Cocos nucifera on Madeira Island

[Maltese coconut project]

32 minutes ago, Aleitalyyy said:

yes I also separated the leaflets ... I still keep it at home because it is cold at night ... I see that yours are quite well ... let's hope for new foliage now ...

Yes and I am hoping that soon I will be able to transfer to North facing to avoid the extreme scorching sun 

 

[Maltese coconut project]

1 hour ago, Aleitalyyy said:

yes I also separated the leaflets ... I still keep it at home because it is cold at night ... I see that yours are quite well ... let's hope for new foliage now ...

I am hoping for a close heatwave to be able to transfer to North facing so that they only have ty receive delicate early morning and late evening sun

[Aleitalyyy]

from my point of view, if I were in your place with your plants, I would opt the month that comes to transplant at least the 2 largest specimens in the picture .... I would put them in the ground where they receive the sun all day .. . is watering every day from June to October .... in pots and under the scorching sun I agree with you they could suffer ....

[Aleitalyyy]

unfortunately I will never be able to plant my coconut in the garden ... I am too far north, I would try in Sicily, but I am in Liguria ... the cold of January roasts it in a few days ... in Malta I think that your plants in the open garden and in full sun they have a great chance of succeeding ... with a sandy soil especially the game is done ... I hope to see them soon grow at least 1 of your coconuts in the garden ...

[Maltese coconut project]

4 hours ago, Aleitalyyy said:

yes I also separated the leaflets ... I still keep it at home because it is cold at night ... I see that yours are quite well ... let's hope for new foliage now ...

I am hoping for a close heatwave to be able to transfer to North facing so that they only have ty receive delicate early morning and late evening sun

[Maltese coconut project]

I will try to plant them close to summer 2022. For now it's still too early to try that experiment 

[Aleitalyyy]

I think that the roots in the ground have more resistance and more heat in depth ... as well as the palm becomes stronger ... this is just my idea ... but I could see it with citrus fruits in pots, after a frost those in pots lose their leaves and suffer ... those in the ground have no cold damage ...

[Maltese coconut project]

Depends where.. I put my pots south facing. In Malta it's warmer. The problem is that if you plant in the ground you can't move them any more 

[Aleitalyyy]

now it has started growing faster again ... I fertilize every time I water .... in the evening I take it indoors and in the daytime outside ... I have noticed that it drinks a lot more water now ...

[Aleitalyyy]

On 26/4/2021 at 17:42, Maltese coconut project said:

Dipende da dove. Ho messo i miei vasi rivolti a sud. A Malta fa più caldo. Il problema è che se pianti nel terreno non puoi più spostarli 

hello dear how are the palms

[Maltese coconut project]

Doing great 

[Aleitalyyy]

oh god what a show ... and therefore in Malta the coconut can survive .... dear I hope you soon plant some in the open field and see it grow and prosper ... you are great!

[Maltese coconut project]

Our winter is borderline between coconut making it or not depending on the size and age of palm (larger ones are stronger) and south facing position. Next cool seasons I will use huge bags around each small enough specimen that fits in the bag as a mini greenhouse to help them a bit 

[palmfriend]

Hi @Maltese coconut project

 with all due respect but since this definitely interesting development gets more 

momentum by itself I strongly recommend to start another/new "Maltese coconut thread"

and to leave this "Madeira thread" as it is. The documentation about Madeira is already an

almost unique thread with a lot of updates while the Maltese coconut history is still 

very young but definitely promising. 

To keep this forum as focused on specific terms as it is I would like to ask you kindly 

to open another (new) thread for documenting your own palm growing results. 

(((@PALM MOD No presuming intended at all - my honest apologiese in advance!)))

With best regards from Okinawa -

Lars

 

[Maltese coconut project]

I already started that one last winter but thought I'd share opinions in other similar Coconut discussions to help learn from each other 

[Maltese coconut project]

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/67862-cocos-nucifera-coconut-in-malta/&tab=comments#comment-986347

[palmfriend]

@Maltese coconut project,

I am following your own thread with interest since I like to grow Cocos nucifera successfully on our

island as well but there are sometimes marginal differences (depending on topographical conditions)

that decide about success or failure. 

Posting your own experiences in another thread about a completely different area is definitely

fine but using the other (original) thread to broadcast almost all of your updates is not the way

it should it be, don't you think?

If you do not get much responses in your own thread than you should leave it how it is - sometimes 

a topic doesn't get that far...

Happens all the time 

best regards

Lars

 

[Maltese coconut project]

My intention is a good one.. It's for sharing information regarding areas with borderline seasons something that Madeira,  Canary Islands,  Malta, Crete, Cyprus, Lampedusa, areas with Mediterranean like weather such as some parts of California etc, areas near the low or mid 30 degrees North or South of the equator. There aren't any particular rules but rather its beneficial that everyone in similar climates learn such data 

[palmfriend]

Look, I do not doubt that at all and I think I already made myself clear. When I see an update

in the Madeira thread I am usually expecting an Madeira update by @Cluster and 

not an ongoing discussion about coconut palms on Malta... - don't you see? 

Sharing information about your own area is one thing, but taking over/"hijacking" another

thread is another.

This is all I am going to post over here since I am thinking everything necessary has been said -

Have a good day!

Lars

 

[Maltese coconut project]

Are you a moderator? Are there specific rules which don't permit sharing information in these forums? 

[PALM MOD]

8 hours ago, Maltese coconut project said:

Are you a moderator? Are there specific rules which don't permit sharing information in these forums? 

The applicable rule is "Remain on topic."

[Maltese coconut project]

I see 

[Alicante]

10 hours ago, Maltese coconut project said:

My intention is a good one.. It's for sharing information regarding areas with borderline seasons something that Madeira,  Canary Islands,  Malta, Crete, Cyprus, Lampedusa, areas with Mediterranean like weather such as some parts of California etc, areas near the low or mid 30 degrees North or South of the equator. There aren't any particular rules but rather its beneficial that everyone in similar climates learn such data 

Madeira and especially the Canary Islands are in a world apart climate-wise from any European Med island. Not so much for the means but a lot more because of their winter temperatures.  They can't be comparable because of the differences during winters. 
Much of the Canaries coastal places have tropical climates (+18.0ºC mean in the coldest month) and the rest is borderline tropical (+17.0ºC at least) while not a single place of the mentioned Med islands have +18.0ºC highs in their coldest month, all compared using their 30-year official averages.
Only Madeira comes close but Madeira as well competes in a whole different league from any single European island. The European islands gain on the annual average temps because of the much hotter summers, but winters are the real deal for coconuts and tropical plants, and in this scenario the Macaronesian Islands play in another world. 

These Mediterranean Islands share many climate features with Algarve (Portugal) and Andalucia (Spain) and also Sicily (Italy) fits in that description. But not Madeira nor the Canary Islands.

On a side note, your posts are appreciated but it's better to keep them on a separate thread! Even an "European coconut project" thread could be created so European people making these tryouts can show them! 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Alicante

[Maltese coconut project]

Definitely going further south in the northern hemisphere means warmer climate. But honestly speaking from my experience here in Malta, the temperatures are slightly warmer than stated on the monthly temperature Google search.. Also we have lots of sunny days (above 3000 hours of sunshine per year. Note that weather forecast temperatures are taken in the shade. Temperatures in the sun in winter here are mostly 21 degrees celcius when shade temperatures are between 16-18 degrees celcius. In fact my biggest 3 specimens still experienced growth of a new spear in winter but obviously much slower). But then having said that, I can speculate that Madeira and canary Islands are also significantly warmer than what is stated in their google search too.. 

[Pargomad]

Hey guys,

Google Street View just shared new udpated images (june 2021) of Madeira. We can see two new coconuts on one of the cocos in Paúl do Mar. Enjoy ! 

[Pargomad]

I also found a new coconut palm in Ponta do Sol at 100m above sea level. Enjoy ! 

[Pargomad]

Greetings, 

It seems I am the only one who is still active in this thread . I hope my contribution will bring more action into our group. I bring you more photos of Madeiran coconut palms. I've found two juvenile exemplars in a luxurious vacation house in Paúl do Mar (meu pé de cacao), where they grow a lot of tropical fruits like cacao, cashew or graviola:

 

I also want to share with you a recent photo of a tropical garden in a hotel in Funchal where you can see our already known coconut tree.

Enjoy !

[Maltese coconut project]

Very beautiful.. It's always good to learn and gather new data regarding coconut palms growing outside of the 23 degrees north and south of the equator 

[Cluster]

Hello everyone thank you all for your contributions!

My PC got broken, but I am back with more pictures:)

@Pargomad I did not know that one from Ponta do Sol, in this photography I can't really see that well how the coco looks, was it flowering? I have also been talking with the owner from that Paul do Mar house and indeed he has a lot of stuff. Like you said Graviola and even cacao and euterpe oleracea supposedly! The euterpe requires a more tropical climate than a coconut! I did my own experiment with a cacao in a pot and is working, it even grows leafs during the winter, but it does not tolerate wind so the trick is to get it in a sheltered place or create wind breaks.

With that said, here are some cocos from past year and this year:

Here are the Marina ones a bit before spring:

 

 

The small one is very trimmed as can be seen here:( it looked much better during the previous winter:

 

 

 

 

 

More pictures from the Marina:

 

 

On the bright side the one next to the dwarf was left much fuller during this year:

 

 

The biggest one has 3 coconuts!, I wonder if they will pick them up as usual since this one is very tall, it is perhaps the first time that I see successful pollination here:

 

The bad news is that our Marina will be revamped and the cocos may be removed. I was lucky enough to ask around to spare the coconuts, they might go to big pots (I guess similar to how they do in Puerto de Mogán) or moved to a nearby zone around the new Marina. I am crossing fingers that they will keep them. If they do, they may at least get irrigation which they don't currently have. I believe that in big pots they would get more soil then their current location as they are almost literally on top of the marina pebble rocks.

I will continue after with more pictures and reports from the island.

For the ones that have been trying to contact me I am sorry for the delay, besides not having a PC for a while, the camera is also not a possibility currently, but at least I have a better smartphone and it should still do the job well:)

Thank you and hope you enjoy.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Cluster

[Maltese coconut project]

Is it possible for the residents to contact the mayor so that during refurbishment, they will just go around the coconut trees and build the new setup around them? It will be a pity if they remove such beautiful trees 

[Pargomad]

Welcome back @Cluster !

Some of them really look beautiful, I didn't know they were rebuilding the whole area, I really hope they don't remove them... 

[Cluster]

15 hours ago, Maltese coconut project said:

Is it possible for the residents to contact the mayor so that during refurbishment, they will just go around the coconut trees and build the new setup around them? It will be a pity if they remove such beautiful trees 

I have spoken and in theory they will try to keep them in the new project, but they may have to move them to pots and one or two may go to a new part of the new garden there. The problem is that below them there are some pipes or something that they need to remove for the new project. I do not believe 99% people know those are coconuts and they are a bit neglected with no irrigation and over trimmed.

 

So a few more pictures around the coconuts on the island, these are also just before spring.

Starting with a single coconut near duas torres hotel, in a private residential area:

 

And now the one from Pestana Royal hotel:

 

 

Another hotel coco, the one in Penha de França Hotel:

 

By the way if anyone wants to see this one in real time, there is a webcam in youtube from the channel Madeira-Web, search for the live cam in Penha de França 

 

 

And finally here is the Almirante de Reis garden coco. As a reminder this coconut suffered 2 times, one after the fires in Funchal a few years ago when one of its fronds got burned and later on the irrigation was broken and the fronds started to shrink and shrink. Since 1 year and something ago, it has irrigation and it is growing much bigger fronds!

I expect this one to fully recover and become one of the most beautiful coconuts on the island, for having irrigation and the gardeners here do not over prune it, too bad it is far away from other potential pollinators. This is the area I suggested to move the Marina coconuts if needed, I doubt they would transport them this far though.

I also want to add that in general, these past 2 winters have been way too windy for Funchal standards! The fronds of all coconuts are looking way worse than other years due to this.

I have noticed that besides good soil for coconuts to thrive well there, you should be in a zone with low wind, optimally. They hate constant winter wind, the dry cooler winds in the winter dries the fronds and or tips prematurely, however if the wind is low (as it usually is there) they will not suffer even if it is cooler, that has been my observation, something that I do not see being shared. They take strong winds very well, but sustained dry winds for weeks with cooler temperatures, that they do not enjoy!

That is all for today folks!

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Cluster

[Cluster]

Hello everyone,

More pictures from the coconuts on the island.

Here is the coconut from Gaula somewhere in the previous year:

 

 

 

 

I love this coconut!

 

Next we have the only golden dwarf coconut (as far as I know), located in lugar de Baixo, Ponta do Sol.

From the previous winter:

 

And now just before this spring:

 

I believe this house does not have anything living there actively, but it might have irrigation or someone that goes there from time to time. I really like the colors:)

That is all for tonight!

[Maltese coconut project]

I am so astounded to see those coconuts on Madeira and many don't even have a wall behind them. When I search regarding the weather there it's marked quite low but I believe their weather station is situated in high altitude where temperatures are lower unlike the almost sea level positions of the coconut trees 

[Pargomad]

Beautiful! I would love to see one day the coastal area plenty of coconut trees just like in the Canary Islands. 

[Cluster]

On 4/13/2022 at 11:03 PM, Maltese coconut project said:

I am so astounded to see those coconuts on Madeira and many don't even have a wall behind them. When I search regarding the weather there it's marked quite low but I believe their weather station is situated in high altitude where temperatures are lower unlike the almost sea level positions of the coconut trees 

Madeira island has a lot of micro climates, we have coconuts up to 200 meter that look nice (I do not know any coconut above that). If you do a quick search on google for Funchal forecast, it is usually lower than the real temperature recorded in coastal area. The altitude is not the only factor, however, and having a big mountain wall that goes from east to west makes it prone to Foehn effect, where the winds that descent the mountains will heat up comparatively to what it was on the back side of such mountains. In case of Madeira, the prevailing winds, the trade winds, are usually blowing from the north east, affecting most southern coast when descending.

The temperatures registered in IPMA stations during the week show a lot of fluctuations:

 

However I believe the weather is warmer in many  of these places, for instance the Lido/Funchal station is very prone to temperature fluctuations based on wind direction, you see it spiking from super warm to cooler from one day to the other and even hourly, while Funchal/observatory is on average cooler but more consistent. Lugar de Baixo/Ponta do Sol is as warm as Lido on average, but more consistent usually.

Having spent the winter there and driving to many places I would say that sometimes Lido/Funchal would not reach 20 while the car was getting to 21/22 in some of these days and it felt warm. There is an amateur station that has been going "reliable" for many years that is more consistent and warmer than Lido: Personal Weather Station Dashboard | Weather Underground (wunderground.com)

I can't say if the station has the sensor protected from radiation, but I have seen a few days with no clouds where the temperature was below the official Lido station, so I would think the sensor is ok. I see more agreement with the car in this station than the Lido one. This one does not seem as exposed to certain winds and that would support the consistency that Lido lacks, the heat just has more time to build up due to the wind not picking up from the sea as an example, and thus the wind that comes from the mountains with less humidity and heat due to Foehn effect will prevail.

Just my observations and 2 cents, having been studying the plants and climate of the island for the past 8 years:)

Ps: If you search Lido Funchal weather on google and not just Funchal weather, it shows a closer representation to IPMA automatic forecast for Funchal.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Cluster

[Pargomad]

On 4/14/2022 at 12:03 AM, Maltese coconut project said:

I am so astounded to see those coconuts on Madeira and many don't even have a wall behind them. When I search regarding the weather there it's marked quite low but I believe their weather station is situated in high altitude where temperatures are lower unlike the almost sea level positions of the coconut trees 

Madeira's coastal climate has always been underestimated in my opinion.  For instance, here are the temperatures for the old observatory station these past 20 years. (for the 18 first years I used the official IPMA data retrieved from here: https://www.ipma.pt/pt/oclima/series.longas/list.jsp,  for the last two years I have been collecting the daily data from the same website):

As you can see, Funchal's climate is just about 1 degree short in the coldest months of the year to be considered as tropical.

We also know that there are warmer and more protected areas in the southern coast, so we could only imagine the potential there. Take a look at this little fishing village, sheltered by huge mountains and cliffs. 

Non traditional tropical fruits such as cocoa are said to be cultivated there:

Cocoa fruit in Paúl do Mar

@Cluster About the Ponta do Sol coconut tree, I found it on Google Street view, at about 100m and not far from the tall one we already know , just above the village of Ponta do Sol.  Here's the link: https://www.google.ch/maps/@32.682591,-17.1041547,3a,75y,86.76h,109.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9BEwNnGC1j2ccWEn7j5hXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=fr&authuser=0 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Pargomad

[Maltese coconut project]

I have a curious question. Is this screenshot real in terms of rainfall at Ponta do Sol? Are the coconut trees there artificially irrigated or no?  Surprisingly low rainfall for such trees 

[Pargomad]

Yes, it is accurate. They have to irrigate them during summer as they don't receive enough water. But lots of them, especially those that grow in public places aren't watered at all and that's a big problem. 

For the rest of the statement, the climate is classified as Csb with an average temperature of 16.5 °C only in higher altitudes. At sea level, the average temperature is definitely higher than 20°C and the climate there is a transition between Csa (Mediterranean climate) and As (tropical wet and dry climate). 

[Cluster]

@Pargomad Is that Cocoa fruit in the greenhouse or outside?

I believe some zones already belong to a cool tropical climate, ( even the IPMA stations like Lido and Ponta do Sol) especially if you consider the rounded version, 64f, as valid (64 f < 18 c).

The coconuts in Madeira should be given water as there is not enough during the late spring and summer months.