Cold hardy chamaedorea

[Tropicdoc]

After radicalis and microspadix what's the next most cold hardy? I want to experiment against the north side of my house under canopy usually 9b but can be 9a some years.

[Laaz]

Probably Chamaedorea cataractarum, they do pretty well in the ground here.

[Monòver]

Chamaedorea pochutlensis will be good for your garden.

[grant b.]

I pretty much exclusively grow chamaedoreas on the north side of my house (w/o canopy) and would definitely say metallica would be the most cold hardy after radicalis and microspadix. the coldest I get is around 32-34F a couple nights per winter.

[Ed in Houston]

 

 

I planted half a dozen 5 gal. C. cataractarums and half a dozen 1 gal. C metallicas in 2008. All but one of each died in 2010 (covered) and the other 2 died in 2011. I planted another half a dozen C. cataractarums in spring 2012. Those had about 50% foliage damage in spring 2014 but after 2 growing seasons they have recovered nicely. Another half a dozen 1 gal. Metallics will go into the ground this spring.

C. Cataractarums grow faster with some sun.

2015    30    10a

2014    25    9b

2013    31    10a

2012    31    10a

2011    23    9a

2010    21    9a

2009    27    9b

2008    32    10a

2007    29    9b    

2006    30    10a

Ed in Houston

[Phoenikakias]

14 hours ago, grant b. said:

I pretty much exclusively grow chamaedoreas on the north side of my house (w/o canopy) and would definitely say metallica would be the most cold hardy after radicalis and microspadix. the coldest I get is around 32-34F a couple nights per winter.

I grow Chamaedorea spp also in the nothern part of my garden, nevertheless they need extra shade in summer during the middday. I am also at seaside but I guess the ocean make BIG difference. Look at my costaricana clump below. It is not exposed to afternoon sun but nevertheless scorch signs are there.

[John Case]

Ed. my limited experience with metallicas shows that unless they get less than 3 or so hours of sun, they have limited prospects.....however, they grow well in fully shaded spots! Good luck!

 

JC

[mcrawford]

I have a 25 gal size potted C. seifrizii on a north facing covered patio

for some 10+ yrs now.  The patio keeps the frost off, but doesn't do

much to abate the cold, which has gotten down to 22F a couple times

during it's tenure.  That combined with the hot summers of central Az

and the low humidity make this a bullet-proof plant here.

[Tropicdoc]

Good thread. The seifrezii looks good May try it. Costaricana would be awesome! Does it survive 25 F in Greece?

[Darold Petty]

I would rank C. radicalis first, then C. microspadix, and C. oreophila as third.

[Cikas]

Any update?!

I'm interested in this genus, but there is very little information about cold hardiness of different Chamaedorea species.

Which would be the most cold hardy after C. radicalis, C. microspadix and C. oreophila?

[Austinpalm]

I would include C. klotzschiana and plumosa in the discussion.  Radicalis and microspadix are definitely the top 2 in my opinion.  The other 3 are about equal in my experience.

[buffy]

I have a threesome of Dick Douglas' C. radicalis x C. oreophila hybrid. They saw 15F last year with some magnolia overhead protection.Unscathed and fruiting ever year. Not especially large yet, either. It's been impressive. We just went through 3 days below freezing with a low of 18F. No blemishes.

[CroToni]

2 hours ago, buffy said:

I have a threesome of Dick Douglas' C. radicalis x C. oreophila hybrid. They saw 15F last year with some magnolia overhead protection.Unscathed and fruiting ever year. Not especially large yet, either. It's been impressive. We just went through 3 days below freezing with a low of 18F. No blemishes.

Damn,do you have seeds?

Are you willing to sell a few?

Seems bulletproof here.

 

[buffy]

Check with Plant Delights Nursery. They sell plants periodically. I'll have some seeds around August. Holler back then.

[The Germinator]

Here is a list of my Chamy's that survived the 07 freeze with night temps dipping to the twenties for a week here in Whittier barrio loco.

Chamaedorea ernesti-augusti
Chamaedorea cataractarum
Chamaedorea elegans
Chamaedorea klotzschiana
Chamaedorea macrospadix
Chamaedorea metallica
Chamaedorea radicalis
Chamaedorea seifrizii
Chamaedorea tepejilote

[Fusca]

On 1/10/2018, 10:50:34, buffy said:

I have a threesome of Dick Douglas' C. radicalis x C. oreophila hybrid. They saw 15F last year with some magnolia overhead protection.Unscathed and fruiting ever year. Not especially large yet, either. It's been impressive. We just went through 3 days below freezing with a low of 18F. No blemishes.

If you've got 3 of them you likely have male and female, but do you have other Chamaedoreas that might be unintentionally adding some pollen to the mix?  Regardless, if you get viable seeds they should be interesting and cold hardy!     I'm amazed at how young/small the Chamy's start flowering.  My C. microspadix I grew from seed 2 years ago has started flowering already and I haven't even put it in the ground yet!  But the only way I'll get seed is if I keep it near my potted C. cataractum and they are different sexes.  Time will tell...

Jon

[Cikas]

I have Chamaedorea pochutlensis, and it was was proven to be quite hardy in my climate.

[Phoenikakias]

On 13/1/2016, 4:53:23, Tropicdoc said:

Good thread. The seifrezii looks good May try it. Costaricana would be awesome! Does it survive 25 F in Greece?

I just saw the question, so better late (the answer) than never. Since my plant had been levelled to the ground by the 2004 cold spell with a min of 28F, having servived only the rhizome, I feel bound to predict that a 25F under same circumstances would be fatal. During same event seifrizii had perished completely. 

[Tropicdoc]

On 1/14/2018, 2:42:55, Phoenikakias said:

I just saw the question, so better late (the answer) than never. Since my plant had been levelled to the ground by the 2004 cold spell with a min of 28F, having servived only the rhizome, I feel bound to predict that a 25F under same circumstances would be fatal. During same event seifrizii had perished completely. 

Thanks. That means it’s a no go here.

[DAVEinMB]

On 1/10/2016 at 4:16 PM, Laaz said:

Probably Chamaedorea cataractarum, they do pretty well in the ground here.

Todd, you got any of these in the ground? Big box always has them here for cheap but from what I've read it would be a waste of time

[palmbrad]

I have a Chamaedorea cataractarum next to my porch. Some years it gets knocked back much worse than others but has managed to stay alive even coming back after being decimated in 2018. 

[Paradise Found]

Chamaedorea plumosa is not only really pretty, said to be hardy to 23F for short duration ( 1hour) and must be above freezing during the day.  Anyone have any experience with this one?

Edited January 19, 2021 by Paradise Found

[DAVEinMB]

1 hour ago, palmbrad said:

I have a Chamaedorea cataractarum next to my porch. Some years it gets knocked back much worse than others but has managed to stay alive even coming back after being decimated in 2018. 

That's definitely promising info. How long has it been in the ground for and what temps do you notice it start getting angry?

[palmbrad]

24 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

That's definitely promising info. How long has it been in the ground for and what temps do you notice it start getting angry?

Probably around 10 years now. Often I will use wall o waters a year or two when establishing a small palm and pretty sure I had did that with this one in the beginning. Mid 20s for any period will defoliate. I had grown a bunch from seed and planted them throughout the yard last year so come spring will be interesting to see how they fared. Lowest I had this year so far was 24.

[DAVEinMB]

@palmbrad thanks for the info, may give one a shot after all

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

On 1/10/2018 at 10:50 AM, buffy said:

I have a threesome of Dick Douglas' C. radicalis x C. oreophila hybrid. They saw 15F last year with some magnolia overhead protection.Unscathed and fruiting ever year. Not especially large yet, either. It's been impressive. We just went through 3 days below freezing with a low of 18F. No blemishes.

Would love to see pics of this hybrid and definitely interested in buying some seeds off of you if available one day. 

[buffy]

My threesome got smoked by my 8F day later in 2018. Two have survived. Just haven't fruited. One small seedling has also appeared. We'll see if I get some fruit set. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Just now, buffy said:

My threesome got smoked by my 8F day later in 2018. Two have survived. Just haven't fruited. One small seedling has also appeared. We'll see if I get some fruit set. 

What a bummer =( glad you still have some tho 8F is cold smh especially for such a petite palm. Still would love to see pics one day 

T J 

[mnorell]

In Natchez (9a) I grew the following, based on a mixture of my memory and notes I could find:
- radicalis: the most hardy, reseeding everywhere, damaged in exposed areas in the upper teens but not too badly. Trunking forms killed around 18F in a long, drawn-out freeze.
- microspadix: about as hardy, loses canes (or some permanently damaged) at 18F, but mine retained a decent number of them even in 2018 at 13F.
- cataractarum: likes a sunny spot and can return (slowly) after hard freezes. Dies down in the low 20s or loses canes, but often returns. I had one in a protected area that returned even after the 13F event in 2018.
- 'Florida hybrid' (I think this is seifrizii x elegans).  This gets killed back almost every winter in 9a Natchez, but never gets killed. It came back after the 13F in 2018 and is still there today, but always small as you can imagine because of its annual cut-down/regrow cycle. Maybe in a protected spot under an eave against a wall it would stay up most winters down into the 20s.
- oreophila: good to 27F, it died somewhere in the low 20s if I remember right. Not as hardy as I had hoped. There are hybrids that have been made and I would have loved to try them. You could buy an oreophila and attempt some manual hybrids with radicalis or microspadix, providing there aren't any barriers to their compatibility.
- nubium, brachypoda:  two very, very similar species, planted near each other under a live oak. One died in the 2010 winter, the other has reliably returned after hard freezes, even after 2018. While C. nubium is I think high-elevation and documented as extraordinarily hardy (returning from 14F in the 1990 freeze in Berkeley, California), the one that returned for me popped up next to my C. brachypoda sign, and my notes say I had fairly high confidence it was C. brachypoda. But I can't swear it, and who knows, the i.d. may have been wrong on the plants I bought since they are so similar. Whichever species it is, it remains up in the 20s, dies back in bad winters around 20F but comes back each year under a live oak. Even after the three-day (solid) freeze in 2010 and 13F in 2018. It's a cute little ground-cover-style bifid-leaf palm that travels by a rhizome-like structure and hence its hardiness if the ground doesn't freeze. In Houma I think it would stay up a lot more if given overhead protection.
- plumosa: croaked at 23F
- woodsoniana: same as plumosa. Bit the dust I think at about 23F.

I think C. linearis (high elevation provenance would help) would be a good one to test if you can find it. It ranges from sea-level to something like 8000' elevation in, I think, Colombia. You might have to verify elevation provenance on the seed/plant you buy.
 

 

[Patrick]

On 1/19/2021 at 12:10 PM, Paradise Found said:

Chamaedorea plumosa is not only really pretty, said to be hardy to 23F for short duration ( 1hour) and must be above freezing during the day.  Anyone have any experience with this one?

Mine did the 07 freeze just fine.  I got down to 23 in my yard, but these were probably 5' away from the house and in between houses. mid 20's no problem.

[Keys6505]

Surprised there was only 1 mention of Elegans based on their availability.  Are they cold sensitive?  I could swear I've read things on them taking down into the 20's.  I picked some up with the intention of separating the huge clump into a ton of plants and putting them into the ground this year.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

On 1/20/2021 at 5:10 PM, Keys6505 said:

I picked some up with the intention of separating the huge clump into a ton of plants and putting them into the ground this year.

How did this work out ? I'm collecting as many of this genus, trying to start with hardiest ones first. I think for sure Microspadix next , making a Floribunda order as we speak 😃

T J 

[Lou-StAugFL]

On 1/20/2021 at 6:10 PM, Keys6505 said:

Surprised there was only 1 mention of Elegans based on their availability.  Are they cold sensitive?  I could swear I've read things on them taking down into the 20's.  I picked some up with the intention of separating the huge clump into a ton of plants and putting them into the ground this year.

I've grown Elegans for probably 30 years in my side yard and have never protected them and I have never had one die or even have frond burn.  I am in northeast Florida but in a very good mircoclimate but I know they have seen 25 degrees at least once here in all those years.

[Keys6505]

9 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

How did this work out ? I'm collecting as many of this genus, trying to start with hardiest ones first. I think for sure Microspadix next , making a Floribunda order as we speak 😃

T J 

She's still kicking.  Been in ground for about a year and a half now.  Most of the 40-or-so plants in the 4" pot they came in slowly sputtered out leaving only 2 or 3, but those few are about 18" high now.  In all honesty they are completely engulfed buy other plants, get zero light, zero fertilizer, and I forgot they were there until you asked lol.  Maybe I'll show them a little love tomorrow.