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Cocos nucifera on Madeira Island


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Cocos nucifera have the advantage of being halophyte and tolerating salt spray and therefore it's easier for them to handle the foliar spray without getting leaf burn.. I use organic foliar spray 

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18 hours ago, Maltese coconut project said:

Cocos nucifera have the advantage of being halophyte and tolerating salt spray and therefore it's easier for them to handle the foliar spray without getting leaf burn.. I use organic foliar spray 

That's good.  I only use all organic slow release granular fertilizer for the root zone, and only all organic foliar spray fertilizer for the leaves.

John

P.S.  Yes, Coconut Palms are probably not only the most salt tolerant palms, but the most salt tolerant of all trees along with Sea Grapes, with the exception of Mangrove Trees themselves, which are the only trees that actually grow in seawater.

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I am experimenting using the foliar organic frequently, slow release pellets just two times per year (spring and Autumn/fall) and dilute liquid version in small quantities frequently (less than the recommended dose but more frequent, that way risk of overdose is minimised). Also I reduce Nitrogen in late Autumn/fall - something I started this year) and increase potassium,  Magnesium,  silicon, molybdenum,  manganese and zinc in Autumn/fall to increase cold resistance. Hopefully it will work out 

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18 minutes ago, Maltese coconut project said:

I am experimenting using the foliar organic frequently, slow release pellets just two times per year (spring and Autumn/fall) and dilute liquid version in small quantities frequently (less than the recommended dose but more frequent, that way risk of overdose is minimised). Also I reduce Nitrogen in late Autumn/fall - something I started this year) and increase potassium,  Magnesium,  silicon, molybdenum,  manganese and zinc in Autumn/fall to increase cold resistance. Hopefully it will work out 

Definitely let us all know how it works out.  I use the granular slow release fertilizer 4 times per year (mid February, mid May, mid August, and mid November), and this really seems to help my Coconut Palms, Christmas Palms, and other cold sensitive tropicals out.  It appears to strengthen them up for winter with the November fertilization, and helps them recover from winter better/faster with the February fertilization.  And as stated earlier, I do my foliar spray fertilizations at various times throughout the year.

John

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I forgot to mention that also in spring and autumn/fall I used also a product named biosynergy which has beneficial bacteria for the soil biome and a small pack which feeds them (humic acids). The beneficial bacteria help raise soil temperature slightly as well. Definitely I will keep updating. Hopefully we can learn if the coconut chill damage comes from malnutrition due to decreased root absorption and whether it can be bypassed via correct combination of foliar and soil fertiliser techniques 

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Edited by Maltese coconut project
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I use different products in different seasons. These are the current fertilisers I use on alkaline fertiliser day (near weekend). NPK 3-11-38 + 4 to reduce excess Nitrogen during which leaf growth slows down to prevent it from softening the leaves.  Potassium nitrate since Potassium wins for hardening leaves vs Nitrogen. Calcium oxide gel also helps strengthen the cell walls.  During warmer season I use Calcium nitrate granules. Micronutrients to ensure there aren't deficiencies. Magnesium sulfate because both magnesium and sulphur help winter hardening. Molybdenum also helps winter resistance. 

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These are mostly acid preferring fertilisers (more bioavailable in acidic environment) . MC cream is a marine algae product rich in Manganese and Zinc. Orsilik is a silicon product. Control DMP reduces PH (I test it with PH meter and bring it to 5.5). Then chelated iron. They help with winter hardiness as well. I use these during mid week) 

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Edited by Maltese coconut project
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These are organic fertilisers, Plantafol is a low Nitrogen NPK and Brexil multi with micronutrients. Hopefully they will play a crucial role in bioavailability through leaves (due to the reduced macronutrients and micronutrients absorption through roots in winter) 

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These are the slow release fertiliser combination I use.. I use half doses of both because together they have complementary micronutrients.. I use them in April and October 

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This is calcium nitrate I use during warmer months (I exchange with calcium oxide in November to reduce on Nitrogen 

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This is NPK 22 12 12 I use during warmer season. I use it from May and stop it by end of Summer. Micronutrients I use all year round 

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Today warm and humid for a December with South Western wind, light rain, maximum temperature 23 degrees celcius /73 degrees Fahrenheit 

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On 12/8/2022 at 12:17 PM, Stelios said:

I found this website from a nursery in Holland. They seem to sell big palms including cocos. I can't see the price so I think you need to contact them.

https://www.nieuwkoop-europe.com/en/plants/palm-trees?limit=30

Does anyone know how much those tall potted coconuts cost?

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23 hours ago, gurugu said:

Does anyone know how much those tall potted coconuts cost?

There is a company that imports them into the UK and is selling them and is selling them for £2,600 for a 400cm one.

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1 hour ago, Foxpalms said:

There is a company that imports them into the UK and is selling them and is selling them for £2,600 for a 400cm one.

No way!:(

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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50 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

No way!:(

Palm tree are very over priced here, small Coconuts you can 80-100cm tall you can buy for £15-30 but a large trunking one is in the thousands.  Since we left the EU it's been very hard to buy palms trees here with not much choice to the point I'm considering on possibly trying to import a few. I think floridabunda might do international orders over $400 but I'm not sure if they can meet the UK phytosanitary certificate requirements because they are funny unlike other countries, where the palms need be grown in a protected green house and also be pest free or they need a 2 year quarantine. Sometimes you can find cheap palms here though, I've seen some trunking archontophoenix for sale before for only £30. A 12ft queen palm will cost about £300 in the UK and a 26ft one around £900. 

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On 12/12/2022 at 1:01 PM, Foxpalms said:

There is a company that imports them into the UK and is selling them and is selling them for £2,600 for a 400cm one.

WOW!!!  That seems EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE!!!  Based on the online conversion I just did from Pounds to Dollars, that comes out to be $3,221.92, which is OUTRAGEOUSLY EXPENSIVE for any Coconut Palm of any height in the U.S.!!!

John

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8 hours ago, Aleitalyyy said:

@Mr. Coconut PalmI don't understand the corona california coconut then...

one has high maxima but also has prolonged cold temperatures in winter...

 

I think the explanation is that it gets warm enough in the daytime to offset the normally chilly nights there.  But if you remember the pics of it, it had leaf bases clinging to the trunk for some distance up and down the trunk.  I think this may be for two reasons:  1. as moisture retention to help retain moisture in the trunk in the desert climate, and 2. maybe as an insulation adaptation in winter to help with insulating the bud on cold winter nights.  I have seen similar things with my Coconut Palms here on the east side of Corpus Christi, Texas, in a marginal climate for them, with somewhat less overall leaf base retention here, due to our higher rainfall, but still more leaf base retention than what you would find on Coconut Palm in South Florida, the Caribbean Islands, and the Yucatan.

By the way, I have seen photos of mature Coconut Palms with some nuts growing on them in the Lake Chapala region of inland Mexico near Guadalajara, where they can have chilly night time lows (normally too chilly for good Coconut Palm growth) in the wintertime, but high enough afternoon high temps to offset the chilly nighttime temps there in the winter.

John

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1 hour ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

I think the explanation is that it gets warm enough in the daytime to offset the normally chilly nights there.  But if you remember the pics of it, it had leaf bases clinging to the trunk for some distance up and down the trunk.  I think this may be for two reasons:  1. as moisture retention to help retain moisture in the trunk in the desert climate, and 2. maybe as an insulation adaptation in winter to help with insulating the bud on cold winter nights.  I have seen similar things with my Coconut Palms here on the east side of Corpus Christi, Texas, in a marginal climate for them, with somewhat less overall leaf base retention here, due to our higher rainfall, but still more leaf base retention than what you would find on Coconut Palm in South Florida, the Caribbean Islands, and the Yucatan.

By the way, I have seen photos of mature Coconut Palms with some nuts growing on them in the Lake Chapala region of inland Mexico near Guadalajara, where they can have chilly night time lows (normally too chilly for good Coconut Palm growth) in the wintertime, but high enough afternoon high temps to offset the chilly nighttime temps there in the winter.

John

All this is true.

Just to add, the mature and fruiting coconuts in the northern side of Lake Chapala do not have any leaf bases attached. 

Thanks for the info John. 

 

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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11 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

All this is true.

Just to add, the mature and fruiting coconuts in the northern side of Lake Chapala do not have any leaf bases attached. 

Thanks for the info John. 

 

 

You are welcome, Alex.  They probably lose their leaf bases there due to adequate rainfall, hence no need to retain them for more moisture retention, as in drier climates.

John

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  • 3 months later...
  • 4 months later...

Hi guys, 

It’s been a while since I posted something here. I just want to share with you some photos of the marina of Funchal which is currently being remodeled. Against all odds.  local authorities have preserved the coconut palms there. They even transplanted one of them (the first one at the entry) instead of simply removing it. They still need water and look a little bit affected by the ongoing renovation work. 
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Still looking good! It would be a shame if they removed them after so many years. I wonder what would happened if they transplanted one to Ponta Delgada in the North where there's enough rain.

Edited by IlyaIvanov
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On 8/25/2023 at 11:58 PM, IlyaIvanov said:

Still looking good! It would be a shame if they removed them after so many years. I wonder what would happened if they transplanted one to Ponta Delgada in the North where there's enough rain.

I'm not sure if it would thrive there especially due to the lack of warmth. Madeira is already at the limit for them to succesfully grow and fruit, and only in coastal areas in the south where the highest daily temperatures in Winter normally reach 20-21 degrees like northern Tenerife or La Palma in the Canary islands. The most protected and warmest areas in the Azores don't reach these values in Winter (17-18 degrees). 

Here's a young coconut palm bordering a pool in Arco da Calheta at sea level. It looks very happy. 

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Edited by Pargomad
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Sorry for the late reply, I meant in the north as of Madera's north, which I find more beautiful it's like Hawaii there.

Coastal areas in the north like Ponta Delgada or Porto Moniz averages about 19+C during coldest months.

I also checked official IPMA data for Sao Vicente (at 97m and 1.5km away from the ocean) and calculated average high temperatures for the last 12 years, with the result of 18.8C being the coldest temperature.  Which is even higher than Porto Santo, but I know Sao Vicente receives less sunshine during winter. But the advantage of Sao Vicente is that it's very protected from the strong winds that would damage the palm. I'm not sure why the temps are so high here despite being in the north, especially in the valley.

Basically I want to try growing Cocos in Sao Vicente because we're buying a property here, it's pretty much at the same location as the IPMA station. (just 300 meters away, and slightly higher elevation at 135 meters, it's definitely one of the sunnier locations in SV)

I don't care if they will produce any inflorescence, I am wondering if it's even possible.

So I was wondering what would happened if someone could transplanted them there, they also wouldn't need to irrigate them.

 

saov-ps-temp.png

Edited by IlyaIvanov
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52 minutes ago, IlyaIvanov said:

Sorry for the late reply, I meant in the north as of Madera's north, which I find more beautiful it's like Hawaii there.

Coastal areas in the north like Ponta Delgada or Porto Moniz averages about 19+C during coldest months.

I also checked official IPMA data for Sao Vicente (at 97m and 1.5km away from the ocean) and calculated average high temperatures for the last 12 years, with the result of 18.8C being the coldest temperature.  Which is even higher than Porto Santo, but I know Sao Vicente receives less sunshine during winter. But the advantage of Sao Vicente is that it's very protected from the strong winds that would damage the palm. I'm not sure why the temps are so high here despite being in the north, especially in the valley.

Basically I want to try growing Cocos in Sao Vicente because we're buying a property here, it's pretty much at the same location as the IPMA station. (just 300 meters away, and slightly higher elevation at 135 meters, it's definitely one of the sunnier locations in SV)

I don't care if they will produce any inflorescence, I am wondering if it's even possible.

So I was wondering what would happened if someone could transplanted them there, they also wouldn't need to irrigate them.

 

saov-ps-temp.png

I think it will be fine there especially if you can create a microclimate in the garden for it or plant it against a south facing wall ect... But it depends on how far from the ocean you are.

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Property is 1.7km from the ocean. (1 mile)

The average low temperature in February (coldest month) averages 11.2°C. Which is pretty good, and I don’t think it really matters that it’s 2 degrees cooler than coastal areas. At least it’s not as windy and there’s more sun, since the valley is so large.

Also… does planting it by the wall really help? Like is there really any temperature difference? At least by 1°C? Cuz I have no experience.

Edited by IlyaIvanov
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2 hours ago, IlyaIvanov said:

Property is 1.7km from the ocean. (1 mile)

The average low temperature in February (coldest month) averages 11.2°C. Which is pretty good, and I don’t think it really matters that it’s 2 degrees cooler than coastal areas. At least it’s not as windy and there’s more sun, since the valley is so large.

Also… does planting it by the wall really help? Like is there really any temperature difference? At least by 1°C? Cuz I have no experience.

Madeira is at 32N so the sun is fairly strong. By pacing it against a south facing wall it will radiate out that heat at night keeping it slightly warmer. But during the day when it's sunny that's when there will be the biggest difference. Other things you could do is maybe put layer of dark colored sand/rocks over the soil you plant it in.  I would also recommend growing the coconuts from seed or from a nursery that hasn't babied there's too much. The Dutch greenhouse ones are a lot less hardy.  If you could get coconuts from the palms in Funchal and germinate those they would probably be hardiest. Another option could be shipping some from the canary islands. Where you are I would say is marginal for them so every degrees Celsius you can get from a microclimate will help massively.

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Yep, can confirm the sun is quite strong even in winter.  (UV Index 6 in February).

Thanks for the tips, if everything goes as planned I will do exactly what you said!

I also noticed a lot of Foxtail Palms in that neighbourhood. Could that be a good indicator of a "warm" location? Because I haven't seen many around the island, not even in Funchal. Probably because they require regular watering.

I think they look pretty good, especially with the surrounding landscape:

foxtails_sv.png

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On 9/17/2023 at 6:29 AM, IlyaIvanov said:

Sorry for the late reply, I meant in the north as of Madera's north, which I find more beautiful it's like Hawaii there.

Coastal areas in the north like Ponta Delgada or Porto Moniz averages about 19+C during coldest months.

I also checked official IPMA data for Sao Vicente (at 97m and 1.5km away from the ocean) and calculated average high temperatures for the last 12 years, with the result of 18.8C being the coldest temperature.  Which is even higher than Porto Santo, but I know Sao Vicente receives less sunshine during winter. But the advantage of Sao Vicente is that it's very protected from the strong winds that would damage the palm. I'm not sure why the temps are so high here despite being in the north, especially in the valley.

Basically I want to try growing Cocos in Sao Vicente because we're buying a property here, it's pretty much at the same location as the IPMA station. (just 300 meters away, and slightly higher elevation at 135 meters, it's definitely one of the sunnier locations in SV)

I don't care if they will produce any inflorescence, I am wondering if it's even possible.

So I was wondering what would happened if someone could transplanted them there, they also wouldn't need to irrigate them.

 

saov-ps-temp.png

I think it's borderline at this location. Keep in mind that the coconut palms in Porto Santo grow by the beach and the airport is a few km inland and at a higher elevation so temperatures might be 1 degree (or even more) higher next to the ocean. I feel more concerned about the maximum mean temperatures in winter since they need some warmth during the day. I would say 20 degrees Celsius would be the minimum requirement. Having said that, I think it would survive if you manage to create a microclimate in your yard. I seriously doubt it would produce any inflorescence but I can be mistaken. There's a nice coconut palm growing near Santa Cruz (not the warmest part of the island) at the same altitude but closer to the ocean. 

I haven't seen a coconut palm in the North yet. I've heard of one growing in a house in Calhau but I never got to chance to see it. Nonetheless, I think the warmest parts of the northern coast would be at sea level in some more protected valleys. For instance, according to the official data (1971-2000), the warmest parts in winter are not in the southwestern coast as expected, but in the northern coast in some well protected valleys (in yellow). 

Average mean temperatures for December (1971-2000): 

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Average mean temperatures for January (1971-2000): 

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Average mean temperatures for February (1971-2000) 

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Average mean temperatures for March (1971-2000)

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So according to these maps, (which you can find in here: https://www.ipma.pt/pt/oclima/monitoriza.dia/ ) it might be wiser to plant coconut trees in these areas, like in Faial at sea level. There is even a big plant nursery full of palm trees there. image.thumb.png.14025b40527244f318d8a572c99bb628.png

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This area also has another advantage compared to the southwestern coast: it rains more in summer than in the south, which explains the hawaiian/tropical appearance of the surroundings.  

Precipitation total in July (1971-2000):  

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Precipitation total in August (1971-2000) 

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Landscape near Faial during summer:

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The only difference I can see between the north and the southwest is that in the south, maximum temperatures tend to be higher both in winter and summer. This difference in temperature might explain why we can find mature coconut palms up to 200 m. in the southwest. They need high temperatures in order to fully develop. 

Maximum mean temperatures in February (1971-2000): 

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Maximum mean temperatures in August (1971-2000): 

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8 hours ago, IlyaIvanov said:

Yep, can confirm the sun is quite strong even in winter.  (UV Index 6 in February).

Thanks for the tips, if everything goes as planned I will do exactly what you said!

I also noticed a lot of Foxtail Palms in that neighbourhood. Could that be a good indicator of a "warm" location? Because I haven't seen many around the island, not even in Funchal. Probably because they require regular watering.

I think they look pretty good, especially with the surrounding landscape:

foxtails_sv.png

Those are not foxtail palms but queen palms Syagrus romanzoffiana, a palm native to South America and they're quite hardy (zone 9a). You can grow them in the south of France quite easily. In Madeira, just like mainland Portugal, people are not fully aware of their climate and its potential, so the species variety tends to be very "boring" compared to other locations like the Canary Islands. With their climate they could grow lots of tropical species in abundance, but they prefer to plant common ornamental Mediterranean palm trees (and even temperate trees like planes or poplars). Málaga and the Costa del Sol in Andalusia has a more tropical/Miami vibe than Funchal and the climate is colder in winter there. 

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Thanks so much for all the info! I learned new things, I didn't know about this "section" of the website https://www.ipma.pt/pt/oclima/monitoriza.dia/ and the big palm nursery in Faial.

The thing is I wouldn't change the location of the property, since the surrounding landscape is more important to me than few degrees, I will still try to grow Cocos there, make some nice microclimate for it and take good care of the palm. Also... the data is from 1971-2000, the temps are higher by 0.7°C now, and will get higher with time, so I am quite confident that there's a lot of potential for tropical plants. What other palm do you think would do well in SV? Because I don't want to plant "Mainland" palms or plants, I want those zone 10/11 palms 😀

 

Also they didn't even have official station in Sao Vicente until 2011, so their data for 1971-2000 might be less accurate.

The new 2011-2022 data proves it (attached file)

EN_S_Temperatura_Anual_0022.xlsx

Edited by IlyaIvanov
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Here is my 2 cents:

In very warm and protected areas of Cyprus and similar Mediterranean, you might be able to keep them up. Not sure it would survive 30 year old extremes in these areas, though, if you do not intervene, which for a coco will be too many weeks with rain and low temperatures. It is better to have 0 degrees min/14max and sunshine for 2 days than 16/8 and rain for 2 weeks. If you have surrounding walls it gives an extra leg for sure and those that can have a mild success usually plant them in such locations by having the coco near a south wall or even more.

Your location will be warmer than all these spots, the UV will be stronger, only the sunshine remains in question and how good your soil drainage is. If indeed you have low wind that helps too. Take care of drainage first and then shelter and sunshine.

@Pargomad I do not believe we have seen that coconut in Santa Cruz do you mean the Gaula one?

Those studies of the north coast are probably wrong, the only thing you can compete with is probably the lows, but mean and high temperatures will be higher on average in the south/southwest. Why do I say this? More sunshine in the south, prevailing winds are NE, which means the Foehn effect will have an impact on the south/southwest coast more often. When the wind rotates to SW then the north might be warmer. There have been a few coastal stations before and now, one used to be in Ponta Delgada (do now know what altitude, ponta delgada can go higher up than one expects) and Porto Moniz one that is currently online. Both are cooler than Funchal, the lows of Porto Moniz are very good though. Another reason is to be addicted to the car thermometer, it is rare to see the north as warm as the south and Gaula is warm by the way, so are parts of Funchal,.

I am almost sure Center Funchal and West Funchal can be as warm as SW coast, ideally you will probably want to be on a slope in the south side 200/300 meters from the sea or so, this will give you higher max and the drainage from the slope and proximity to the sea will hold great lows.

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1 hour ago, IlyaIvanov said:

Thanks so much for all the info! I learned new things, I didn't know about this "section" of the website https://www.ipma.pt/pt/oclima/monitoriza.dia/ and the big palm nursery in Faial.

The thing is I wouldn't change the location of the property, since the surrounding landscape is more important to me than few degrees, I will still try to grow Cocos there, make some nice microclimate for it and take good care of the palm. Also... the data is from 1971-2000, the temps are higher by 0.7°C now, and will get higher with time, so I am quite confident that there's a lot of potential for tropical plants. What other palm do you think would do well in SV? Because I don't want to plant "Mainland" palms or plants, I want those zone 10/11 palms 😀

 

Also they didn't even have official station in Sao Vicente until 2011, so their data for 1971-2000 might be less accurate.

The new 2011-2022 data proves it (attached file)

EN_S_Temperatura_Anual_0022.xlsx 109.19 kB · 2 downloads

Here is a list I’ve established over the last years about the variety of palms that grow or can be grown on Madeira island. For that, I based myself on a phytogeographic study, on some statements made here on the forum and, finally, on my trips there or on some photos I saw on the internet. I would like to make clear that this is a non-exhaustive list and if you have any useful addition or comment, don't hesitate and tell me on the comments below ! 

- Acoelorraphe wrightii

- Adonidia merrilli

- Acrocomia aculeate

- Allagoptera arenaria

- Archontophoenix alexandrae

- Archontophoenix cunninghamiana

- Arenga engleri

- Bismarckia nobilis

- Brahea armata

- Brahea dulcis

- Butia capitata

- Caryota maxima

- Caryota mitis

- Caryota urens

- Chambeyronia macrocarpa

- Chamaedora costaricana

- Chamaedorea elegans

- Chamaedora erupens

- Chamaerops humilis

- Cocos nucifera

- Copernicia alba

- Dypsis decaryi

- Dypsis lutescens

- Howea belmoreana

- Howea forsteriana

- Hyophorbe lagenicaulis

- Hyophorbe verschaffeltii

- Jubaea chilensis

- Latania lontaroides

- Livistona australis

- Livistona chinensis

- Livistona mariae

- Livistona saribus

- Phoenix canariensis

- Phoenix dactylifera

- Phoenix reclinata

- Phoenix roebelenii

- Polyandrococos caudescens

- Ptychosperma elegans

- Ptychosperma macarthurii

- Ravenea rivularis

- Rhapis excelsa

- Rhopalostylis sapida

- Roystonea borinquena

- Roystonea oleracea

- Roystonea regia

- Sabal mauritiiformis

- Sabal mexicana

- Sabal minor

- Sabal palmetto

- Sabal uresana

- Serenoa repens

- Syagrus botryophora

- Syagrus romanzoffiana

- Trachycarpus fortunei

- Trithrinax brasiliensis

- Veitchia arecina

- Wallichia caryotoides

- Washingtonia filifera

- Washingtonia robusta

- Wodyetia bifurcata

 

Now, If I had a house there I would definitely try to recreate a typical tropical Hawaiian garden with common palm species used there such as cocos nucifera, adonidia merrilli, pritchardia sp., roystonea sp. , dypsis lutescens, latania loddigesii, etc. 

Edited by Pargomad
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