing so well in the Orlando area now, for instance, is (as I have said before), the data indicates that the city (and probably the inner suburbs) is now a 10a climate.  Places like New Smyrna Beach are probably bordering on 10a or high end 9b, so they live there fairly long term as well.  That said, 10a climates are still subject to low-mid 20s in really bad freezes, whereas 9b climates tend to see upper teens (which will kill any royal), so that is why I say that royals should be considered long term in 10a climates.

9b climates do not see upper teens -by definition- they see a low of 25F for a cold 9b.  50 year lows do not define 9b, only 10 year lows.  I have seem royals survive 21F in a somewhat brief radiational cold in 9a chandler arizona, the coldest winter freeze there in a 30 year period..  The 2010 radiational frost/freeze at my house in florida with 28F for two consecutive nights did not kill any adult royal near me.   All small royals with no trunk perished.  Even palms with 3-4' of clear trunk survived without overhead protection.  All were burned at least half the  leaves, all survive today.   This is why I consider adults as (warm) 9b palms.  Length of cold matters as plant tissue may not freeze for the brief events.   Just because the air is 28F doesn't mean the palm has dropped to that temperature.   You can put water outside at 30F and it will take a while to become ice.  With plant material, freezing will be slower than water.  In a long advective freeze they could very well die at 28F.  USDA zones do not account for freeze length, just low temps.  My royals are 35' overall today in zone 9b.

[palmsOrl]

3 hours ago, STEvFIN said:

Anyone try using a space heater to protect their palms during the coldest days in Florida? I'm in Gainesville and I planted two foxtails in my front yard and I used a space heater with plastic cover roll to keep the palms from getting too cold...I'm sure they would have survived but I had zero browning of the fronds and it isn't that much of a pain since the amount of days we have really cold temps is minimal now (use to be at least 2 to three weeks total of 32 or below at night) I'd say less then 5 days of 32 or below this past winter...I'll have to upload photos of my setup. 

I've done this many times over the past 20+ years.  It is how I have always heated my greenhouses when I had them.  But I have also aimed space heaters and those radiant heaters at outside in-ground palms too.  I definitely wouldn't use plastic to cover foliage or the trunk as it does little to nothing to keep out cold and will burn foliage the second the sun hits it.  Can you post photos of your Gainesville foxtails?

Edited July 31, 2019 by palmsOrl

[palmsOrl]

1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

9b climates do not see upper teens -by definition- they see a low of 25F for a cold 9b.  50 year lows do not define 9b, only 10 year lows.  I have seem royals survive 21F in a somewhat brief radiational cold in 9a chandler arizona, the coldest winter freeze there in a 30 year period..  The 2010 radiational frost/freeze at my house in florida with 28F for two consecutive nights did not kill any adult royal near me.   All small royals with no trunk perished.  Even palms with 3-4' of clear trunk survived without overhead protection.  All were burned at least half the  leaves, all survive today.   This is why I consider adults as (warm) 9b palms.  Length of cold matters as plant tissue may not freeze for the brief events.   Just because the air is 28F doesn't mean the palm has dropped to that temperature.   You can put water outside at 30F and it will take a while to become ice.  With plant material, freezing will be slower than water.  In a long advective freeze they could very well die at 28F.  USDA zones do not account for freeze length, just low temps.  My royals are 35' overall today in zone 9b.

9a, 9b climates (and 10a climates) by definition do not have an annual average lowest temperature in the teens.  This average annual lowest temperature of the preceding 30-year period is how USDA hardiness zones are calculated.   During years in which a record freeze occurs, however,  a temperature much below the recent 30-year annual average low can be recorded.  Thus, a 9b climate with say a 30-year average annual low of 28F could see 18F (for example) during a year with a record freeze, and this climate is still a zone 9b because the average still meets the parameters for a zone 9b.

I see what you are saying though Sonoranfans.  If you disregard extremes and look at the average annual lowest temperature to define where a palm can grow in the semi long term, a royal could be considered suitable for a warm 9b climate.

Edited July 31, 2019 by palmsOrl

[Walt]

Well, I will add my experiences and observations to this thread. I had a trunked Roystonea regia planted in an open field area in September of 2009. In December of 2010 my field area low temperature dropped to 19.8 degrees on the coldest night of a week long (I think even longer) cold snap.  I'm sure all Florida palm growers here remember that horrid December. I think Homestead, Florida dropped to 28 degrees. I know the upper Keys got into the mid 30s.

In any event, my  royal palm had only been in the ground for just over a year, and it was totally defoliated. I had no idea if it was going to survive, but survive it did.

My open yard temperature close to my house, and on slightly higher ground recorded 20.7 degrees. But again, in my lower field area I recorded 19.8 degrees F (-6.71 C)

However, that was the ambient air temperature at around 4 feet above the ground where my thermometer sensor was placed, in a pillow case hanging from a 6-feet step ladder.

As sonoranfans stated,  just because the air temperature was xx degrees doesn't mean a palm (inner trunk, meristem) was xx degrees. There's always going to be a temperature lag in the palm, as when the air temperature drops, heat from the palm has to transfer from it into the surrounding air. Further, during a radiational freeze (which was the case for me) the higher up the palm (above the soil line) the warmer it's going to be due to air stratification. That is, the meristem of a royal palm that's 20-25 feet above the ground is going to see a higher temperature than the meristem of a royal palm that is only 5 feet above the ground.

And further, duration is a big factor. The shorter the duration of low temperatures the less time there is for heat transfer from the palm to the air.

During the day,  if there is lots of direct sunshine, a palm's trunk (and all parts of it) can absorb lots of heat which will have to be lost over the course of the night. The air temperature around the palm is going to drop in temperature much faster than the palm.

So, I conclude, my royal palm's inner trunk and meristem did not see 19.8 degrees F. If it did it would probably been killed. What low temperature it ultimately received is anybody's guess. 

All I can do is submit the evidence as I gathered it via the photos of my royal palm and my Oregon Scientific thermometer base station  (with three remote sensors).

The USDA rates my area (Highlands County) as 9b. When I first moved here the USDA rated my area as 9a.  Of course, that is a very broad average rating, as up on the Lake Wales Ridge and around the lakes it's a solid zone 10a/b. It's just off the ridge and away from the lakes in the lower areas that are 9b. But there is also an area just south of the town of Lake Placid that is actually 8b/9a. 

The first photo below shows my defoliated royal palm after the December cold snap of 2010. The second shows my royal palm as it looks today, 7-31-19.

[palmsOrl]

I remember posting about this Walt.  Very, very valuable data for would-be royal growers in Central Florida.  So it is certainly safe to say that a trunking Roystonea regia can possibly survive a quick drop to 20F, the temperature being measured near or a few feet above ground level (granted the meristem likely did not see below 25F, maybe even a little higher).  An advective freeze such as 1989 would be a different story with temperatures 19-22F from ground level to the top of the palm and a stiff breeze bringing the temperature of the palm's internal tissues down much more quickly.

[Gregory]

On 7/28/2019 at 9:15 AM, kinzyjr said:

I'd say a few factors have played a part in the recent uptick in zone 10 plantings along the I-4 corridor and in Central Florida in general.  Obviously urbanization creating heat islands and the memory of the freezes of the 1980s fading into the past has certainly played a part.  A lot of the hardy palms in the region are being afflicted with lethal bronzing or other diseases, so that is forcing planters to consider other options that weren't on the table before.  The probability of losing a Phoenix sp. to TPPD/Lethal Bronzing on the I-4 corridor is probably greater than losing a Royal or a Foxtail to a freak freeze at this point.

The portion of your post about the avocado tree also caught my attention because I have avocados that were bearing fruit as well, but I had to "top" the trees after Hurricane Irma because they started leaning toward the house.  The worst freeze in recent memory was Jan. 2010 and the avocados and mangoes here survived that freeze. They may not have survived a repeat of 1985 or 1989. 

This brings me to another potential factor for the uptick in zone 10 plantings.  When your neighbors see you plant stuff that is normally reserved for warmer areas and it lives, they start getting a little more daring as well.  My neighbor saw me tending to my Jamaican Talls a little while back and told me he used to love going to Miami and seeing coconuts everywhere, but he didn't think they could make it here.  I have no doubt that if he was a little younger he'd have run to Lowe's and came back with a few.  When people start seeing foxtails, royals, buccaneer palms, etc. in commercial/municipal/residential plantings, they start considering those plants for their own residential plantings when they may not have before.  It will probably continue to snowball until we have another rough winter.  After the Jan. 2010 freeze, our big box stores wouldn't even carry coconuts, but now they are common place again.

Wonderful observations! We've had our avocado tree in our back yard for almost 30 years I guess (we planted it after the 89 freeze, probably very early 90s). My brother started it from an avocado seed and we planted it in our back yard just thinking it would eventually die. Only until recently when we had two consecutive winters without frost did the tree start bearing fruit. Our elevation is higher up than our surrounding area in SW Volusia, so that does help a bit. We've got a coconut sapling now that we'll try and grow, as well as 10 Royal palm saplings. More hopeful about the latter, but it all will be fun. Maybe our neighbors will notice and start growing similar things!

[Walt]

2 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

I remember posting about this Walt.  Very, very valuable data for would-be royal growers in Central Florida.  So it is certainly safe to say that a trunking Roystonea regia can possibly survive a quick drop to 20F, the temperature being measured near or a few feet above ground level (granted the meristem likely did not see below 25F, maybe even a little higher).  An advective freeze such as 1989 would be a different story with temperatures 19-22F from ground level to the top of the palm and a stiff breeze bringing the temperature of the palm's internal tissues down much more quickly.

Yes, an advective freeze would definitely transfer heat away from the palm far more quickly than still air.  That's just elementary physics (as you know).  

In the 21+ years I've lived here, I've only had one advective cold event where the over night low was below 30 degrees, and that was in late January of 2003. I recorded just over 29 degrees F. I had virtually no damage to foliage because there was no frost. And Ironically, up on the ridge exposed zone 10 palms got severe desiccation wind burn, whereas my place down off the ridge and with many trees surrounding my property, I had virtually no dry cold wind damage to foliage. 

Without exception, all my cold damage to palms and tropicals have been from radiational freezes. Yes, the first night is windy and cold as the front moves in -- but the second night the wind dies and the temperature drops. The best places is on high ground and close to water (lakes).

But most radiational freezes, the higher the elevation (relative to central Florida topography) the warmer it gets. In the below photo is my Ficus altissima 'variegata' tree in my front yard. The photo is dated 2-15-2006. But the morning before, on 2-14-2006 (that I referred to as the St. Valentine's Day massacre, as a hard frost caused major foliage damage to most of my palms and tropical plantings) my low dropped to 26 degrees F. Note that the top of my Ficus tree the leaves aren't damaged or as much damaged. This is because of air stratification, the air being warmer at the top of the tree. 

I've also noticed this same scenario on pathos vines that I have growing 50 feet up slash pines. I've seen on some radiational cooling nights where the first 15 feet up the trunk of pothos vines were defoliated, then from about 15-18 feet there was a transition area where the leaves were less damaged, and finally after 18 feet the leaves were undamaged.

I don't have a drone, but if I did I would strap a digital thermometer sensor to it during a very cold radiational cooling night, then fly the drone up to about 100 feet and see what temperature it would be reporting back to my base station, as compared to 4-5 feet above the ground.

 

 

 

[Robbzilla13]

On 7/28/2019 at 1:48 PM, Chatta said:

I recently planted royals in my front yard and lining my driveway

Where do you buy Royals that size?

[Robbzilla13]

Here are 4 nice mature Royals in New Port Richey, off hwy 54, east of 19. Not sure how long they’ve been there, I assume planted as mature trees. 4-5 total at this property.

[Chatta]

10 hours ago, Robbzilla13 said:

Where do you buy Royals that size?

I bought those ones at Lowe's in Tarpon Springs, FL on US 19. They were unlabeled and unpriced, I got them to price it as a Queen Palm of the same size one time. They don't seem to have em very often but when they do, grab it!
The nurseries have way better ones but usually they only have tall specimens that are gonna cost couple grand. I got those two for 80$ a piece.

[RedRabbit]

10 hours ago, Robbzilla13 said:

Where do you buy Royals that size?

There’s a place called Palms Plants Pottery on Hillsborough that might have some that since.

[sonoranfans]

On 7/28/2019 at 10:38 AM, palmsOrl said:

I would say that regardless of size, Roystonea regia / elata should still be considered a 10a palm.  The reason they are doing so well in the Orlando area now, for instance, is (as I have said before), the data indicates that the city (and probably the inner suburbs) is now a 10a climate.  Places like New Smyrna Beach are probably bordering on 10a or high end 9b, so they live there fairly long term as well.  That said, 10a climates are still subject to low-mid 20s in really bad freezes, whereas 9b climates tend to see upper teens (which will kill any royal), so that is why I say that royals should be considered long term in 10a climates.

I think zones are not an acceptable way to evaluate cold tolerance as it is often the duration of cold that matters more than the shorter term low temps.  When I was in arizona I saw royals in 9a(chandler) that took 21F and recovered, but the desert cools and warms quickly, they were only under freezing for 5 hrs and saw a 58F high that day.    A florida 9a is potentuially more damaging due to length of cold and this is going to be longer away from the water inland.  In my experience large royals are good to at least 28F plus frost for 5 hrs, 2 days in a row in my area, a "30 year cold event"(dec 2010).  they might not be good for a 30 degree cold for 12 hrs each day or an area where the temps dont rise above 35 or so in the day.  But even that december day between the two cold lows, we hit 54F.  Hence zone ratings are garbage, hardly useful as short term air temps are not reliable in determining cold tolerance.  I remember the orlando area had some cooler readings, 2-3 degrees  colder and longer lasting than my place in 2010, it might have killed some royals.  Not in my area, every royal with at least 2-3' clear trunk survived 2010, 100%.  Many of those were royals  were already 15-30 years old then and are now 40-50' tall.  We are 9B, but never has a temp been recorded below 26F nearby and that was before all the development.  The greatly increased traffic on the highway tells the story of expansion of the tampa heat island, its warmer than ever. and the nearby gulf prevents the lows from plunging too far.  I know there are such area in orlando, but much of it doesnt have moderating water(lake) effects.  So I would counter that the USDA zones are not a good way to determine cold tolerance, so I dont consider royals as strictly 9B or 10A but they can take 27-28F and freesing for 5+= hrs two days in a row.  And if they are smaller they could die from that.  Growers want information they can use and the current USDA statistics are not refined enough to determine palm survivability.

[JDawgs]

Sounds like royals are pretty hardy. I live in St Augustine and have 4 royal palm seedlings I’m going to plant in the ground eventually. I already have 2 Christmas palms, a foxtail, and coconut in the ground just for kicks. They’re all on the southside of the house and close to it. Not sure how they’ll do long term but wish me luck! 

Edited November 5, 2019 by JDawgs

[RedRabbit]

49 minutes ago, JDawgs said:

Sounds like royals are pretty hardy. I live in St Augustine and have 4 royal palm seedlings I’m going to plant in the ground eventually. I already have 2 Christmas palms, a foxtail, and coconut in the ground just for kicks. They’re all on the southside of the house and close to it. Not sure how they’ll do long term but wish me luck! 

Good luck! Since you're in St. Augustine I think this post might be of interest to you: 

 

[JDawgs]

Thanks for the article. It’ll be fun to see how well my microclimate holds up. Btw, do you ever use an outdoor space heater for tender palms during a bad freeze?

[TampaPalms]

It looks like the department of transportation is planting royals along 275 near downtown St Petersburg. I was driving or I would have taken a picture.

[kinzyjr]

37 minutes ago, TampaPalms said:

It looks like the department of transportation is planting royals along 275 near downtown St Petersburg. I was driving or I would have taken a picture.

Are these some of the ones you were referring to?: Roystonea regia - I-275 Median, St. Petersburg, FL

[TampaPalms]

15 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Are these some of the ones you were referring to?: Roystonea regia - I-275 Median, St. Petersburg, FL

Yup ☺️  It's the farthest north I've seen royals planted on the interstate. I know there are dozens of them in Manatee County along I-75. The Ellenton exit has royals, foxtails, looks like Kings and Bismarkias.  Further along they are planting them on the newly reconstructed interchanges in Manatee and Sarasota County. In a couple years it's going to look very tropical.

There are some more royal plantings done by the city of Tampa in the medians in the channelside area of downtown Tampa also.

I wish they would plant them and I know they would survive in malfunction junction in downtown Tampa.

[palmsOrl]

16 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Are these some of the ones you were referring to?: Roystonea regia - I-275 Median, St. Petersburg, FL

See, this is what they need to start doing in the Orlando metro area, in areas with some irrigation and on moister sites.  Sure, they will get freeze damage occasionally, but are not susceptible to lethal bronzing and less to other palm diseases going around(?).

To be fair though, they are not the most drought tolerant choice and I have seen many scrawny, pencil-pointing, yellowish-green specimens throughout South Florida.  Thus, they may not be the best choice if they are going to be planted high and dry in Florida sand, especially since Orlando is further north and so they have to contend with the occasional freeze and cooler winters overall.

Really, the ideal sites for these in the Orlando metro area are in the yards of large homes that will likely have irrigation and lawn services that provide at least some fertilizer.  This, or near or on the edge of lakes (especially the south and east sides where they will naturally have richer, moister soil.

There were some municipal plantings along a road in Metro West (near Orlando) but I recall seeing (Palmtalk thread) that they froze dead in 2010.  They were large but I seem to recall they were recently planted.

[Eric in Orlando]

58 minutes ago, palmsOrl said:

See, this is what they need to start doing in the Orlando metro area, in areas with some irrigation and on moister sites.  Sure, they will get freeze damage occasionally, but are not susceptible to lethal bronzing and less to other palm diseases going around(?).

To be fair though, they are not the most drought tolerant choice and I have seen many scrawny, pencil-pointing, yellowish-green specimens throughout South Florida.  Thus, they may not be the best choice if they are going to be planted high and dry in Florida sand, especially since Orlando is further north and so they have to contend with the occasional freeze and cooler winters overall.

Really, the ideal sites for these in the Orlando metro area are in the yards of large homes that will likely have irrigation and lawn services that provide at least some fertilizer.  This, or near or on the edge of lakes (especially the south and east sides where they will naturally have richer, moister soil.

There were some municipal plantings along a road in Metro West (near Orlando) but I recall seeing (Palmtalk thread) that they froze dead in 2010.  They were large but I seem to recall they were recently planted.

The Metrowest ones are still alive, and nice. They are on Westpointe Blvd., west of Lake Vilma Dr.

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

8 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

See, this is what they need to start doing in the Orlando metro area, in areas with some irrigation and on moister sites.  Sure, they will get freeze damage occasionally, but are not susceptible to lethal bronzing and less to other palm diseases going around(?).

To be fair though, they are not the most drought tolerant choice and I have seen many scrawny, pencil-pointing, yellowish-green specimens throughout South Florida.  Thus, they may not be the best choice if they are going to be planted high and dry in Florida sand, especially since Orlando is further north and so they have to contend with the occasional freeze and cooler winters overall.

Really, the ideal sites for these in the Orlando metro area are in the yards of large homes that will likely have irrigation and lawn services that provide at least some fertilizer.  This, or near or on the edge of lakes (especially the south and east sides where they will naturally have richer, moister soil.

There were some municipal plantings along a road in Metro West (near Orlando) but I recall seeing (Palmtalk thread) that they froze dead in 2010.  They were large but I seem to recall they were recently planted.

 

On 6/17/2020 at 6:57 PM, kinzyjr said:

Are these some of the ones you were referring to?: Roystonea regia - I-275 Median, St. Petersburg, FL

Coconut right down the street from there.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.7855272,-82.6616007,3a,15y,306.45h,82.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCWqOXueFqevmdGc3sa6Cxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Looks like these royals are replacing some Sylvesters killed by Bronzing.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.7841025,-82.6617161,3a,75y,137.05h,84.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smAF84Oz_lfEzwmTlYRKz5g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[Eric in Orlando]

Here is streetview (March 2020) of the Metrowest Royals. They were planted around 2008.
 

[Eric in Orlando]

[Eric in Orlando]

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

On 5/14/2016 at 9:22 PM, RedRabbit said:

 

The one behind is a royal for sure, here it is on streetview:  https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0654572,-82.5983995,3a,75y,189.5h,85.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suK-O40PC1RUZHShxF7KWxA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Good point on cool vs cold hardiness... As far as cold goes though, I should have mentioned foliage damage is only part of the story, but I've seen a few times now where P. roebelinii seem to take more foliage damage. I'm not too sure how they compare for bud hardiness.

 

 

On 5/14/2016 at 9:00 PM, RedRabbit said:

I'm beginning to wonder if R. regia is hardier than Phoenix roebelenii. The royal in the the background actually looks quite a bit better in the image below:

That Robelleni took that much damage? Even a bottle survived!

2011

now

 

scroll back to 2011

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0654639,-82.598285,3a,18.2y,250.92h,82.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s550yLQ6CRodZvWHoreRZ5A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[sonoranfans]

When I was in arizona, my 6 clusters of roebelinii fried to the ground, nothing green and almost all trunk came off within a couple months in 21F overnight freeze in 2007.  But they all came back, all 6 clusters.  But you can kill them with constantly wet low drainage clay soil.  

[kinzyjr]

This one in Lake Wales has taken its share of lumps over the years, but is mature and about to set seed again this year.  Definitely pre-2010, but not certain how far back it was planted or at what size.  The location is not far from the Eagle Ridge Mall, but not around a bunch of concrete.  The land is elevated some and near a very small lake.  It has a crack in the other side of its trunk so it may not be long for the world unfortunately.

[sonoranfans]

I think the trouble is that as walt showed us earlier, the temps at height for the coldest events we have are notably higher than 4-6' above ground levels used to determine "zones".  They can be, up to 10 degrees at 10M height.  So logically for central florida a big palm of any kind will be more cold tolerant if the bud is up aways off the ground.  So yes Royals are obviously more cold tolerant when large.  I was able to observe the kill off of the younger palms(royals and foxtails) in 28F radiational cold snap of 2010.  Yes ALL small royals nearby were defoliated and carked it, and any royal with a foot or more of grey trunk came back even when defoliated.  Foxtail survivors had more trunk generally but part of that is the low drainage soil I think.  The larger royals, 5+ Meter trunk in the area, appeared to have ~1/3rd burn, lower leaves only.  The advective event in 2018 was even more damaging on those big royals(1/2?), though it was 2 degrees warmer(@30F) and a 3-4 hours longer according to weather stations.  Height of the bud matters, and yes it can be a half zone.  There is also overhead protection that works in radiational events and windbreak which works some in all cold.   Lots of wind robs heat faster from a palm, all else equal.  The massive size of mature royal buds also means it take a longer time for them to cool at a fixed ambient temperature.  Just engineering heat transfer predicts this on any object whether its a hot rock small or large that you use to warm your feet at night when camping.  Big rocks hold lots of heat, so they cool slower.  Same is true of a big palm crownshaft around a bud.   A royal is easily one of the largest crownshafted palm buds out there if not the largest.  

[palmsOrl]

Thank you for sharing Eric, I had no idea they were still there.  Looks just like South Florida!  We need more scenes like this in the Orlando area and with time, I think we will get those as Phoenix falls out of favor due to lethal bronzing and hopefully no more Trachys like the ones at I4 and Maitland Blvd. that all died save for one or two that look ghastly and will not last much longer, by the looks of it.

The Livistona decora (and nitida?) look decent but nothing beats a royal.

[TampaPalms]

My wife and I were looking for new houses in Pasco County and I noticed the Epperson lagoon community is using Royal palms in their new construction site in the Pulte section.  Almost every other house in that section of the subdivision has royals planted and some foxtails. This area experiences freezes or frost at least once a year at minimum.  Also driving around there is a car wash and another strip mall just off of I-75 and State road 54 that are using royals as well.  Don't get me wrong I love Royal Palm trees but these homeowners are going to have a rude awakening in a year or two when they are killed off.

[Steve the palmreader]

These are growing in Jacksonville and they've been growing there for probably 20 to 25 years

[TampaPalms]

10 minutes ago, Steve the palmreader said:

These are growing in Jacksonville and they've been growing there for probably 20 to 25 years

Wow. Are those near the river? I noticed temperatures and areas like St Augustine and Jacksonville are sometimes warmer in the winter than in interior West Central Florida like Pasco and Hernando County. 

[Steve the palmreader]

Yes, But they are in the city limits.  A friend sent these pictures  , He has posted others over the years, When I lived there I had one that lasted for 10 years . When I sold my house the new owner cut it down when it was damaged in 2000

[RedRabbit]

1 hour ago, TampaPalms said:

My wife and I were looking for new houses in Pasco County and I noticed the Epperson lagoon community is using Royal palms in their new construction site in the Pulte section.  Almost every other house in that section of the subdivision has royals planted and some foxtails. This area experiences freezes or frost at least once a year at minimum.  Also driving around there is a car wash and another strip mall just off of I-75 and State road 54 that are using royals as well.  Don't get me wrong I love Royal Palm trees but these homeowners are going to have a rude awakening in a year or two when they are killed off.

Thanks for sharing, that’s neat to hear of a community in Pasco with royals and foxtails. 

On another note, why are you considering a move up there?

37 minutes ago, TampaPalms said:

Wow. Are those near the river? I noticed temperatures and areas like St Augustine and Jacksonville are sometimes warmer in the winter than in interior West Central Florida like Pasco and Hernando County. 

Those are right next to the St. John’s...

Some of Pasco isn’t too bad; some of NPR is 10a, LOL and Wesley Chapel are probably still 9B. Hernando is cold though, it might actually be on par with Savannah. 

[TampaPalms]

20 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Thanks for sharing, that’s neat to hear of a community in Pasco with royals and foxtails. 

On another note, why are you considering a move up there?

 

We have a very small home in the Tampa area. We need to expand and the cheapest option was to go north or south of Tampa to build and Pasco is a lot closer to our jobs and more reasonably priced. Tampa has become extremely expensive with the last year with homes and a decent neighborhood around 2,000 ft² starting over $300,000.  I will miss all my areca palms and my newly planted foxtail palm :-(

Edited August 13, 2020 by TampaPalms