W. filifera in Albuquerque

[ChrisA]

Oh no, I think they're toast.  The filifera have been around for a long time and even they defoliate nearly completely every winter.  Can't imagine these very large Mexican Fan Palms and Date Palms will be able to withstand the long cold winter Albuquerque gets.

 

I hope the homeowner really enjoys them for this season! Maybe they're super wealthy and can afford to replace each year? If not, they're in for an expensive lesson.

 

If someone can post the address I'd love to check them out sometime when I'm back this summer!  TIA!

[SailorBold]

13 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Woah, will those get defoliated every winter there? Washingtonia Robusta is around 20F, Dates maybe 17. 

Most likely...  They will survive... but the dates recover so slow I dont know if the owner will want to deal with them looking crappy most of the time...  those washingtonia may be hybrids by the looks of them...  those should be at least 80-90% hardy here..and they will get plenty of water from the grass. I dunno..  if they were mine...

   The mean lows from the airport anyway for december and january are 12f and 14f...well within 8a...  and the avg.. with severe freezes (if I understand correctly) is 9.6f

The problem is that the climate is so close to being palmy...  3-4 degrees or so... yet just not right there yet... they are classified as marginal.  i agree with it.   Im impressed with how well the larger sized transplants do overall.  Worth it.

[SailorBold]

5 hours ago, jwitt said:

Who knows?  Got large filiferea living decades unprotected in a warm zone 6b mere miles from these palms.

 Seen thin trunk washingintonia survive -11f in 2/2011 but succumb to -1f that happened in 12/2011.

Many robustas and date palm survived -5f south of this location. 

Oh, don't forget these palms will be in a location with about 170 day growing season.  I'm guessing this locale, is a zone 7a if it is where I think it is.

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

Yeah I dunno... i think the Washingtonias will be permanent... hopefully they dont give up on them while they are recovering each spring during establishment (IMO takes 7-10 years)..

The dates will survive but slowly decline... but like you said... who knows... there are dates in TorC.  the winter lows in january are only a degree warmer at 27f.. looking at averages..

 

Hey are you ready to plant some pure filifera in the drainage pond?

[SailorBold]

20 minutes ago, ChrisA said:

Oh no, I think they're toast.  The filifera have been around for a long time and even they defoliate nearly completely every winter.  Can't imagine these very large Mexican Fan Palms and Date Palms will be able to withstand the long cold winter Albuquerque gets.

 

I hope the homeowner really enjoys them for this season! Maybe they're super wealthy and can afford to replace each year? If not, they're in for an expensive lesson.

 

If someone can post the address I'd love to check them out sometime when I'm back this summer!  TIA!

Just keep in mind tho.. that the filifera in Albuquerque are all tainted with robusta to some degree...  I'm not entirely convinced these are pure robustas due to the open-ish crown...

[ChrisA]

How did the date palm do on the grounds of Plant World at the corner of Edith and El Pueblo?  The thing I think that really hits Albuquerque palms is the total number of hours below freezing. There are MANY evenings where the temp drops to the mid 20's right as the sun sets.  

[ChrisA]

13 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Woah, will those get defoliated every winter there? Washingtonia Robusta is around 20F, Dates maybe 17. 

They will definitely get defoliated every winter.

[SailorBold]

1 hour ago, ChrisA said:

How did the date palm do on the grounds of Plant World at the corner of Edith and El Pueblo?  The thing I think that really hits Albuquerque palms is the total number of hours below freezing. There are MANY evenings where the temp drops to the mid 20's right as the sun sets.  

They defoliated when the arctic freeze came...with the half crown they grew over the summer..  They are field planted..  Im not sure how fast an established date will grow..  that will be interesting to find out if these survive.  Yeah I know... living in high desert... no heat retention.

It appears the best large palms that can handle the normal winters in Albuquerque without defoliation are the Jubaea x Butia Hybrids and the Butia x Jubaea hybrids.. I covered my Jubaea x butia during the arctic event.. and left the BXJ on its own...   There was no defoliation on either of these trees at 2 nights of 9-10f...  but if its a long duration with a couple days below freezing that is where the problems start.  i cant wait until the jubaea x butia seeds....  these need to be widely planted... they handle the heat... the cold... the alkalinity... the sand...tap water  etc.  Looks as tho Sabal Mexicana may be an upcoming palm as well.

Edited May 4, 2021 by SailorBold

[ChrisA]

Here is an update on the filibusta at my Albuquerque house.  Had to trim many dead fronds from this winter’s cold. This palm saw 7F to nights in a row. 
 

 

[Gator]

41 minutes ago, ChrisA said:

Here is an update on the filibusta at my Albuquerque house.  Had to trim many dead fronds from this winter’s cold. This palm saw 7F to nights in a row. 
 

 

its lookin like a champ !

[LeonardHolmes]

Amazing to watch this palm over 6 years.  I have a newly planted small robusta and filifera in eastern NC that will suffer and probably die in a year or two. Supposedly zone 8B but probably really 8a.  Lots of humidity and winter moisture, but planted in sandy soil.

[ChrisA]

1 hour ago, LeonardHolmes said:

Amazing to watch this palm over 6 years.  I have a newly planted small robusta and filifera in eastern NC that will suffer and probably die in a year or two. Supposedly zone 8B but probably really 8a.  Lots of humidity and winter moisture, but planted in sandy soil.

I swear these hybrids get the absolute best of both worlds. I hope you have better luck than you think.  It’s quite possible your are hybrids also?  I bought this palm as a Filifera at a Phoenix nursery about 15 years ago. It became more apparent as it grew that it was certainly a hybrid.  It stays green down to about 15 especially if there are not multiple days of below freezing weather and cloudiness.

[SailorBold]

On 5/4/2021 at 12:06 PM, SailorBold said:

Just keep in mind tho.. that the filifera in Albuquerque are all tainted with robusta to some degree...  I'm not entirely convinced these are pure robustas due to the open-ish crown...

Here is a Filifera x Robusta trunk...just for reference..  and crown structure..

Edited December 19, 2021 by SailorBold

[SailorBold]

On 5/4/2021 at 12:19 PM, ChrisA said:

They will definitely get defoliated every winter.

 

On 5/4/2021 at 12:12 PM, ChrisA said:

How did the date palm do on the grounds of Plant World at the corner of Edith and El Pueblo?  The thing I think that really hits Albuquerque palms is the total number of hours below freezing. There are MANY evenings where the temp drops to the mid 20's right as the sun sets.  

Here is a recovery shot...  This palm has been there going on 2 years I think...?  Perhaps if it gets more established it may be able to fully recover each summer....  ?  I looked at the low for this area of town and it was 11-12f last winter...

Edited December 19, 2021 by SailorBold

[Jimhardy]

Nice Washy,starting to look like an adult.

[Ltapia]

On 6/16/2021 at 7:51 AM, ChrisA said:

Here is an update on the filibusta at my Albuquerque house.  Had to trim many dead fronds from this winter’s cold. This palm saw 7F to nights in a row. 
 

 

Bump Any new pics this year ?

[Desert DAC]

15 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

Bump Any new pics this year ?

No updates on any of the Washy palms in ABQ. Hopefully I can finally visit some this fall, before winter does its thing. But Google street view did a drive-by to the one in 7-Bar Ranch in Feb 2022. Looks like the usual winter burn of  fronds. It also looks like another Washy inside the courtyard in earlier pics has been removed... perhaps planted too close to the house?

A cool curiosity and shows the west side of the Rio Grande as the most palmy place in ABQ and central NM, but brown fronds in winter defeat the purpose of having a palm to me, though that's not as bad as having to wrap up palms like in Salt Lake, etc. So, still best T or C / Tularosa and south in a solid to high z 8.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Desert DAC

[NBTX11]

On 6/16/2021 at 8:51 AM, ChrisA said:

Here is an update on the filibusta at my Albuquerque house.  Had to trim many dead fronds from this winter’s cold. This palm saw 7F to nights in a row. 
 

 

This palm has some serious Filifera traits, and looks close to a pure Filifera. I don’t see a whole lot of Robusta traits, if any.  Not sure why we’re calling this a Filibusta. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by NBTX11

[Ltapia]

55 minutes ago, Desert DAC said:

No updates on any of the Washy palms in ABQ. Hopefully I can finally visit some this fall, before winter does its thing. But Google street view did a drive-by to the one in 7-Bar Ranch in Feb 2022. Looks like the usual winter burn of  fronds. It also looks like another Washy inside the courtyard in earlier pics has been removed... perhaps planted too close to the house?

A cool curiosity and shows the west side of the Rio Grande as the most palmy place in ABQ and central NM, but brown fronds in winter defeat the purpose of having a palm to me, though that's not as bad as having to wrap up palms like in Salt Lake, etc. So, still best T or C / Tularosa and south in a solid to high z 8.

These look really good I was there a week ago fully green . Got seeds too lol which the lady said rarely happens 

[Las Palmas Norte]

On 12/18/2021 at 9:41 PM, SailorBold said:

Here is a Filifera x Robusta trunk...just for reference..  and crown structure..

 

El gordo !!!

[jwitt]

On 8/27/2020 at 9:39 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

@Desert DAC Off topic question for you, or anyone else there in ABQ/ rest of N.M.  Anyone know of a local source for seed of both Quercus grisea and /or Q. turbinella? 

Try trees that please out of Los Lunas

 

https://www.treesthatplease.org/

 

[jwitt]

50 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

These look really good I was there a week ago fully green . Got seeds too lol which the lady said rarely happens 

I think the one on the left bloomed for the first time last year. So they just entered blooming age.  Sailorbold documented the bloom, last year?

Those palms saw 7f and that is the reason for the brown this spring. 

-10f seeds you have there!

[Ltapia]

35 minutes ago, jwitt said:

I think the one on the left bloomed for the first time last year. So they just entered blooming age.  Sailorbold documented the bloom, last year?

Those palms saw 7f and that is the reason for the brown this spring. 

-10f seeds you have there!

Definitely I have some germinating now I think I need to plant my big hybrid it’s really yellowing up and I think it’s getting outgrown for the pot not sure if it’s safe to plant now or just wait till spring confused .

[jwitt]

1 hour ago, Ltapia said:

Definitely I have some germinating now I think I need to plant my big hybrid it’s really yellowing up and I think it’s getting outgrown for the pot not sure if it’s safe to plant now or just wait till spring confused .

I would wait to plant til late Feb/March.  It is already stressed.  They also brown right before they go into growth mode.  At the end of the day, they are not a palm for a pot, too much root! 

Save some of your seed and seed in place in spring if you can.  There is no comparison between potted/moved and seeded in place. You literally lose year(s) of growth not seeding in place, at least in our climate.

Edited September 28, 2022 by jwitt

[jwitt]

2 hours ago, Ltapia said:

These look really good I was there a week ago fully green . Got seeds too lol which the lady said rarely happens 

The palm zone you describe is accurate. Far enough away from the Sandias to lessen the east wind, but yet in the influence of those mountains and the snow hole. 

Those palms were fully green up til February when the 7f hit.   Some years good, some bad. 

[ChrisA]

Hello, I no longer live in Albuquerque so I cannot provide a new photo from this year.   If I get back again I’ll try to stop by and get a photo.

I’ve been calling this a Filibusta as it does have some pretty serious purple at the base of the petiole which pure filifera does not have. It looks exactly like this individual I photographed in Port Aransas, TX earlier this month. Let me know your thoughts!

 

[NBTX11]

I'm not 100 percent certain, but the palm fronds and look of crown look VERY Filifera-ish.  Which would be a great thing for ABQ.  I'm not saying it's pure, just that it's heavy Filifera and way less Robusta (if any).

[SailorBold]

Here are my filiferas....

[SailorBold]

9 hours ago, Desert DAC said:

No updates on any of the Washy palms in ABQ. Hopefully I can finally visit some this fall, before winter does its thing. But Google street view did a drive-by to the one in 7-Bar Ranch in Feb 2022. Looks like the usual winter burn of  fronds. It also looks like another Washy inside the courtyard in earlier pics has been removed... perhaps planted too close to the house?

A cool curiosity and shows the west side of the Rio Grande as the most palmy place in ABQ and central NM, but brown fronds in winter defeat the purpose of having a palm to me, though that's not as bad as having to wrap up palms like in Salt Lake, etc. So, still best T or C / Tularosa and south in a solid to high z 8.

They're just barely hardy enough..  the best bet is to have a pure filifera. Prolly Sabal mexicanas or butia and jubaea hybrids...

[SailorBold]

3 hours ago, ChrisA said:

Hello, I no longer live in Albuquerque so I cannot provide a new photo from this year.   If I get back again I’ll try to stop by and get a photo.

I’ve been calling this a Filibusta as it does have some pretty serious purple at the base of the petiole which pure filifera does not have. It looks exactly like this individual I photographed in Port Aransas, TX earlier this month. Let me know your thoughts!

 

Looks like it..

[Collectorpalms]

1 hour ago, SailorBold said:

They're just barely hardy enough..  the best bet is to have a pure filifera. Prolly Sabal mexicanas or butia and jubaea hybrids...

Sabal Palmetto Beat Filifera, and Sabal Mexicana by enough that it was a clear distinction. Butia and Jubaeas were slight disappointments. Canaries did really well, and Trachy were a mixed bag. Trachy Not the best palm for most of Texas and other areas of the SW, so I am sure that played a role in so many that died.

[Collectorpalms]

2 hours ago, SailorBold said:

Here are my filiferas....

Can I ask what are the other plants? Agave, Cactus, Evergreen?

[Las Palmas Norte]

3 hours ago, SailorBold said:

Here are my filiferas....

Those are some real beauties !!!

[ChrisA]

10 hours ago, SailorBold said:

Here are my filiferas....

Looking great my friend!  Still don’t understand how you keep Bougainvillea coming back year after year!  I lost my Barbara Karst this past winter that only had to endure 23 degrees. Cripes! Lol

This year’s struggle has been keeping plants alive with barely a drop of rain and three months of temps over 100F.

As for the palms of San Antonio, I was really unimpressed with how Chaemerops fared in the Feb 2021 arctic outbreak.  I estimated about 50% died to the ground. Canary Dates, Filiferas, Sabals, and Filibusta did pretty well, especially the sabals! Burial was also hit or miss. Robusta took a huge hit! I only see scattered robusta remaining. Queens and Pygmy dates were entirely annihilated.

[NBTX11]

1 hour ago, ChrisA said:

Looking great my friend!  Still don’t understand how you keep Bougainvillea coming back year after year!  I lost my Barbara Karst this past winter that only had to endure 23 degrees. Cripes! Lol

This year’s struggle has been keeping plants alive with barely a drop of rain and three months of temps over 100F.

As for the palms of San Antonio, I was really unimpressed with how Chaemerops fared in the Feb 2021 arctic outbreak.  I estimated about 50% died to the ground. Canary Dates, Filiferas, Sabals, and Filibusta did pretty well, especially the sabals! Burial was also hit or miss. Robusta took a huge hit! I only see scattered robusta remaining. Queens and Pygmy dates were entirely annihilated.

Spot on. Now you know what to plant for long term viability in San Antonio. Sabal palmetto took zero damage. Mexicana and Filifera were big winners. Canary dates survived in great numbers. True Robusta were mostly slaughtered although a large percentage of thin hybrids and a small percentage of pure Robusta survived. This probably wouldn’t deter me from planting Robusta. They get so tall so fast it’s worth it. 

[Ltapia]

12 hours ago, SailorBold said:

Here are my filiferas....

Is this in abq?

[MSX]

15 hours ago, SailorBold said:

They're just barely hardy enough..  the best bet is to have a pure filifera. Prolly Sabal mexicanas or butia and jubaea hybrids...

I think Sabal minor too would be an appropriate addition to the list, this is one of the most underrated hardy palms.

Edited September 29, 2022 by MSX

[jwitt]

16 hours ago, SailorBold said:

Here are my filiferas....

Fatter than a "dually"!

[Las Palmas Norte]

On 8/18/2020 at 11:23 AM, Chester B said:

That looks really good.  I have some guerilla planting to do as well, but I've been procrastinating.

Last year I joined a therapy group for procrastinators. We haven't had our first meeting yet. 😁

[Chester B]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Last year I joined a therapy group for procrastinators. We haven't had our first meeting yet. 😁

I've also been waiting for rain. It's been beyond dry here.

[Las Palmas Norte]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

I've also been waiting for rain. It's been beyond dry here.

Yup. We had a sprinkle for the first time in ages yesterday, which did absolutely nothing. It's coming though as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow.