avoiding frost by planting canopy trees

[Matthew92]

2 hours ago, Alan_Tampa said:

No way on mid twenties being fine. Recover yes, being fine no way. I have 3 in the yard and my mom has two. 30 is total leaf drop and small limb damage,  less that is like 2 inch diameter branch damage. 

 

34 seems fine for the tree. Mine is rather large now,  and that probably helps.

There's a guy on here @Alicehunter2000 in the Western Fl Panhandle near the beach who has/had an Ice Cream bean. From what I remember him reporting is that it would die back some with temps in the 20's but was hardy enough to grow back from the main stems each year. 

Edited January 16, 2024 by Matthew92

[Silas_Sancona]

3 hours ago, Matthew92 said:

There's a guy on here @Alicehunter2000 in the Western Fl Panhandle near the beach who has/had an Ice Cream bean. From what I remember him reporting is that it would die back some with temps in the 20's but was hardy enough to grow back from the main stems each year. 

Also recall him mentioning it in the past.   Wonder how he ..and his garden.. are doing..

Can't comment on exact hardiness of specimens on this coast, or which sps are being grown out here now, but they've been fairly popular among the S. Cal / CA. Rare Fruit Growers for -at least?? a decade ( ..or more )

Some big specimens at both the SD Zoo ( San Diego location, i believe )..  SD Botanical ( seed like crazy there apparently ) and at Fullerton.  Pretty sure a few folks further north ( Central Valley / San Jose / Santa Cruz ) have been trialing one ..or a couple.. of the species also,  so they have some deg. of hardiness it seems.. Here in AZ at least, remember that just because the air temp might drop to / just below 32F doesn't always mean stuff starts getting burned.

More often than not, Low humidity here means we can go -at least- a couple deg. lower before stuff starts experiencing cold - related damage. By the same token, that dry air can = crispy fried foliage, esp. for tender- leaved stuff,  once the heat cranks.

A trio spotted near the 110 in South L.A.  March of '22 capture. Figure I.  edulis, but can't be certain. Lots-a' fruit forming on them though.

[RFun]

On 1/15/2024 at 11:20 AM, Than said:

I think he means Italian pine tree

No, Italian Cypress as canopy.  You would just plant a smaller tree in the midst of the Italian Cypress.  Italian Cypress can get quite tall and they branch out enough to qualify as a canopy in this situation.  To create a canopy effect, you just have to have some elements being blocked out.  Doesn't have to be complete overhead protection by any means.

Edited January 17, 2024 by RFun

[Than]

On 1/16/2024 at 7:02 AM, Silas_Sancona said:

Also recall him mentioning it in the past.   Wonder how he ..and his garden.. are doing..

Can't comment on exact hardiness of specimens on this coast, or which sps are being grown out here now, but they've been fairly popular among the S. Cal / CA. Rare Fruit Growers for -at least?? a decade ( ..or more )

Some big specimens at both the SD Zoo ( San Diego location, i believe )..  SD Botanical ( seed like crazy there apparently ) and at Fullerton.  Pretty sure a few folks further north ( Central Valley / San Jose / Santa Cruz ) have been trialing one ..or a couple.. of the species also,  so they have some deg. of hardiness it seems.. Here in AZ at least, remember that just because the air temp might drop to / just below 32F doesn't always mean stuff starts getting burned.

More often than not, Low humidity here means we can go -at least- a couple deg. lower before stuff starts experiencing cold - related damage. By the same token, that dry air can = crispy fried foliage, esp. for tender- leaved stuff,  once the heat cranks.

A trio spotted near the 110 in South L.A.  March of '22 capture. Figure I.  edulis, but can't be certain. Lots-a' fruit forming on them though.

That's exactly the looks I am searching for my garden's evergreen tree! Big lush leaves! But for some reason God/nature decided to make all those trees tropical and frost sensitive! OK except for Magnolia which is in almost all gardens here,. 🤪

I'll def try Inga in my garden even if chances are slim. I'll also plant Castanospermum even though it has massive roots. Perhaps with a root barrier on the house's side. 

[Silas_Sancona]

30 minutes ago, Than said:

That's exactly the looks I am searching for my garden's evergreen tree! Big lush leaves! But for some reason God/nature decided to make all those trees tropical and frost sensitive! OK except for Magnolia which is in almost all gardens here,. 🤪

I'll def try Inga in my garden even if chances are slim. I'll also plant Castanospermum even though it has massive roots. Perhaps with a root barrier on the house's side. 

Keep in mind that frost tolerance will increase as a tree ..any plant really.. gains size / age..  A small Ice Cream Bean ..or hardy Trumpet Tree.. will be much more susceptible to cold related damage as a skinny,  two foot tall sapling, rather than a 20ft tall mature -er tree that has been in the ground for several years and has several inches of wood.. 

Eyh, 🤷‍♂️ When you live outside the zone 12+ areas of the world, frost / occasional light freezes can happen.  Don't spend much time worrying about it. What happens, happens..  Doesn't cut down on what i'd grow either.. Same with a tree / other plant being deciduous or evergreen..  I enjoy seasonality rather than the monotony of everything looking the same, all the time, all year ( everything in the garden being deciduous or evergreen ) ..widest amount of diversity i can incorporate into my yard is king for me.

As long as something that peaks my interest handles extreme heat / 3-8 months of drought-y conditions, i'll give it a look. ..Starting with all the potential options out there within my hemisphere since the insects / fungi, ..or near-er relatives of...etc  that would keep any escapees off my plants in check likely exists where i'm at,  even if the plant i'm growing originates in S. Mexico, or even Brazil ..though that can be a stretch in some cases..

On the other hand, Outside of a small area or two tucked within my overall landscape, trying to emulate the wet tropics look, -across a majority of my planting space in a water deficient part of the world-  = irresponsible.  One can have a garden that is quite lush, and full of big -leaved things in the summer,  but extremely drought tolerant -overall- ..and quite unique to their area  if they do their homework. 

Some of the slightly more tender things i may grow might get burned / beat up occasionally,  but ..that's just part of nature..  Roll with it, rather than think one can outsmart it ..

[Than]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Keep in mind that frost tolerance will increase as a tree ..any plant really.. gains size / age..  A small Ice Cream Bean ..or hardy Trumpet Tree.. will be much more susceptible to cold related damage as a skinny,  two foot tall sapling, rather than a 20ft tall mature -er tree that has been in the ground for several years and has several inches of wood.. 

Eyh, 🤷‍♂️ When you live outside the zone 12+ areas of the world, frost / occasional light freezes can happen.  Don't spend much time worrying about it. What happens, happens..  Doesn't cut down on what i'd grow either.. Same with a tree / other plant being deciduous or evergreen..  I enjoy seasonality rather than the monotony of everything looking the same, all the time, all year ( everything in the garden being deciduous or evergreen ) ..widest amount of diversity i can incorporate into my yard is king for me.

As long as something that peaks my interest handles extreme heat / 3-8 months of drought-y conditions, i'll give it a look. ..Starting with all the potential options out there within my hemisphere since the insects / fungi, ..or near-er relatives of...etc  that would keep any escapees off my plants in check likely exists where i'm at,  even if the plant i'm growing originates in S. Mexico, or even Brazil ..though that can be a stretch in some cases..

On the other hand, Outside of a small area or two tucked within my overall landscape, trying to emulate the wet tropics look, -across a majority of my planting space in a water deficient part of the world-  = irresponsible.  One can have a garden that is quite lush, and full of big -leaved things in the summer,  but extremely drought tolerant -overall- ..and quite unique to their area  if they do their homework. 

Some of the slightly more tender things i may grow might get burned / beat up occasionally,  but ..that's just part of nature..  Roll with it, rather than think one can outsmart it ..

Wise words. I agree. I only want to try to emulate a lush tropical forest because my piece of land is tiny. We are talking about a table with a couple of chairs surrounded by leaves. If it were bigger I wouldn't even try. The water bill would be crashing.

I agree with you that there is no reason to overthink our planting options. I don't overthink about what to plant; I will plant lots of stuff, sensitive or not and if they survive fine, if not, it's OK. BUT, I stress about the main canopy tree, because that's what will protect everything else. If the main tree fails during a cold snap and loses its leaves or dies, then I may lose everything else that was planted around it. Once I am done with establishing a reliable canopy then I will just experiment with whatever draws my attention.

Anyway I think I have made my mind for the canopy more or less: Inga, Castanospermum, Syzygium jambos, Radermachera sinica, some Acacia (implexa is a beauty), Schizolobium,  Alloxylon flammeum (if I can source one), and if everything else fails, carob. 

[Than]

Has anyone tried Castanopsis sieboldii or Eriobotrya deflexa (bronze loquat) for evergreen canopy? They both seem charming species.