Jealous of Europe's Weather

[SouthSeaNate]

20 hours ago, pRoeZa* said:

wow mate, you know a lot!

yup, that's the best climate in Europe. southernmost coast of Spain. Papayas thriving & fruiting, large cultivars of mango maded for exporting... I would like to live there. One question, where did you find those places at southern Crete with averages near 20ºC?

After doing a long research in many european cities/towns I found that the warmest in the NOAA period of 1981-2010 and of an official station is Seville in Spain with 19.2ºC. After that goes Almeria with 19.1ºC. After that goes the city station of Athens but the period is not 1981-2010, is more recent.

Junter you forgot about Malta buddy, Luqa has an annual mean of 19.3C (1981-2010) this is the coolest spot too, coastal areas have higher minimums so the means will be higher here. Papayas & Mangos grow here too as you know.

[Alicante]

1 minute ago, SouthSeaNate said:

Junter you forgot about Malta buddy, Luqa has an annual mean of 19.3C (1981-2010) this is the coolest spot too, coastal areas have higher minimums so the means will be higher here. Papayas & Mangos grow here too as you know.

Forgot to say I was talking about continental Europe.

But you're right! Luqa averages 19.3ºC

[Monòver]

Here i have Royals, papayas, bananas and Mango, but i do not have the best climate in Europe.

[Cluster]

You can grow those in Portugal too in a not perfect micro climate as well:P. Isn't Malta geographically out of the Eurasian tectonic plate, between the Eurasian and African one?

[Sanips]

21 minutes ago, Cluster said:

You can grow those in Portugal too in a not perfect micro climate as well:P. Isn't Malta geographically out of the Eurasian tectonic plate, between the Eurasian and African one?

It's correct, Malta is on the African plate along with other european territories such as Canary Islands, Madeira and the Azores.

[Alicante]

28 minutes ago, Cluster said:

You can grow those in Portugal too in a not perfect micro climate as well:P. Isn't Malta geographically out of the Eurasian tectonic plate, between the Eurasian and African one?

I'm not very sure if papayas would fruit on mainland Portugal, maybe on a protected garden of someone in Faro in the southern of Algarve they can do it but there occurs sporadic freezes in 10-20 years, not? But they would surely fruit on Madeira.  I didn't know that about Malta, I checked it and you're right.

I say this because on Huelva which has a 95% similar climate every 10-15 years occurs a freezing which kills many tropical plants, not very hard but under -1ºC

Edited February 1, 2017 by pRoeZa*

[Cluster]

Azores islands actually belong to Eurasia plate some belong to the African plate and the westernmost belong to American plate:P 

There are people growing Papaias in Lisbon that fruit, bananas, anonas, passion fruit, mango etc. No freezing here in the best zones. Further south in Algarve people plant these as well you will have warmer micro climates than Lisbon. It is true that faro Airport has a record low of -1, but there are better microclimates there than the Airport which will not endure freezing. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Cluster

[Cluster]

I did not want to include Madeira and Canaries as they are in the African plate:P, it is a bit cheating when both Archipelagos have record lows higher than Key West low records and even higher than Havana if I recall correctly. 

[Alicante]

16 minutes ago, Cluster said:

Azores islands actually belong to Eurasia plate and the westernmost belong to American plate:P 

There are people growing Papaias in Lisbon that fruit, bananas, anonas, passion fruit, mango etc. No freezing here in the best zones. Further south in Algarve people plant these as well you will have warmer micro climates than Lisbon. It is true that faro Airport has a record low of -1, but there are better microclimates there than the Airport which will not endure freezing. 

But have you seen Ananas and Papayas fruiting there, or seen just the trees or just readed about them? Looking at the official climate chart of IPMA in Lisboa they are only able to grow in greenhouses, as many months don't achieve enough warmth for the pineapples/ananas. In Spain they just grow in 2 places.

Ananas are even hardier to find, they just grow really big on the Canary Islands, because they need a truly semitropical climate if not tropical to thrive. 

In Cartagena, Murcia there are commercial plantations of pineapples but they're small ones maded for juices, for the famous Don Simon Spanish juice brand. The thing is also they need a lot of warmth during most months on the year , they could support a bit the cold but they would only thrive if they have enough warm. Cartagena has one of the warmest winters in Spain. Lisbon is very mild but from November to March all 5 months have maximum averages under 20ºC (and April is also just of 20.0ºC), that's why I say is kinda strange for a pineapple to grow there. Photos of the pineapple plantations in Cartagena:

http://fotos01.laopiniondemurcia.es/fotos/noticias/646x260/2011-06-11_IMG_2011-06-11_21:35:38_dmu035com001.jpg

Some photos of Mango cultivars in the south of Spain, they grow from Huelva to Almería:

http://www.laopiniondemurcia.es/comunidad/2011/06/12/tropico-empieza-murcia/329842.html

Edited February 1, 2017 by pRoeZa*

[Cluster]

Lisbon is very cosmopolitan so not many fruits are planted I read it on our meteo forums people that used to plant those. You have to see there are very few houses with private gardens here:(. Faro I have seen pictures, I don't go to Algarve for 10 years now so would not see it myself. Ananas I am not sure, I have never searched about it, I know  people in Perth were able to grow them. Azores is very famous for their commercial Ananas, but they use greenhouses, not sure they would grow without the greenhouse, maybe they would but very slowly? I took the photos of the banana and the royals though, and those tell you the true story^^.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Cluster

[Alicante]

20 minutes ago, Cluster said:

Lisbon is very cosmopolitan so not many fruits are planted I read it on our meteo forums people that used to plant those. You have to see there are very few houses with private gardens here:(. Faro I have seen pictures, I don't go to Algarve for 10 years now so would not see it myself. Ananas I am not sure, I have never searched about it, I know  people in Perth were able to grow them. Azores is very famous for their commercial Ananas, but they use greenhouses, not sure they would grow without the greenhouse, maybe they would but very slowly? I took the photos of the banana and the royals though, and those tell you the true story^^.

Yes but Perth has warmer winters than any other city on the Iberian Peninsula and they got more sunshine hours also as any other one. There is possible.

They couldn't thrive without greenhouses I also think that, in Azores happens the same very mild lows but many time with very mild high averages also.

Of course bananas and royals that's another thing, they are quite less pretentious than papayas and much less than pineapples. Bananas I've seen in the street view of A Coruña at 43ºN and they also grow in Monaco at 43ºN, I seen some also in Barcelona at 41ºN. When I was younger in my school near Valencia at about 39ºN we had some banana trees and when the tree gave fruits every year we used to throw them to each others. But that's was just a couple of years. The teachers seen what we were doing and other years they directly cut it when the trees started to fruit. Good days 

Also here many people is changing the orange cultivars for avocados, as they're much more expensive to sell. Bananas here I can find in many gardens, and also in many rural houses between cultivars, I've seen many yellow mature bananas here but not as big as the ones from the Canary Islands.

Royals here grow up in Bétera at 39º 35'N inland at about 20-22km from the coast (I posted a photo in the last page). Although it was one Royal on Cambrils, Tarragona at 41ºNI maded a thread 2 years ago: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/47459-northernmost-southernmost-royal-palm-roystonea-regia-where-is-located/ it wasn't looking very good, the photo was also maded after a cold winter but it's impressive for it's latitude.

Those are Musa Basjoo banana plants from Vancouver, Canada:

Edited February 1, 2017 by pRoeZa*

[SouthSeaNate]

51 minutes ago, Cluster said:

You can grow those in Portugal too in a not perfect micro climate as well:P. Isn't Malta geographically out of the Eurasian tectonic plate, between the Eurasian and African one?

Malta lies at the edge of the African plate on the border with the Eurasian plate, but it is still part of Europe unlike the Canary Islands for example as the continents were defined when there was no knowledge of the tectonic plates & the boundaries were drawn from geographical proximity & cultural & historical reasons.

The Italian Islands of Pantelleria & Linosa are considered part of Europe, while Lampedusa & Lampione part of Africa & Cyprus is part of Asia though politically within the European Union. Some of the Greek Islands, Rhodes, Samos, Chios & Kastellorizo are technically within Asia too.

[Cluster]

I do not know if papaia is actually harder to grow than a Royal, I say this because doing a quick search on google I see some people planting them and getting fruits. Some do say that cooler winters will make them look worse but when the heat comes they grow out of it and fruit. But not knowing about any specific details of the places I can only say on the forums, I have read about Lisbon Papaias and Algarve Papaias, will let you know if I find anything about Ananas.

I believe some type of bananas might be hardier to cold, but the type of banana we like to eat is tender, won't grow in Vancouver for sure, not outside.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Cluster

[Alicante]

14 minutes ago, Cluster said:

I do not know if papaia is actually harder to grow than a Royal, I say this because doing a quick search on google I see some people planting them and getting fruits. Some do say that cooler winters will make them look worse but when the heat comes they grow out of it and fruit. But not knowing about any specific details of the places I can only say on the forums, I have read about Lisbon Papaias and Algarve Papaias, will let you know if I find anything about Ananas.

I believe some type of bananas might be hardier to cold, but the type of banana we like to eat is tender, won't grow in Vancouver for sure, not outside.

Actually there exists 2 type of Papayas, the mountain papaya / paw paw and the real papaya, they're very similar and most of people don't distinguish them.

Also both produce very similar fruits, it's hard to distinguish. Someone has told me about this, before I didn't know before that they were different plants.

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by pRoeZa*

[Cluster]

I found these in a German thread, they are supposedly around Faro:

 

 

[Cluster]

Also close to Lisbon area (just south of tagus river side):

Edited February 1, 2017 by Cluster

[Alicante]

1 hour ago, Cluster said:

I found these in a German thread, they are supposedly around Faro:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Cluster said:

Also close to Lisbon area (just south of tagus river side):

Cool, like I said a few posts ago in Algarve is possible, as they also grow on Elche, Alicante and near Valencia at close to 39N so why wouldn't they grow there! Those ones from Lisboa seem quite burned tho, but it's fruiting so it's ok, as long as it would not freeze. Some huge papayas from Almuñecar:

And look at the size of this Howea in Málaga gardens. It can be the biggest in continental Europe? Anyone knows any bigger? 

lol is as big as the Phoenix Canariensis! it's kinda similar to a coconut too 

Edited February 1, 2017 by pRoeZa*

[Sanips]

@pRoeZa* This one in Coruña is pretty tall as well

Talking about pineapples, I think in your climates could be planted Ananas bracteatus and it variety 'tricolor' as a nice ornamental plant

Edited February 2, 2017 by Sanips

[Alicante]

2 hours ago, Sanips said:

@pRoeZa* This one in Coruña is pretty tall as well

Talking about pineapples, I think in your climates could be planted Ananas bracteatus and it variety 'tricolor' as a nice ornamental plant

wow that Howea is huge & awesome, it's really enjoying the climate of Coruña

About those red pineapples I've found this: http://theworldwidevegetables.weebly.com/ananas-bracteatus-red-pineapple.html

Yes, definetly, they would be even able to grow in Barcelona at 41N or Coruña at 43N, as they can grow in the oceanic north of NZ, needs maximum  temperatures in the coldest month bigger than 14ºC and they can support even low to -6ºC. Wow, that breed of ananas is really hardy and requires a very little!

Edited February 2, 2017 by pRoeZa*

[Sanips]

That Howea is awesome. I wonder why aren't been planted more like this or nikaus.

Yes, that's the reason  why I recomend that species. The problem is to find where buy it.

[Monòver]

50 minutes ago, Sanips said:

 

Yes, that's the reason  why I recomend that species. The problem is to find where buy it.

The problem is not to find it, the problem is pay it. In Spain, big howeas are easy to find, but expensive.

[Sanips]

35 minutes ago, Monòver said:

The problem is not to find it, the problem is pay it. In Spain, big howeas are easy to find, but expensive.

Sorry, I was talking about the pineapple lol. But I agree, Howeas are expensive even the non-trunking ones.

[Monòver]

1 hour ago, Sanips said:

Sorry, I was talking about the pineapple lol. But I agree, Howeas are expensive even the non-trunking ones.

ups!!!!