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Cocos nucifera on Madeira Island


Cluster
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@Cluster I don't know, I want to think it's outside, I didn't know they used greenhouses.

By the way,  I've always seen 18 °C and 64.4 F and not 64 F for the tropical climate.  Do you know if the IPMA published the 1991-2020 normals yet? 

Edited by Pargomad
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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)
On 5/1/2022 at 7:15 PM, Pargomad said:

@Cluster I don't know, I want to think it's outside, I didn't know they used greenhouses.

By the way,  I've always seen 18 °C and 64.4 F and not 64 F for the tropical climate.  Do you know if the IPMA published the 1991-2020 normals yet? 

Hello @Pargomad

The official is probably 18 C and not 64F, but sometimes you see the 64F, in any case 17.6 is still closer to 18 than 17, however if you are going to consider 81 till now, there are probably  few areas that already surpass 18. I think it makes no practical difference, do know that Havana has seen lower temperatures than South Coastal Madeira, so there are a few things that favor that cool tropical label for the warmest areas of Madeira coast.

They do have some stuff in the greenhouse as they are not sure they would survive outside, but I know that supposedly they have Euterpe oleracea outside and Annona Muricata fruiting. I do have a small Theobroma cacau that I put outside in a sheltered place from winds (My place is super super windy there) and it was putting leaves in winter.

 

Here are photos from last summer form Paul coconuts:

Trimmed as always but strong and healthy:

mvoxp77.jpg

10I4GNO.jpg

EBMOsXZ.jpg

8oyOapI.jpg

 

I could count 3 big coconuts there. Will try to visit the place this summer.

And here is the highest elevation coconut (200m/656feet) that I know of on the island, late winter 2022:

0NRDvOE.jpg

uX7KYie.jpg

 

Supposedly lately it has been given bunny manure so it has been growing stronger and faster.

 

 

Edited by Cluster
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Hello everyone,

Last summer I noticed that the neighbor's coconut got a deficiency:

rLME2IK.jpg

bNA9dBV.jpg

 

Would anyone know what it is? Maybe boron due to lack of irrigation in the summer? (I noticed no one was there during August 2021, maybe the irrigation was malfunctioning?)

 

The coconut has recovered slowly during the winter and spring and it seems the newest fronds are growing healthy again.

 

 

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Look like Frizzle top to me.  Magnesium deficiency .  

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On 8/11/2022 at 10:23 AM, 3 Milesfrom Gulf of Mexico said:

Look like Frizzle top to me.  Magnesium deficiency .  

Hello I believe you meant manganese deficiency right? At least this is what comes up with frizzle top. If it was frizzle top I believe this happens more in winter due to cold weather. In this case it happened middle/end summer. 

I am more convinced this is Boron deficiency as the leaves show wrinkling and I found this image online that is similar:

15196032413_310a0344a1_b.jpg

 

 

 

 

8828259268_6772e29848_b.jpg

 

From what I have read boron deficiency can happen in dry conditions where the palm will not absorb it.

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I think I found new Cocos on Madeira, in a surprising location: Ponta Delgada, North of the island (stunning location, very green & hilly) north is usually much cooler than the south. But PDL has a unique climate, it's warmer than other towns in the north. Winter temps are around 19C and rainfall is quite abundant here about 1200mm a year (2x times more than Funchal). I don't know of any other Cocos growing in north of the island. Correct me if I'm wrong. If everything works out I should be going to Madeira in November this year, and I'll try to take close up pictures! :) 

STREET VIEW: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8235797,-16.9908193,3a,75y,262.27h,90.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sB89OnbbI0I3TJDdc_Ize_Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

It seems like there were two of them, I guess one died of unknown reasons, perhaps it was too cold? Too windy? I don't know. (last pic.)

Also, where do you think is the warmest place in all of Madeira? I might move there next year, so I'm looking for the best place to plant Cocos and other tropical plants. (I would appreciate some tips on how to take care of the Cocos so they're in their best shape possible, maybe I could get them looking like in Bermuda)

BONUS: Added maps. (temps, rainfall)

cocos_sep18_1.png

cocos_sep18_2.png

cocos_jun21.png

cocos_nov09.png

cocos_sep18_3_dead.png

temp.gif

rain.gif

Edited by IlyaIvanov
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6 hours ago, Stelios said:

This looks like a ravenea rivularis not cocos. Still beautiful though.

Oh you’re right! The trunk looked a lot like Cocos, to me.

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On 12/28/2017 at 4:44 PM, Cluster said:

Hello Stelios, thanks for the update! I hope you enjoy your stay there:) Be sure to do Caldeirão Verde walk (if the weather allows it) and with a car go from Porto Moniz till Paul da Serra and then Encumeada, if the clouds are below Paul da Serra you are in for a treat road trip.

I had to go to Madeira mid October and took some pictures of the cocos (which I have not yet updated here), they were less trimmed in October and thus looked slightly better, the dwarf one for example had a leaf that was 90 degrees down and still green, showing that if you allow it, they can keep their fronds straight down:)

Take a look:

CY7qsz1.jpg

yqzH4mY.jpg

Af4ncER.jpg

yRhMNDM.jpg

DjFp0iR.jpg

 

J1FKjlv.jpg

r5bA16E.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/poVwh1h.jpgpoVwh1h.jpg

 

This last one is the tallest and oldest one:) Keep us up to date! And PM me if you need tips!

 

 

 

 

 

That dwarf looks almost like in Tropics wow! I don't think we need any more proof that Madeira can have stunning cocos :) (Green Malayan Dwarf, ...If I ever plant a coconut on Madeira It will be this variety)

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On 2/6/2019 at 10:17 PM, Cluster said:

Some years ago Kevin (Pargomad) showed us some promising cocos somewhere in Gaula. At that time I didn't give it much of a thought, I didn't know the zone well and it just got lost.This Winter I asked Alex (empireo22) if he could help me finding it with google maps and he did. I went there and this is the result:

Gaula coco, around 100 m/328 ft elevation:

Qz4wZwn.jpg

8ZZg5If.jpg

e5RvJjk.jpg

94tYkft.jpg

 

This is one of the best coconuts on the island (if not the best as the ones with potential are always super trimmed), I wish more people would plant them, they can look very good! Supposedly this area is not among the warmest and at this elevation it is not optimal, but the coco doesn't seem to care so who am I to disagree with it, maybe it is a warmer climate than what it is to be expected. I expect it to even look better during the years as the severe and long wind storms we had last year did affect all cocos.

Kevin when you return to Madeira you will want to pay a visit to this one!

Have a great day/night folks, have some hiking photos during my stay to share with you later.

 

 

 

Omg this one looks gorgeous, what variety is this one? You guys need to teach me.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/18/2022 at 12:13 AM, IlyaIvanov said:

I think I found new Cocos on Madeira, in a surprising location: Ponta Delgada, North of the island (stunning location, very green & hilly) north is usually much cooler than the south. But PDL has a unique climate, it's warmer than other towns in the north. Winter temps are around 19C and rainfall is quite abundant here about 1200mm a year (2x times more than Funchal). I don't know of any other Cocos growing in north of the island. Correct me if I'm wrong. If everything works out I should be going to Madeira in November this year, and I'll try to take close up pictures! :) 

STREET VIEW: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8235797,-16.9908193,3a,75y,262.27h,90.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sB89OnbbI0I3TJDdc_Ize_Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

It seems like there were two of them, I guess one died of unknown reasons, perhaps it was too cold? Too windy? I don't know. (last pic.)

Also, where do you think is the warmest place in all of Madeira? I might move there next year, so I'm looking for the best place to plant Cocos and other tropical plants. (I would appreciate some tips on how to take care of the Cocos so they're in their best shape possible, maybe I could get them looking like in Bermuda)

BONUS: Added maps. (temps, rainfall)

cocos_sep18_1.png

cocos_sep18_2.png

cocos_jun21.png

cocos_nov09.png

cocos_sep18_3_dead.png

temp.gif

rain.gif

Actually, it looks more like a majestic palm (ravenea rivularis) from Madagascar:

Ravenea rivularis - Wikipedia

The maps you sent us are kind of outdated and not very precise either. These show the temps and precipitation for the 1961-1990 period. Nowadays, the temperatures are more or less 2 degrees superior and the weather is significantly drier.

Either way, the warmest zone and most suitable place to grow tropical plants and trees (including cocos nucifera) is the southwestern coastline between Funchal (Lido) and Paúl do Mar at sea level, especially in what we call "fajãs", in other terms, a small flat piece of land, protected by high cliffs generally cultivable and located by the sea. Here's an example of a fajã in Paúl do Mar where tropical plants such as cocos, bananas, papayas, mangos, etc are grown:

Ocean Paradise plage Villa Paul Do Mar - Villa à Paul do Mar (Madère,  Portugal)

 

 

Edited by Pargomad
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1 hour ago, Pargomad said:

Actually, it looks more like a majestic palm (ravenea rivularis) from Madagascar:

Ravenea rivularis - Wikipedia

The maps you sent us are kind of outdated and not very precise either. These show the temps and precipitation for the 1961-1990 period. Nowadays, the temperatures are more or less 2 degrees superior and the weather is significantly drier.

Either way, the warmest zone and most suitable place to grow tropical plants and trees (including cocos nucifera) is the southwestern coastline between Funchal (Lido) and Paúl do Mar at sea level, especially in what we call "fajãs", in other terms, a small flat piece of land, protected by high cliffs generally cultivable and located by the sea. Here's an example of a fajã in Paúl do Mar where tropical plants such as cocos, bananas, papayas, mangos, etc are grown:

Ocean Paradise plage Villa Paul Do Mar - Villa à Paul do Mar (Madère,  Portugal)

 

 

That's a beautiful palm indeed! I will definitely check out Paul Do Mar and take some pictures when am there, I am going to Madeira in 2 days! For 28 days. So I will have a lot of pictures to post :) 

I also found this website: https://www.infoclimat.fr/climatologie/normales-records/1991-2020/funchal/valeurs/08522.html showing 1991-2020 normals, it seems like the lowest temps are in January (19,9 Degrees) Which is quite warm, I bet Paul Do Mar is at least 0.5 Degrees warmer. Which is similar to Bermuda or even same. (https://www.infoclimat.fr/climatologie/normales-records/1991-2020/bermuda/valeurs/78016.html

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19 hours ago, IlyaIvanov said:

That's a beautiful palm indeed! I will definitely check out Paul Do Mar and take some pictures when am there, I am going to Madeira in 2 days! For 28 days. So I will have a lot of pictures to post :) 

I also found this website: https://www.infoclimat.fr/climatologie/normales-records/1991-2020/funchal/valeurs/08522.html showing 1991-2020 normals, it seems like the lowest temps are in January (19,9 Degrees) Which is quite warm, I bet Paul Do Mar is at least 0.5 Degrees warmer. Which is similar to Bermuda or even same. (https://www.infoclimat.fr/climatologie/normales-records/1991-2020/bermuda/valeurs/78016.html

Yes, this area seems to have the highest average temperatures of the entire island with a transitional climate between Mediterranean and tropical. I would say that the maximum temperatures are around 20 and the minimum temperatures 14-15 in winter. Here is a rough delineation of the climatic zones of the island, in blue you can see the warmest area of the island, very close to a tropical climate: 660015991_Madeira_Kppen_Geiger.thumb.jpg.8bc0b87199f8c377f33c723975eaf93c.jpg

This summer I went to Madeira for a weekend and took some pictures of the coconut trees in Paúl do Mar. Unfortunately, there weren't no fruit this time and they had been trimmed.

IMG_7973.thumb.jpg.38560e49c74758169410eff6d7ca0318.jpg

 IMG_7972.thumb.JPG.5fbfcceb75b403b9bfc2f7b7a1f2239c.JPG

IMG_7952.thumb.JPG.ef17b94874e45a35a8045d8747f0cc9d.JPG 

The garden has also some impressive dypsis lutescens, howea forsteriana, roystonea regia, phoenix canariensis and even a pandanus utilis. 

Edited by Pargomad
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The coldest month seems to be the equivalent of Southern Mediterranean November and May (comparing to Malta). It's just enough for a coconut palm not to deteriorate. Colder than that temperature range for long needs to be very carefully monitored not to over water and it will be challenging till the temperatures warm up again 

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Hey guys, I just found out that at some point coconut trees were actually for sale on the island. I always thought that you had to import them directly from somewhere else. Here is an old photo (from 2011) of 6 cocos for sale in a nursery in Tábua, near Ribeira Brava. I guess they aren't as unavailable to purchase as I previously thought. But still, there are like 100 times more palm trees of other species available for sale such as archontophoenix and howeas, that might explain why you can see them in almost every public space or private garden on the island. 

Aucune description de photo disponible.

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Are they planted in the ground inside the greenhouse and uprooted? Or are they in huge pots? 

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12 minutes ago, Maltese coconut project said:

Are they planted in the ground inside the greenhouse and uprooted? Or are they in huge pots? 

They're planted in pots. 

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It's surprising how palms including coconut palms manage to grow big even in fairly confined spaces. Some even in a space just with few missing tiles in the ground, some in pots and some even in small cracks 

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On 10/18/2022 at 12:13 AM, IlyaIvanov said:

I think I found new Cocos on Madeira, in a surprising location: Ponta Delgada, North of the island (stunning location, very green & hilly) north is usually much cooler than the south. But PDL has a unique climate, it's warmer than other towns in the north. Winter temps are around 19C and rainfall is quite abundant here about 1200mm a year (2x times more than Funchal). I don't know of any other Cocos growing in north of the island. Correct me if I'm wrong. If everything works out I should be going to Madeira in November this year, and I'll try to take close up pictures! :) 

STREET VIEW: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8235797,-16.9908193,3a,75y,262.27h,90.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sB89OnbbI0I3TJDdc_Ize_Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

It seems like there were two of them, I guess one died of unknown reasons, perhaps it was too cold? Too windy? I don't know. (last pic.)

Also, where do you think is the warmest place in all of Madeira? I might move there next year, so I'm looking for the best place to plant Cocos and other tropical plants. (I would appreciate some tips on how to take care of the Cocos so they're in their best shape possible, maybe I could get them looking like in Bermuda)

BONUS: Added maps. (temps, rainfall)

cocos_sep18_1.png

cocos_sep18_2.png

cocos_jun21.png

cocos_nov09.png

cocos_sep18_3_dead.png

temp.gif

rain.gif

@IlyaIvanovI found a more accurate map for the same period (1961-1990), but if you want an idea of what the climate is like nowadays, just add 1-2 degrees. As you can see, the warmest area is the coastline at lower elevations.

The darker orange shows the regions with temperatures superior to 18 degrees (today i would say 19-20).  You'll need to move there if you want to try to grow coconut trees, especially in the southwestern coast.  

image.thumb.png.fa86c977eb56b457b2795fba28640629.png

Be careful though, because these same areas are also the driest parts of the island, so you'll need to irrigate your cocos, especially in summer. 

image.thumb.png.20ad19991d979b813b7317423a7ed0f1.png

Edited by Pargomad
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