Cold Hardy Madagascar Palms

[Alicehunter2000]

I was wondering if there are any other palms and plants from Madagascar that would be worth trying in Zone 8b through 9b?

Bismarkia is turning out to be a great (albeit marginal) palm for 9a. Dypsis decipiens shows a lot of promise as well. Any thoughts?

Does anyone have a good climate map (zone map) for Madagascar? Do they experience freezing temps anywhere on the island?

[NorthFlpalmguy]

^{I have been thinking of trying Beccariophoenix alfredii here myelf! Reports of it being hardy to mid 20s which is possible here.}

Edited December 2, 2014 by bbrantley

[Alicehunter2000]

Yes, a buddy of mine picked one up for me. The guy over in Crawfordville.

Here is the bizzy in front of my house....it shrugged off the 25 degree with frost temps we had a few weeks ago

[NorthFlpalmguy]

NICE. Does it stop traffic in your area?

[Alicehunter2000]

LOL....no, but increasingly the neighbors are starting to comment on it.

[yeye]

What do you think about Ravenea xerophila ?

[JMBreland]

Nice Bizzie!

[Alicehunter2000]

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/3163-ravenea-xerophila/

According to those folks over at PalmTalk you might be on to something....

[Ken Johnson]

Yes, a buddy of mine picked one up for me. The guy over in Crawfordville.

Here is the bizzy in front of my house....it shrugged off the 25 degree with frost temps we had a few weeks ago 20141127_131853.jpg

Daaaaang that thing is looking good. Hows the one at the office?

[Alicehunter2000]

Hey Ken, was still at the office so went out and snapped a pic. Looking really red/purple ...going to be a beauty. This thing has been exposed to drought and below freezing temps on many occasions. I covered other with a plastic trash can during the vortex....otherwise it has been on its own.

[DoomsDave]

B. alfredii took 25 F one night at my place in California. No damage, and that's good.

However, it gets cold differently in No-Flo, so be careful out there. That said, try some, and let's see what happens.

We'll be watching.

[Zeeth]

Yes, a buddy of mine picked one up for me. The guy over in Crawfordville.

Here is the bizzy in front of my house....it shrugged off the 25 degree with frost temps we had a few weeks ago 20141127_131853.jpg

Brr! 25 with frost in November!

[Zeeth]

20141202_163631.jpg

Hey Ken, was still at the office so went out and snapped a pic. Looking really red/purple ...going to be a beauty. This thing has been exposed to drought and below freezing temps on many occasions. I covered other with a plastic trash can during the vortex....otherwise it has been on its own.

Bismarckia is probably one of the most Florida adapted palms to come from another area ever.

[smithgn]

Talked to a guy at JungleMusic a few weeks ago and he recommended a Ravanea Glauca due to its relatively small size (able to be protected) and its ability to take on a multitude of extremes. Zone 8a or b is impossible unless you protect it like I plan on doing, but zone 9 should seem doable? There's some good info on palmpedia talking about how tough this palm is due to its native variances in temperature, wet and dryness and of course frost.

Edited December 3, 2014 by smithgn

[Kailua_Krish]

Ive had 3 plants of B. alfredii in ground for approx 3 years now. They're all planted under high shade. While we haven't seen any severe cold during that time in Central Florida I can't say Ive had any problems with these palms. They grow at a relatively good pace (though slower than what Ive heard they grow in the sun).

P.S. I also have Bismarkia and D. decipiens in ground for approx 5 years I think, no problems though there was a wide variety of hardiness in the bismarkia, the best were ones I germinated in situ rather than ones I bought and planted

Edited December 3, 2014 by krishnaraoji88

[Josh-O]

I think B. Alfredii would be a good pick IMO. that is a tough little bugga of a plam

[Zeeth]

Ive had 3 plants of B. alfredii in ground for approx 3 years now. They're all planted under high shade. While we haven't seen any severe cold during that time in Central Florida I can't say Ive had any problems with these palms. They grow at a relatively good pace (though slower than what Ive heard they grow in the sun).

P.S. I also have Bismarkia and D. decipiens in ground for approx 5 years I think, no problems though there was a wide variety of hardiness in the bismarkia, the best were ones I germinated in situ rather than ones I bought and planted

They definitely grow much faster in full sun. The one at the USF botanical garden is doing well, albeit slower than the ones in my garden in full sun. Here's some pics from today, one of which has my bike for scale.

[Tropicdoc]

2 alfies are going in the ground here in the spring at my new house. They will stay in the greenhouse this winter. They will be at the edge of live oak canopy and I will protect them until no longer feasible. Might have to get a Bizzie, too! Maybe Ravenea glauca now that you bring it up!

[Alicehunter2000]

Just Google Mapped Houma, LA .............Dude your way down below New Orleans and well below Keith...almost in the swamps....You should be warmer than me for sure.....get a big pile of sand and plant Bizzies all day long there.

Ya'll just about talked me into trying glauca and xerophila too..........got an alfredii on order. Got to make it through the winter first

[Tropicdoc]

Warmer than you just depends on how the jet stream bends. Seems like you got colder than me this last November go around, but last winter the vortex dipped down right over Louisiana! And actually New Orleans has about a 3 degree advantage over me because of how it sits South of Lake Pontchartrain. The lake stays in the 60s, tempering North Wind advective freezes.

All that being said, my new place with canopy will open up a whole new world of gardening for me. I'm excited. After moving in, I'm gonna start a thread with some pics of the blank canvas.

[tank]

As many folks have attested, silver Bismarks can handle cold pretty well. Frost will torch it though, especially under 25F. I'll post a picture of my plant this weekend that survived my polar vortex in 2010. Temps down to the mid to upper teens. It is planted in some moderately dense high pine canopy and did not see any significant damage. This area of the yard never gets frost. Only drawback is that it grows so much SLOWER in the shade. Still keeps it's color though.

I have serious doubts that B. Alfredii or either of the Raveneas are going to fare better than the plants that got whacked a Dave's house during last years cold spell.

[smithgn]

Just Google Mapped Houma, LA .............Dude your way down below New Orleans and well below Keith...almost in the swamps....You should be warmer than me for sure.....get a big pile of sand and plant Bizzies all day long there.

Ya'll just about talked me into trying glauca and xerophila too..........got an alfredii on order. Got to make it through the winter first

It's pretty neat how far south Louisiana extends. How big of a glauca and xerophila are you going to get? I've got a band size on the way.

Warmer than you just depends on how the jet stream bends. Seems like you got colder than me this last November go around, but last winter the vortex dipped down right over Louisiana! And actually New Orleans has about a 3 degree advantage over me because of how it sits South of Lake Pontchartrain. The lake stays in the 60s, tempering North Wind advective freezes.

All that being said, my new place with canopy will open up a whole new world of gardening for me. I'm excited. After moving in, I'm gonna start a thread with some pics of the blank canvas.

If there was any semblance of a mountain range shielding Louisiana from those northern winds, then Louisiana would be as tropical as south Florida IMO.

[Tropicdoc]

If you follow the Mississippi River down to Venice by car, you are basically in the middle of the gulf and you are pretty solid 9b. Grand isle would be 9b as well.

[Mandrew968]

20141202_163631.jpg

Hey Ken, was still at the office so went out and snapped a pic. Looking really red/purple ...going to be a beauty. This thing has been exposed to drought and below freezing temps on many occasions. I covered other with a plastic trash can during the vortex....otherwise it has been on its own.

Bismarckia is probably one of the most Florida adapted palms to come from another area ever.

That's so funny, Sonoranfans tried to argue with me that these palms don't grow well at all in Florida(maybe more specifically in the south), but as soon as I called him on it, he has basically disappeared... too bad because I thought he was a good contributor, besides this one stance!

[Sabal Steve]

Andrew, I don't recall Sonorafans ever saying that bizzies don't grow well at all in Florida... He simply stated that there are many places that they grow just as well, if not better, than in SOUTH Florida. It's all in the thread - feel free to bump it.

David, have you heard anything about D. ambositrae? I know that has adapted well to many cooler climates. Perhaps a larger, more seasoned one?

Edited December 5, 2014 by Sabal Steve

[Kailua_Krish]

Im glad it's doing so well! I planted that one when I was volunteering there during my Masters. I planted it in that location to give it some protection from frost as I had heard these were very frost sensitive.

I'd love some more photos of all the palms if you get the chance sometime! Cycads too! Many of the smaller palms and cycads were donated during the year I was there!

Ive had 3 plants of B. alfredii in ground for approx 3 years now. They're all planted under high shade. While we haven't seen any severe cold during that time in Central Florida I can't say Ive had any problems with these palms. They grow at a relatively good pace (though slower than what Ive heard they grow in the sun).

P.S. I also have Bismarkia and D. decipiens in ground for approx 5 years I think, no problems though there was a wide variety of hardiness in the bismarkia, the best were ones I germinated in situ rather than ones I bought and planted

They definitely grow much faster in full sun. The one at the USF botanical garden is doing well, albeit slower than the ones in my garden in full sun. Here's some pics from today, one of which has my bike for scale.

[John Case]

My B. alfrediis have survived 2 winters in a row experiencing short duration (4-8 hours) of 24 degrees and dry.

The tips of the leaves are no over my head, hoping for another 2 feet in growth next year as they begin to speed up.

[Josh-O]

Im glad it's doing so well! I planted that one when I was volunteering there during my Masters. I planted it in that location to give it some protection from frost as I had heard these were very frost sensitive.

I'd love some more photos of all the palms if you get the chance sometime! Cycads too! Many of the smaller palms and cycads were donated during the year I was there!

Ive had 3 plants of B. alfredii in ground for approx 3 years now. They're all planted under high shade. While we haven't seen any severe cold during that time in Central Florida I can't say Ive had any problems with these palms. They grow at a relatively good pace (though slower than what Ive heard they grow in the sun).

P.S. I also have Bismarkia and D. decipiens in ground for approx 5 years I think, no problems though there was a wide variety of hardiness in the bismarkia, the best were ones I germinated in situ rather than ones I bought and planted

They definitely grow much faster in full sun. The one at the USF botanical garden is doing well, albeit slower than the ones in my garden in full sun. Here's some pics from today, one of which has my bike for scale.

Krishna, nice Alfred you got there

[Kailua_Krish]

That one isn't mine, it's one planted at the USF botanical gardens. Mine are about 1/3 of the size still.

[Zeeth]

Krishna, re are some of the other palms from the USF botanical garden.

Foxtail getting bigger

Royal doing alright

Starting to trunk

The Pseudophoenix has died, unfortunately.

[Kailua_Krish]

I'm impressed that those are doing so well! Hopefully some in the jungle area did well too? I planted a Chambeyronia there and some archontophoenix. It hasn't been cold enough since I planted them for them to perish from that so I hope they're still alive

[Zeeth]

I'm impressed that those are doing so well! Hopefully some in the jungle area did well too? I planted a Chambeyronia there and some archontophoenix. It hasn't been cold enough since I planted them for them to perish from that so I hope they're still alive

The jungle is so densely planted that I've never been able to find the Chambeyronia. I'm going to USF for med school too though so I still have a few years to look. I'll keep you updated on the stuff there.

[Josh-O]

Krishna, re are some of the other palms from the USF botanical garden.

Foxtail getting bigger

Royal doing alright

Starting to trunk

The Pseudophoenix has died, unfortunately.

what do you think killed your Pseudophoenix ??

[Kailua_Krish]

I'm impressed that those are doing so well! Hopefully some in the jungle area did well too? I planted a Chambeyronia there and some archontophoenix. It hasn't been cold enough since I planted them for them to perish from that so I hope they're still alive

The jungle is so densely planted that I've never been able to find the Chambeyronia. I'm going to USF for med school too though so I still have a few years to look. I'll keep you updated on the stuff there.

I can imagine, I planted a good number of Ceratozamias (from Brad) scattered around that area. I hope they're still alive and will erupt out of the underbrush. We planted a kerriodoxa but for some reason it died off. It would be great if there could be a few planted as I think they'd do really well there (especially since they've done well for me in Ocala)

[Alicehunter2000]

Steve ......D. ambositrae....they seem to be doing ok in the shade. These two are in the pool planter beds with the D. cabadae and C. macrocarpa.

The friend that gave these to me reported that they have taken 25 degrees unprotected. A contender.

[Sutter Bob]

A handful with promise here - would not start any as seedlings without some cover or protection:

Dypsis decipiens, betafaka, baronii, ambositrae, onilahensis.

Bismarckia nobilis (finally got one off the launch pad).

Beccariophoenix alfredii - definitely not frost hardy as seedling here.

Ravenea xerophila.

[Tropicdoc]

What's hardier under canopy.... dypsis or archontophoenix?

[Josh-O]

why not just try them both? Depends on what species.

[Sutter Bob]

A. cunninghamiana; dypsis decipiens, baronii, onilahensis, and ambositrae all can make it at least a few years under cover here. I think onilahensis might be the most sensitive.

[Tropicdoc]

I guess the question was because I'm gonna put 2 or 3 of a crown shafted species under the canopy of my new live oaks. I will use Christmas lights or heat cables to help them every winter. I would like to use only one species to keep some sort of unity/ theme to the garden. I think A Cunningham with heat cables could live for 10-15 years under canopy here. Most winters stay above 25 F.