Mule ID (Mercer Gardens In Houston)

[meteorologistpalmguy]

So at the local arboretum (Mercer) here in Houston, amidst the palm gardens they have what is very clearly a mature mule palm. Given the diameter of the trunk (at least two feet wide), and the heels left behind, I am assuming this is a Jubaea x Butia mule palm, but it is one of the very few trees not labelled within the garden. Now what is more interesting is I was able to snag a three germinating seeds below this tree before garden help was just about to "clean them up". I have been growing them in 1 gallon pots for the past year but have been very slow, but moving along. I am guessing they will likely be (JxB)xS given the number of Queens in the nearby vicinity, but could be F2 from this tree. Most of the seeds on the ground were clearly not viable. So what is everyone's thought here on what this tree is... is it indeed a very mature JxB?

Also of note, this palm sailed through the winter before last with three ice storms and an ultimate low of 19 degrees with no damage, and also does not seem bothered by humidity nor the very heavy rain we have had as of late.

[ErikSJI]

Looks like a regular Mule palm to me. Why are you thinking it has Jubaea in it?

[DoomsDave]

How about a full monty shot of the crown, and closeups of the leaves, especially the tips of the pinnae?

[ErikSJI]

There are a lot of Fat Mule palms out there. Check out the one on the left. It is going to be a monster.

[meteorologistpalmguy]

Main reason I thought this to be the JXB is because of the thickness of the trunk, and how closely it seemed to match the look of this (another JXB from a different thread):

Also recall seeing a very old forum post (not from Palmtalk) but back in the early 2000's about a JXB being planted at Mercer. I am trying to see if that forum even still exists. Let me see if I have a full shot of this palm... been a while since I have been there, it is probably 30 feet tall so difficult to get any kind of a closeup of the crown. Appreciate the feedback!

[meteorologistpalmguy]

Here is the full shot. I suppose the feather-like-ness (I have decided that is a word) of the fronds does smell of more S than J. Just really have not see any mature mules anywhere around here besides at Mercer. Contrast blasted out as this was a poor iPhone shot from a year or two ago.

[Ben in Norcal]

Looks like a regular mule to me.

[meteorologistpalmguy]

Thanks for the input folks. I guess I got too carried away with the surprisingly thick trunk on this puppy. After looking at that crown more it definitely seems to be lacking the rigidity of Jubaea. Regardless, it is a beauty. Wish we would see more mules around Houston. Erik, you need to flood the big box stores here! Then again, mine will seem less impressive once that happens. :-)

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

+1 on a mule. The 4-5 mature JxB's that I have seen have a 3-4.5' diameter trunk. If you keep an eye out you will notice in Houston that about half of the pindo's have extremely thick trunks (mostly ones in people yards, probably purchased from a nursery or box store, not the ones planted on 45 & 10 area) which appear to be pure Odorata as they have spherical seeds and the correct inflorescence to go along with the 3' diameter trunk. Whereas in Galveston and the rest of Texas they have the thinner catarinensis trunks. This mule could have the thicker Odorata as a mother.

[DoomsDave]

Beau, try if you can, to get a picture of the ends of the leaflets. While that appears to be a tall order (no pun intended) that's critical diagnostic of Jube ancestry. Jube hybrids have "folded" tips on the leaves. (I have two that do.)

A telephoto lens will come in handy.

On the other hand, some mules with butea blood are monsters, too. They also take the cold and humidity well.

Either way, the mules in your pictures are magnifique.

(If you can, find a way to send some of that rain out here! )

[Alicehunter2000]

Yes...great looking palm regardless of what it turns out to be....would be cool if indeed back crossed with a queen

[Ben in Norcal]

Dave, Patric Schafer says those hooks aren't a great indicator of a Jubea hybrid. Sometimes they show, sometimes they don't.

[sarasota alex]

That is a regular mule (xButyagrus nabonnandii). There is also a Butia odorata x Parajubaea cocoides hybrid growing at Mercer, but it's much smaller.

[edbrown_III]

We have some in Jax that tend towards the Butia trait --- this might be what your seeing ---- these might be a bit more fertile --- I got one that s sorta Butia like but ones at Florida State College Jacksonville have very heavy Butia characteristics -- yet arent Butias--- this might be just variation between the parents ===

Best regards

Ed

[Laaz]

It also looks like it produces some viable seed...

[Joe NC]

I manged to squeeze in 30 minutes of crazy running around at Mercer Gardens yesterday in the rain before I had to get to the airport, and end a quick weekend trip to Houston.  The gardens were really nice, and I wished I had more time to spend checking out the palmy parts (that they seem to be currently expanding).  I did manage to pick up a handful of fruit that had dropped from this mule.  The fruit was mostly green, but a few of the largest had decent sized black seeds in them.  I don't have high hopes, but I would guess if they do germinate it is probable that they would be (BxS)xS, as the taller queen that is growing next to this mule is likely providing plenty of pollen.   

[Josh-O]

it will most likely revert back to the mother palm if they ever sprout.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Cut one open to see if it is just a solid shell. One of the mules on the Riverwalk produces full size seed every year but are always solid.

[Joe NC]

Had about a dozen seeds, most were the size above but one was much fatter and larger.  I started cutting open the smaller seeds and they were solid shell...  I held out on cutting open the larger seed as that is now the only one I have hope for.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Thar one may be viable. I crossed a butia with jubaea pollen early this year and had three large seeds with an embryo and 100 smaller duds. It seems that the larger ones tend to be viable.

[meteorologistpalmguy]

I can confirm this tree produces viable seeds.  Have some 1.5 year old seedlings growing that I acquired from underneath that very tree.  Still too early to say whether they are f2 or back crossed with the nearby queens, but I would bet the latter.

[Moose]

Yes...great looking palm regardless of what it turns out to be....would be cool if indeed back crossed with a queen

Gotta concur with David?

[_Keith]

Good looking Mule.   As hybrids they can vary in look even in the same seed batch, and especially in different seed batches.