Butia planting in zone 8

[Kai]

I came across a nice sized Butia capitata (I think). There was no name tag and the gardencentres personel had no idea. But for only 25 euro's, I didn't think twice and took it home.

I put it in the ground in my garden and it looks great. After the first day in the ground and it has even grown a bit...

I know I will have to do something about cold protection coming winter, but for now temperatures seem to be perfect for some good rooting and acclimatizing. Hopefully summer lasts some good months to come. The more time it gets before winter gets here, the better its chances are.

My garden is in Amsterdam which appears to have a bit of a microclimate, so I might do even a little better than zone 8, but not much.

Any advice on winter protection is greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Kai

[NorthFlpalmguy]

Nice find! You should be fine in zone 8 without any protection.

[maesy]

Beware our prolonged freezes here in Europe. The lows may not be a problem in Amsterdam, but the duration of the freeze and a long lasting cold without a warm up in between for sure is without protection.

Marcel

[Kai]

Hey bbrantly,

I'm not entirely sure about that. The USDA zones seem to be established upon winter lows, but I believe the duration of winters has not been taken into account. Also Dutch winters are usually very wet, so I will put some effort into keeping the palm and the surrounding soil as dry as possible during winter.

I'm lucky with with very well draining soil in my garden as opposed to most parts of Holland which are troubled with thick wet clay.

I might just put a small tent around the palm when it gets below freezing.

[NorthFlpalmguy]

Hey bbrantly,

I'm not entirely sure about that. The USDA zones seem to be established upon winter lows, but I believe the duration of winters has not been taken into account. Also Dutch winters are usually very wet, so I will put some effort into keeping the palm and the surrounding soil as dry as possible during winter.

I'm lucky with with very well draining soil in my garden as opposed to most parts of Holland which are troubled with thick wet clay.

I might just put a small tent around the palm when it gets below freezing.

Ours are not long in duration but can be wet as well. I have had about 2-5,000 Butia capitata over the past 10 winters in different soil conditions or containers without protection and very few ever show winter damage but all my stock is from local Butias. I leave all my seedlings purposely outside without cover just in case the hardening theory is true to weed out the weaker ones.

I am having customers planting these around 7b's in the Atlanta,Ga area telling me they aren't seeing much cold damage under light canopy as well. Now whether that lasts long-term or not we will see.

[Alicehunter2000]

Probably still not a bad idea to protect the first few years...once acclimated to your conditions, it should do well. Doesn't Washington DC even have some Butia odorata? .....where did I here that? Here? PT?

[Kai]

So every week I put a little dot on the growing point to monitor it's growth.

Two weeks have passed since planting it out and it looks like it's doing its thing...

[Explorer]

Many people have tried to grow Butia odorata in The Netherlands. But most did loose them after recent cold winters a couple of years ago. Only with good winter protection and artificial heating it will survive a cold winter. Maybe its a zone 8 palm. But lots of so called zone 8 plants are in the long term not really coldhardy here is my experience. The Netherlands have much more a zone 7 climate if you take into account the coldhardiness. Trachycarpus fortunei is an example of a palm wich can survive well here in the Low Countries. Well at least in the milder parts.

In London they have good Butia odorata in some gardens. But overthere winters never get as cold as downhere. When we get -10 C in Londo it gets barely below -6 C. And it gets above zero much qiucker! Overthere they have more a zone 8 climate.

Alexander

[Omeyer72]

I live in Zone 6A/6B , Kai, and I use the same protection for my Butia, Trachy's ( one is well over 11 feet), and they've pulled through -19F temps and prolonged periods well below freezing.

You may be able to see the 4 galvanized posts sticking up around the base of my Butia in the pic. I place 4 upright pieces of PVC pipe on these and attach them to a rectangular PVC "box" on top, built from short pieces of PVC and plumbing elbows. I place basic light strands around the base and plug them into a receptacle ( made for livestock/farming purposes) that powers the lights at around 26F and turn off at around 34F. When cold weather or freezing precipitation are forecasted, I simply bunch up the leaves and place Heavy sleeping bags over the structure, and zip it up...wish I had pics. Perhaps something more attractive can be placed over the bags if that's an aesthetic concern, but I've found this to be very effective and quick to install or remove depending upon the weather.

[Explorer]

Its offcourse possible to grow palms like Butias in areas with much colder winter. But you need to built a sort of polytunnel every winter with sufficient heating to enable them to survive the winter. In my area Trachycarpus fortunei and Chamerops do not really need that. Well Chamaerops needs to be grown at a warm sunny wall. Planted against the house so it gets some warmth during a frosty coldspell. Chamaerops hummilis was my very first palm planted outside. And it does not need hot summers to grow well. If I wanted to plant Butia outside however I would plant them in a special border with other tender plants and protect them during winter with a polytunnel. But its a lot of work twice a year, built it up in the autumn and remove it in spring. All that hassle is not really my cup of tea...

Alexander

[Kai]

Hi Alexander,

The hassle is my cup of tea if it would mean I can keep a Butia in my garden. As you might know, many people in the Netherlands have succeeded with some extra effort and when it comes to location, I don't think I'm at a disadvantage. I'm just following an already paved way.

I have some Trachycarpus and Chamaerops in my garden too, they just grow and need no winter protection, the same as you. The Butia will be neatly guided through winter with proper protection.

[Alicehunter2000]

Would a Jub be more suited to your climate?

[smithgn]

omeyer, that's an awesome looking Butia. Nearly flawless!

[Howeadypsis]

So every week I put a little dot on the growing point to monitor it's growth.

20150720_0740251.jpg

Two weeks have passed since planting it out and it looks like it's doing its thing...

Wow that is fast growing!

You say you're zone 8? I'm zone 9, and like you our winters tend to be very wet.

[Omeyer72]

Thank you, Smith! Waiting for the bent lowers to senesce before giving a proper pruning. Have a feeling Kai's Zone 8 will produce something even better and looking forward to the results.

[Kai]

Yes Larry, I was also surprised about its speed of growth. Even right after planting I would have expected it to slow down and invest more of its recources in its root system.

I hope it has healthy roots and settled well for the upcoming winter.

I think your climate is about the same as wat we have here (long wet and cold winters).

[Howeadypsis]

Yes Larry, I was also surprised about its speed of growth. Even right after planting I would have expected it to slow down and invest more of its recources in its root system.

I hope it has healthy roots and settled well for the upcoming winter.

I think your climate is about the same as wat we have here (long wet and cold winters).

Yes, it's the wet that does the damage. By the way, do you have pics of Verschaffeltia splendida on here? I saw the sapling on your Facebook page.

[Kai]

[Pal Meir]

By the way, do you have pics of Verschaffeltia splendida on here? I saw the sapling on your Facebook page.

Well, that one sure doesn't belong in the cold-hardy section LOL!

I don't have any recent pictures of my Verschaffeltia here on pt. It's just recovering from some kind of infestation (treated it with hydrogen peroxide 3%) and doesn't look its best. But it still grows and and has become too big for the window sil. I will upload a picture soon, I'm still amazed at how well it does as a living room plant (dry air and all).

[Kai]

Hi Pal,

Thank you for your reaction. Always very informative!

The only thing that was bothering the plant was some kind of bug eating away at the still unopened spears. I think I killed it now (the bug) and growth continues at a steady pace. Leafs emerging look healthier every time. So I will not repot it in the near future, its doing just fine in its current pot.

[Pal Meir]

Spraying diluted (second) brew of coffee works very well against mites and bugs.

[Howeadypsis]

Coffee, really?

[Pal Meir]

Coffee, really?

Yea! The first (not diluted) brew you drink yourself. And the second diluted brew is so horrible that even mites, bugs & Co don’t like it.

[Howeadypsis]

I drink instant mostly

[Pal Meir]

I drink instant mostly

Oh? So maybe also the first (and only) brew will kill all the beasts

[Howeadypsis]

Lol

[Kai]

Yes I use used coffee grinds all the time in my garden. Works wonders against any pests, even snails. Many people don't realize the wonders coffee can do, appart from keeping you awake at work

[climate change virginia]

On 7/8/2015 at 12:51 PM, Alicehunter2000 said:

Probably still not a bad idea to protect the first few years...once acclimated to your conditions, it should do well. Doesn't Washington DC even have some Butia odorata? .....where did I here that? Here? PT?

People have tried but there is a 100% failure rate they always die its not because how low it gets.most years it only gets down to 15f. Its the freak winters and the the prolonged cold that gets them. They live to about 5 years (7-10 if your lucky) then croak from a bad winter.

Edited February 5, 2022 by climate change virginia

[NWpalms@206]

On 7/7/2015 at 11:35 AM, Kai said:

I came across a nice sized Butia capitata (I think). There was no name tag and the gardencentres personel had no idea. But for only 25 euro's, I didn't think twice and took it home.

I put it in the ground in my garden and it looks great. After the first day in the ground and it has even grown a bit...

I know I will have to do something about cold protection coming winter, but for now temperatures seem to be perfect for some good rooting and acclimatizing. Hopefully summer lasts some good months to come. The more time it gets before winter gets here, the better its chances are.

My garden is in Amsterdam which appears to have a bit of a microclimate, so I might do even a little better than zone 8, but not much.

Any advice on winter protection is greatly appreciated!

 

Cheers,

 

Kai

That trunk looks pretty BxJ to me, might have an ever better find than you think. 

[Hortulanus]

Hey! This is my first post in this forum. Even though I've been following what's going on here for years.

I'm quite well experienced in planting palm trees here in Düsseldorf, Germany (not too far from the Netherlands) and I just got my hands on a younger Butia odorata (former capitata).
While I know my climate and that of my surrondings quite well I suggest to try! When I first started out with palm trees, people would tell me I couldn't even keep a Chamaerops long term outside. Which turned out to be b.s. ... But it's not just the lack of knowledge from people but also quality, size and foremost the MICROCLIMATE that counts. When I look at a European USDA zones map I see my city in 8a (together with most of the Netherlands). I would place my area in general more like into 8b and within the most inner city microclimates of Düsseldorf into 9a!
This can vary so extremly much even within the city, that you can't make predictions about plants that have potential to grow here from literature.

As I observe weather conditions over the years, the Netherlands get actually frost more often than here, especially in rural areas. Plus winters here a considered to be wet, but NL has definitely more rain and humidity. Southern England has very wet winters but frost is rare and also not that extreme. And all of these areas are shown on maps somewhere between 7b and 9a.
Then you have summers... The UK gets usually cool and wet winters, as do the Netherlands but a bit less and here in the Rhineland area of Western Germany also quite wet but even less and warmer with way more hot days than England for example.
If you're not bored yet let me now tell you about climate change! All of these places get hotter and drier summers and in general warmer winter BUT with more frequent cold spells (instable polar vortex). So much so that I notice huge differences in growth and possibilities just in my 10-15 years of planting alone.
For exampIe I now have growing Sabal uresana, Washingtonia x filibusta and Washingtonia filifera without any protection (next to fence) in full sun for years without any issues. During the cold spell in Feb 2021 Sabal uresana and Washingtonia x filibusta lost their leaves but recovered very fast and we had a bad spring and quite cool and rainy summer for the most part!
Oh and the filifera is seed grown and this also seems to make a difference in hardiness and adaptation...

My point is: It's always worth a try and you should get experienced in your own climate step by step. Start with good protection and then lessen it gradually. Plant loss can be very sad but also a lesson and it makes room for new experiments!

Best regards
Hortulanus!