Tender palms in ground with greenhouse over them in winter?

[Palm crazy]

Anyone growing any tender palms this way…I’m thinking of trying two of my tender palms a Dypsis Boronii , and Chamaedorea plumosa.

 Love to know if anyone has this type of set up and what palms or plants are you trying? Mine will be heated with thermocube 45/35F, heater will be oil base. 

 Thanks! 

Edited January 3, 2016 by Palm crazy

[palm tree man]

I have done this before and it works.  The main thing to remember is that it will not really help if your ground freezes.  I have mostly used it to help young marginal palms get a running head start.  Farmers use this trick allot but it us much easier with low growing plants like strawberries.  

[Palm crazy]

41 minutes ago, palm tree man said:

I have done this before and it works.  The main thing to remember is that it will not really help if your ground freezes.  I have mostly used it to help young marginal palms get a running head start.  Farmers use this trick allot but it us much easier with low growing plants like strawberries.  

Thanks palm tree man, This is what I was hoping.

Should work and if it get warmer on sunnier days thats ok to.

 As far as ground freezing - I was going to put leaf mulch inside and up against the walls on the outside for insulation.

BTW, I have native strawberries here as ground covers. Smaller fruit but very sweet. Nice little snack while you walk around the garden. 

Thanks for answering! 

 

Edited January 3, 2016 by Palm crazy

[smithgn]

Palm crazy- I've partially done this with small juvenile/seedlings. I'm doing it with these: Arenga Engleri, Ravenea Glauca , Dypsis Onilahensis and a Laccospadix Australasica. We haven't had any frigid nights, so I've mostly just kept the greenhouse over them when nights have gone into the 30's and below. No additional heat. I've purchased the smallest oil heaters I could find and I've saved them for any of the super cold nights. With this upcoming cold front, I may try the heaters out for the first time. I haven't taken into account the ground freezing...

On a side note, the palms I listed above wont get terribly tall. So hopefully I can continue to put a greenhouse over them with that supplemental heat for as long as I need to. With my zone 8 climate, these palms shouldn't reach above 10 feet anytime this century... Lol

The stuff I use:

Optimus oil-filled radiator heater- 700 watts

NuVue Greenhouses

 

What's your setup going to be like?

[Icy Palm]

Hi,

i ll try the same this year in zone 6b Norway. To prevent the ground from freezing I am thinking of hear cables on a thermostat in the ground. Does this sounds correct? I would like to plant palms that can tolerate at least minus 5 degrees Celcius (23 Fahrenheit). Will post updates from coming spring.

[Flow]

This is done a lot in northern Europe. People build entire houses of styrofoam, wood, bubble wrap etc and wrap heating cables around the trunk and the crown.. Since I've only started growing palms in 2012 we haven't come across a winter that would have made that necessary.

Icy palm, how long do your freezes last? Does the ground often freeze solid in winter? If not, heating cables in the ground are a total overkill. It will normally suffice to apply a thick layer of mulch around the base of the palm. If you use some kind of styro house you can just put some mulch around it as well. And if you are still doubtful, lay one or two circles of heating cable on the ground.

Btw: Do not trust any hardiness lists. They are useless over here. At most, they indicate what temperatures will not instantly kill your palm within an hour or two. In zone 6b you have a very limited choice of palms, even with protection. I'd recommend joining a European board as well, to get some more ideas.

[Icy Palm]

Dear Flow, thank you for your response. The winter laste at least 5 months with regular freezing periode over at least 3 months. Lows can get to minus 20 Celcius. The ground freezes often (top soil). But my thought was that soil heat also heats the greenhouse. 

I currently grow jubaea chilensis, Phoenix canarienses, trachycarpus fortunei, chamaerops humilus and vulcano, brahea armata, cactus, various yucca's, etc. these are all in pots in a shed right now but will go in the ground. The shed is heated with an electric heater.

indoors yellow and blue latania, bananas, dypsis, foxtails, Kentia, etc. But they Will stay inside. Maybe sago is also an option in the ground if properly heated :-)

if I don't try nobody will know!

[Palm crazy]

Hey more people thinking about this than I thought., LOL! 

Smithgm I am using an older portable greenhouse I got at lows 10 years ago. 8’L x 6’W x 7.6’H. It a great little greenhouse because there no tools needed to put together and the roof and sides are all one big plastic that fits over it in one piece. 

 I already have a few plants in the ground like cordylines, chamearops, Mule palm BxQ, and T. princeps….most of these are fine without protection, but since there in the ground where I want to plant a few tender shrubs and succulents from Australia and Africa in the same area the greenhouse will be perfect set up. 

I’ll post some pics as I do the project. BTW the low this morning 23F Yikes it cold out.  Also I saw on the weather channel that the East coast is might have their first big freeze come middle of January. Well see! 

Heres the greenhouse I am using works really good and is so easy to put together. http://www.amazon.com/Spring-Gardener-Gable-Greenhouse-Feet/dp/B0037QGR6A

[Palm crazy]

Well me and a friend moved the greenhouse to protect some tender plants. This little greenhouse has been in deep shade for the last 10 years so it got a few green spot on it but that should go away when it warms up. Inside is pretty sweet for the palms and other exotics.  Not a lot of extra room inside but I think I can still add some interesting tender stuff this year. 

[Tropicdoc]

I use the same type of greenhouses except I use electric utility heaters. I've had a myola king outgrow the greenhouse in zone 9a and I have also got heliconia to flower.

[Palm crazy]

25 minutes ago, Tropicdoc said:

I use the same type of greenhouses except I use electric utility heaters. I've had a myola king outgrow the greenhouse in zone 9a and I have also got heliconia to flower.

I remember you saying you had the same set up a few times and how successful it was for growing outside you’re gardening zone. Wow, thats awesome a heliconia. Love to see pics? 

Protes would be better for my climate. I plan on putting Lecadendron ‘Jester’ inside this winter enclosure come fall. Most of the plants I am growing can take low 20F.  So I don’t have to heat it very often. By April I’ll take the cover off for the growing season. I just wish I had done this sooner!  

 

[Josh-O]

My personal hats off to all you zone pushers out there. I really dig reading threads like this one. The passion, creativity and dedication is inspirational to say the least. You guys aren't afraid to take the risk and just go for it.

[smithgn]

1 hour ago, Josh-O said:

My personal hats off to all you zone pushers out there. I really dig reading threads like this one. The passion, creativity and dedication is inspirational to say the least. You guys aren't afraid to take the risk and just go for it.

Thanks, Josh. A lot of our neighbors probably think we're crazy and possibly a few palm talkers as well, but its sometimes fun thinking of different ways to protect plants that we have an adoration for. It pays off when spring comes around and everything is close to intact. Thanks again for the kind words : )

13 hours ago, Palm crazy said:

Well me and a friend moved the greenhouse to protect some tender plants. This little greenhouse has been in deep shade for the last 10 years so it got a few green spot on it but that should go away when it warms up. Inside is pretty sweet for the palms and other exotics.  Not a lot of extra room inside but I think I can still add some interesting tender stuff this year. 

 

 

I've saved the link you provided for that particular greenhouse. I can see myself using this one as my palms grow larger! I think you have a great setup. You've probably already thought of this, but you could even plant some desert type palms (I believe you have a few braheas, don't you?) and throw this protection over them during overly damp periods to keep them dry. I've even gone to the extent of doing this when we had crazy amounts of rainfall in early October.

[nitsua0895]

I'm in zone 8b and since November I've had a portable greenhouse over a planted Pygmy Date palm. Luckily we've only had two light freezes but I've been able to keep the temperature up to 30F warmer than outside at night with only a small electric heater. And when the sun is out I've been able to water inside and create a humid environment up to 85F. 

[Palm crazy]

Josh thanks for the complements! Love seeing our garden tour also on the main board. Were a little envious of you guys in warmer climate. LOL! This makes is a little easier to get more tender plants through the winters here. 

Smithgn, I do have one brahea armata, only problem is I have so many other plants around it, its hard to put any protection over it all. So it just has the trachy palm for over head cover. I plan on putting some tender desert plants inside the greenhouse  that are to tender otherwise, like aloes and cactus. I have hard time even growing some of the more cold tolerant agaves since they hate moister. It so grey and cloud here in the winter it really helps to have a rain cover like this. 

Austin, thats a sweet little pop up greenhouse. Perfect for your pygmy palm.  Mazing palm for you guys.  I now wish my garden wasn’t so full, but maybe I can use some thing like you have. 

Having the greenhouse over my little tender plants helps me sleep better, lol! 

 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Palm crazy

[akaranus]

nice topic  

i am doing this for years and it works, in my zone 9a have for years now bismarckias, ravanea rivularis, howea, dracena draco.. here i have some pictures here how i do it..

http://www.mediterraneannature.com/winter-protection-for-plants/

i dont know what to do when palm grow to big 

Edited January 8, 2016 by akaranus
grammar

[Palm crazy]

Ante, What an amazing garden you have created, hard to believe its the same sunny mediterranean garden compared to the summer video. Good Job and some great protection techniques! Thanks for sharing!

LOL, that is the 10,000 dollar question, what to do when the palm outgrow their protection. 

[Tropicdoc]

I use the spring gardener gable greenhouse 6 x 8 and 8 x 10. I tried all kinds of homemade hoop houses and none were strong enough to hold up to strong winds or torrential rains. The greenhouses are well worth the money.... They go up in about an hour and store easily from year to year.

[Tropicdoc]

I loved the look on Keith's face when he saw my heliconias if no one sees your garden in winter they will never know your trick! 

[Tropicdoc]

I'll get some pics this weekend the greenhouse is up over my heliconias right now I havnt deployed a heater yet..... No freezes yet.... Shhhhhhh

[nitsua0895]

 

27 minutes ago, Tropicdoc said:

I'll get some pics this weekend the greenhouse is up over my heliconias right now I havnt deployed a heater yet..... No freezes yet.... Shhhhhhh

Those Heliconias look amazing! I'd like to try and grow them in zone 8b with my greenhouse but I read online that they can suffer injury below 55F. Have you noticed them having any problems when it's cold but not freezing? 

[Tropicdoc]

Yes they are not happy below 55 but if some sun hits the greenhouse it warms up even in winter so that daytime heat into the 80s keeps them going and all they have to do is survive because once our hot humid summer hits, they think they are back in the amazon and start growing like gangbusters 

[Tropicdoc]

The greenhouse also keeps the tubers dry in winter which I believe is also beneficial to avoid rot

[siege2050]

I live in zone 7a and have a 30 foot long unheated Polly tunnel built over a 2 foot deep pit. I keep tropicals alive at floor level with only a layer of dewitt ultimate frost cloth and a layer of plastic over that. Taller stuff I lay down and cover when its cold. It gets down to around zero outside, but they all survive. The pit walls give off some of the heat from the ground which helps a lot. I stand my Brugmansias up when it is forecast to get no lower than the upper twenties, and some varieties like Charles Grimaldi get no leaf burn when its 28 or so outside at night. I have had potted small cannas not get burned under the 2 foot pit level at 25F outside, but anything above the 2 feet of pit was killed back that was not covered, so the pit is much warmer than the rest of the greenhouse air. Greenhouses do make some difference, sometimes only a couple of degrees if small and unheated, but it helps. It also helps with keeping out rot which is a problem with damp and cold. I grow lemon grass in the floor of the greenhouse (takes 120 in summer inside with no problem phew) this way. With a heater shouldn't be an issue.

Edited January 12, 2016 by siege2050