L. Grandis vs L. Sumawongii, how do they compare size-wise?

[PalmWarbler]

I've never had the pleasure to see a mature tree in either version but have read L. Grandis is the smaller of the two.

Can anyone give me a good comparison in relation to size difference between the two when mature?

Even better, anyone have one of each planted next to each other?

[Richie]

I wouldn't say that Grandis is the smaller of the two as they can grow 3 or 4 meters of trunk , but the Sumawongii would have larger leaves and longer petioles than the Grandis .

Mind you  , I haven't seen a mature Sumawongii either and am only going on what I'm growing .

[Jeff Searle]

I happen to have both planted up near the office and are approx. 15-18' from each other. And they both happen to be the same height ( 12') as one another. But here's the difference, the L. grandis has about 8' of trunk where as L. peltata Sumawongii has really no "wood trunk", just approx. 3-4' of clearance where the old leaves have been trimmed. The LG leaves are 3-4' across and the LPS leaves are 5-6' across. Both palms hold about the same amount of leaves per tree. The overall spread ( width ) of each has the LPS 1 1/2 times wider.

Hope this helps some.

Jeff

[Really full garden]

The overall size of sumawongii is 3x more than grandis. What I really like about sumawongii is that it can handle much more direct sun than grandis.

[Hammer]

Love the LPS.  Can't grow LG here.

Would love to see some photos please, if you got 'em.

[PalmWarbler]

Thanks guys, the detailed info is a huge help. I have an LG in a spot where there are 5 others planted (2 sets of 3) and all are flourishing but for some reason one of them is not doing well with the sun. I really don't have space to plant anything to block/shade that one any more than it is and was considering switching it for a nice LPS that I recently purchased at the palm show.

After reading the real-world size differences I don't think that's going to be a good idea though.

Edited December 9, 2015 by PalmWarbler

[Cindy Adair]

Interesting discussion as always. I have at least 4 LG in full to part shade and they fit Jeff Searle's description.

My one LPS started from a tiny seedling is in full shade and has been "pruned" by cattle, but the multiple leaves are only at most 12" in diameter. So smaller than my LG leaves.

 I hope with time and protection from cows I can see the big leaves?

[Pal Meir]

On 8.12.2015, 15:14:59, scottgt said:

The overall size of sumawongii is 3x more than grandis. What I really like about sumawongii is that it can handle much more direct sun than grandis.

This Licuala grandis was exposed all the day to direct sun in Singapore Botanical Gardens at latitude 2°North:

[doranakandawatta]

I wouldn't plant Licuala grandis near Licuala peltata Sumawongii since their habit is different; as Jeff said, Grandis is showing a trunk ; Sumawongii doesn't.

Here pictures from Singapore Botanic Gardens (again) showing how these species (and other Licuala) can be mixed with other plants in a wild jungle look:

 

 

 

[doranakandawatta]

Just to show the shape of almost mature Licuala grandis, with trunks:

Now a Licuala peltata 'Sumawongii'  in Samarakoon's garden:

 

[Really full garden]

3 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

This Licuala grandis was exposed all the day to direct sun in Singapore Botanical Gardens at latitude 2°North:

In my climate Licuala grandis can survive in full sun,but they certainly do not look very happy.They need filtered sun or morning sun to look their best.

[PalmWarbler]

OK so at the very least I got to see some pics of awesome palms! :-)

The pics of them together certainly do highlight the differences, so yes agreed mixing them is out of the question.

I really don't know why one out of the six LG is not doing well, I've moved some potted plants to block it in the past and it reacted well so I think it is the sun it's receiving in that spot. I'll have to come up with an alternate plan and give it some canopy to shade it a bit more.

[The Palm Nut]

Here is a good comparison the grandis is about 25 years old and the elegans about 12 years. The grandis hasn't had protection or added heat for atleast the last 8years or so. It does brown off around the edges of the leafs but I just cut it off. If you can keep it alive in a climate like mine for 15 years its seem to handle the cold pretty good eventually, even down to 2C which is about as cold as it gets in that particular spot. The elegans has produced seed for the first time, I wonder if they will be viable, hope so!

Cheers

Mike

 

[eatcitrus]

On 12/9/2015 at 4:54 PM, The Palm Nut said:

Here is a good comparison the grandis is about 25 years old and the elegans about 12 years. The grandis hasn't had protection or added heat for atleast the last 8years or so. It does brown off around the edges of the leafs but I just cut it off. If you can keep it alive in a climate like mine for 15 years its seem to handle the cold pretty good eventually, even down to 2C which is about as cold as it gets in that particular spot. The elegans has produced seed for the first time, I wonder if they will be viable, hope so!

Cheers

Mike

 

Is the Grandis the one of the left? Elegans on the right underneath the white chair?

Any updated photos?

[The Palm Nut]

The Grandis is the one on the right under the white chair. 

I will add an updated photo. 

Cheers

[The Palm Nut]

Seven years and not a huge difference in size though the Grandis has about 3 inches of new trunk and is definitely doing better with a roof over its head.  The Elegans not so much extra trunk growth maybe a couple of inches at best. I mulch each year so hard to tell how much trunk lay under the ground. Sence the flood of 2020 rainfall has been better than average, and the garden is looking better than it's ever been.

Elegans are slow growing at least down my way, and the Grandis should have died a long time ago given its pedigree. 

Cheers

Mike

[peachy]

I will add to the confusion now. For me L grandis is much faster growing than the L. peltata (formerly Elegans ?)  Both have proven to be very cold resistant, surviving temps down to -2 without harm.  I grow them outside and indoors with equal success, but no matter how gently and slowly I try to sun-harden the bloody things they croak every time! All mine are currently in pots and will stay there until I grow some more canopy.  Grandis are notorious for brown edges around the leaves but I found out that if I put about 2cm of gravel in the bottom of the pot they stay green all over.  How I manage this party trick once they are in the ground is another story !

Peachy

 

[Rick Kelley]

Yesterday the Hawaii Island Palm Society got to tour the former Carlsmith legacy palm garden located adjacent to Hawaii Tropical Bioreserve and Garden just north of Hilo.  The IPS biennial got to tour this garden in October 2022 shortly after the new owners had arrived on island.  This is an amazing collection of huge, old palms.  Jeff Marcus was on hand to provide expert commentary.  I'll just share one photo from the tour relevant to this thread. Here is a grouping of Licuala peltata var. Sumawongii (aka L. elegans) that are probably over 40 years old.  They could be around 25 ft tall with an equal spread.  Jeff said these were the biggest specimens he has seen outside habitat. The fronds are at least 5 ft in diameter, maybe more.  Totally out of this world.  And they were loaded with fruit.  Every palm garden in Hawaii is growing this species, just not this big.

 

For comparison, here are some Licuala grands growing about a quarter mile away in HTBG.  Probably roughly the same age.  The trunks are more slender and much taller.  The fronds are considerably smaller with shorter petioles.  Maybe not obvious in these photos, but overall a much more modest species in person. The two species might be confused when growing in pots, but once in the ground they are easily distinguished.