Ravenea Xerophila

[palm tree man]

I know that this is a very slow grower and that it has a root that reminds me of a cycad. I also know that despite its name it does not like to be dry all the time and does enjoy being watered regularly. What else do we know about it? Does anyone know anything that is not listed in Dave's Garden or on Palmpedia or in "An Encyclopedia of Cultivated Palms". This is a really cool palm in my opinion, some people prefer the other more lush Ravenea but I like this one because it is so different.

[tinman10101]

mine has survived 27F with no canopy for 10 hrs. i water mine constantly all summer and even gets supplemental watering from the lawn sprinklers. great cold hardy palm. my dypsis decipiens is right next to it and gets the same treatment. they both are getting quite large now.

cheers

tin

[palm tree man]

It is funny but I planted mine next to my dypsis decipiens as well! It is still very small but I love it! Thank you for thr reply.

[Sutter Bob]

This one definitely has some cold tolerance as a small plant. I have a handful growing here.

I added another one this year.

I might have lost my smallest seedling this winter. It was essentially unprotected.

Four look fine to me after a cold early December into the mid 20s but a fairly warm January.

Like Tin, I water mine a lot in the summer.

It appears to be better than rivularis and glauca here as far as I can tell.

It is on the slow side.

[Brad Mondel]

How cold hardy are they for you Palm tree man? How does dypsis Decepens do for you? What else do you have growing down that way? Thanks

[palm tree man]

The Dypsis Decipiens can handle cold fairly well or as much as we get here anyway. What you will have problem with is crown rot with the humidity that you have in Myrtle Beach; they don't like overhead watering and they don't like to have their roots disturbed. I have seen a Bismarkia Nobilis in a private garden in Charleston years ago and it was surviving. I have no idea how large it was when it was planted however or if it is there now. It was ten years ago when a friend showed it to me. Even as seedlings I am not afraid to leave a Dypsis Decipiens out in twenty five and above weather. A friend of mine that owns a nursery in Florida lived in a suburb south of Atlanta and grew Dypsis Decipiens there; when things got bad he had to use a tent with a heater though. It is a slow growing palm but eventually it will get too large to protect. It might be the only crownshaft palm that might have a real chance in Carolina though, it is one of the only ones that I am even attempting anymore. I lost allot of archontophoenix, etc. For most cold tolerant crownshaft palms the cut off temp wise is around 24 to 25 without serious damage. There are some chamordea that can handle zone 8b and they are small but technically have a crownshaft and are easy to protect. Another option would be something in the D. Baronii complex for two reasons and someone will probably disagree with me but in your situation they are easy to protect and many are clumpers so there is a good chance that they could regrow from their roots as long as your ground doesn't freeze. Long term will be tough and anything might have to be protected. If you have the room, I would grow Australian LIvistona like Decora, Nitida, and Marie. I personally like them and if you can grow W. Robusta you can grow these. They have allot of personality to me. Thanks again man and I hope that you have had a nice day.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

The Dypsis Decipiens can handle cold fairly well or as much as we get here anyway. What you will have problem with is crown rot with the humidity that you have in Myrtle Beach; they don't like overhead watering and they don't like to have their roots disturbed. I have seen a Bismarkia Nobilis in a private garden in Charleston years ago and it was surviving. I have no idea how large it was when it was planted however or if it is there now. It was ten years ago when a friend showed it to me. Even as seedlings I am not afraid to leave a Dypsis Decipiens out in twenty five and above weather. A friend of mine that owns a nursery in Florida lived in a suburb south of Atlanta and grew Dypsis Decipiens there; when things got bad he had to use a tent with a heater though. It is a slow growing palm but eventually it will get too large to protect. It might be the only crownshaft palm that might have a real chance in Carolina though, it is one of the only ones that I am even attempting anymore. I lost allot of archontophoenix, etc. For most cold tolerant crownshaft palms the cut off temp wise is around 24 to 25 without serious damage. There are some chamordea that can handle zone 8b and they are small but technically have a crownshaft and are easy to protect. Another option would be something in the D. Baronii complex for two reasons and someone will probably disagree with me but in your situation they are easy to protect and many are clumpers so there is a good chance that they could regrow from their roots as long as your ground doesn't freeze. Long term will be tough and anything might have to be protected. If you have the room, I would grow Australian LIvistona like Decora, Nitida, and Marie. I personally like them and if you can grow W. Robusta you can grow these. They have allot of personality to me. Thanks again man and I hope that you have had a nice day.

I was perusing the USDA map for Georgia, and it's got all of coastal Georgia as USDA 8b. There isn't even a hint of 9a anywhere until you get down into Florida. How is it that you manage to grow dypsis decipiens or ravena xerophila there? Do you have a heated greenhouse?

[palm tree man]

I have kept Xerophila protected and have only let it see a certain amount of cold. There are several Dypsis Decipiens growing along the Georgia coast. Even at our farm forty miles inland we did not see below 21 or 20 this year as harsh as it was. I have a few more maps that I can post later. The USDA zones for the South don't seem to be that accurate. Like in California there are many microclimates; especially along the coast. It is a good question they and many people have been growing plants not just palms here for years that are not in the right zone according to the old USDA maps. I do have a couple of sixty foot greenhouses on the farm that I built around 2000 but that is all right now. Things are tight for us with the poor economy and all.

[palm tree man]

https://www.arborday.org/media/mapchanges.cfm

Here is a link to the arbor day map and animated zone changes.

Here are a few more pics; I had some done by local universities but they are not as professional nor as crisp.

The coastal barrier islands region of Ga and a warm area inland around Savannah has been added to zone 9 after recompiling data and comparing trends.

For a long time all I would grow was Sabal Palmetto and Butia Capitata but when I tried palms that I brought home from Daytona and they actually lived and did well; I began to branch out.

The Southeast is an every changing area climate wise; if you don't like today's whether that is ok because it will be different tomorrow. It is totally normal to be able to go swimming in February here and not get

hypothermia. lol On the islands we don't see frost very often.

Sunset zones for us is 28

ZONE 26. Central and Interior Florida
Growing season: early Feb. to late Dec., with typically humid, warm to hot weather. Rain is plentiful all year, heaviest in summer and early fall. Lows range from 15 degrees F/-9 degrees C in the north to 27 degrees F/-3 degrees C in the south; arctic air brings periodic hard freezes.

ZONE 28. Gulf Coast, North Florida, Atlantic Coast to Charleston
Growing season: mid-Mar. to early Dec. Humidity and rainfall are year-round phenomena; summers are hot, winters virtually frostless but subject to periodic invasions by frigid arctic air. Azaleas, camellias, many subtropicals flourish.

ZONE 31. Interior Plains of Gulf Coast and Coastal Southeast
Growing season: mid-Mar. to early Nov. In this extensive east-west zone, hot and sticky summers contrast with chilly winters (record low temperatures are 7 degrees to 0 degrees F/-14 degrees to -18 degrees C). There's rain all year (an annual average of 50"), with the least falling in Oct.

http://www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zones/sunset-climate-zones-southeast-00400000036361/

[stevethegator]

I'd say the "sea islands" off the south Georgia coast are 9a despite what the map says. Queens and strelitzia are fairly common, and there are some large pothos vines and even an umbrella tree or two.

Those islands are probably warmer in terms of absolute minimums than Gainesville, FL, which is really more 8b despite being 9a on the map

Edited March 15, 2014 by stevethegator

[palm tree man]

Thank you Steve, it has been very difficult for anyone to embrace that on this forum. I can understand why honestly but we south of Savannah including Gainesville are below the 32 degree parallel which is below San Diego California on the same line. Even our farm is on the 31 degree parallel which places us closer to the Equator than San Diego. I have only been concerned with minimum temps and have monitored them for over twenty years and can totally support your statement buddy. Our heat, late freezes, and humidity though have been the key to the success of many palms and exotics that have gotten damaged during the winter. My records indicate that over the past eighteen years that it has not dipped below twenty degrees on my property inland or on the coast using three different forms of measurement in order to avoid conflict or error. Thank you again my friend.

[Sutter Bob]

Fairly similar low temperatures to what we have here but we have very little rain late spring through fall here plus 100 degree summer days so drier summer and fall conditions.

Queens, azaleas, camelias, birds of paradise all ok here in the right settings.

A few other interesting plants I've been happy with so far that aren't too commonly seen around here (growing near R. xerophila): Dasylirion longissimum, Sharkskin agave, Puya chilensis. Also Dypsis decipiens seems to like the same general conditions as R. xerophila here (partial overhead canopy). One of my more promising shade loving companion plants here is Lapageria.

I'm interested to hear more about what's growing there.

[The7thLegend]

I'd say the "sea islands" off the south Georgia coast are 9a despite what the map says. Queens and strelitzia are fairly common, and there are some large pothos vines and even an umbrella tree or two.

Those islands are probably warmer in terms of absolute minimums than Gainesville, FL, which is really more 8b despite being 9a on the map

Probably close. I travel the Jax-L.C.-Gainesville corridor often and there are many established 9a palms as far north as Lake City.

[The7thLegend]

I could say even as far north as Jasper, FL along I-75. There is a large palm nursery that has unprotected field grown Sylvestris.

[palm tree man]

I think I know where that nursery is off 75. Sylvestris is used a great deal for landscapes in our area.

[edbrown_III]

P. sylvestris in Jax survived the 83 and 85 event as did the P. dactylifera , carnariensis, and some of the clumping hybrid type Phoenixs . Probably saw 12 F down town or lower. I watched them closely then and saw some green appear in July ---- These were very big trees most of the Phoenix in Riverside survived as well.

Some of these marginal palms you can grow but have to be willing to cover every 2 years or so --- I have D. decaryi and Jubeopsis -- fairly large trees but you have to canopy protect in time ------ theres a whole hill side of R. exerophila in Montgomery on the Miami oolite rock face. Just beautiful ---

Best regards

Ed

[palm tree man]

Thanks Bob, I have not had much luck with any King palm in the ground; not even Maxima but it was very small and not all that healthy either. Aussie Livistona like Decora "Decipiens", Marie, and Nitida. Decora is a very fast grower for me and has outpaced any Washingtonia that I have every had. They seemingly love my soil. Of course I have mules and a Tim Hopper Jubutiayagrus. Brahea Sp. Super Silver has done well. All my Sabals do well; though I would like to try Yapa again at some point. Allagoptera campestris does very well for me. Phoenix Sylvestris does better than phoenix canariensis' it seems to just be healthier though we have many canaries all over the islands. Phoenix Rupicola surprisingly is one of my favorites and will burn but seems to do alright. It is hardier for me than Phoenix Roebellenii which does survive here with some burn but comes back strong when it warms up. They planted fifty or more Canaries on Jekyll island about five years ago. Many of my seed grown palms died do to a mishap in the greenhouse and I had some nice Copernicia and others that I was going to plant out once they were a good hefty five gallon size. Anything Butia does well; I have Yatay, Eriospatha, and several forms of Capitata "might be odorata and others". Most of my Butia were saved from demolition jobs and are pretty old. Some of the others like Dypsis Heteromorpha, I regretfully had to sale do to financial problems when the construction industry took a nose dive. I really wanted to try Heteromorpha at some point. I was 8 for 10 germinating Caffra but sold all 8 and that was in 2003; I regret selling them everytime I think about it but I really had to at the time. Cycas Media, Panz, Taitungensis, and Diannanensis have done well for me as well as Macrozamias and many different Encephalartos including horridus have also done well. What are you currently growing?

[Sutter Bob]

Thanks for all the info Daniel. It appears we have fairly similar growing environments.

Sorry for derailing the thread.

Kings (cunninghamiana)ok under a tall pine tree here, others next to south side of house get very beat up in winter. All others die.

I am new to Phoenix rupicola but it appears to be borderline here. One with some protection seems to be doing ok. I don't think they'll do well in the open. Phoenix roebellini barely makes it for me without cover but there are some growing near here which have survived many years and look pretty good (on a busy road with lots of auto exhaust). I've got what I think is a reclinata doing well. My only Livistona is chinensis, which is new this winter. Will have to try some more Livistona. The chinensis survived transplantation in January with no problems.

Brahea armata and clara thrive here. I lost a small super silver but might try again some time. A decumbens seems to have settled in. My first trial of Jubaeopsis caffra failed but I plan to try again. My one mule looks very good. I'm afraid I might have lost a Sabal uresana this winter after a couple of years of growth - not sure why. Causarium and minor doing fine. Beccariophoenix alfredii only make it in shade (cover) here.

I'm getting ready to transplant a Parajubaea torallyi from shade (doing great) to sun where I've lost some. Queens, Washies, CIDP, Sylvestris, Butia all thrive here. I'm hopeful for protected D. baronii, onilahensis and ambositrae and semi-protected D. decipiens and betafaka (they seem morphologically distinct to me). Chamaedorea radicalis very tough. Rhopies under shade growing.

Chamaerops are fine.

I have lost many 1 gal Bismarcks over the years but a 15 gallon I planted at New Year is off and running after an 80 degree weekend. Fingers crossed.

I've lost many palms here (D. nauseosa, pembana, leptocheilos, Oraniopsis, onilahensis, B. hapala to name a few but there are probably still many that will make it here which have not yet been tried.

Dioon edule ok here, C. revoluta all over - hope to try more cycads.

Wish me continued luck for R. xerophila. I did lose my smallest seedling. Other five are growing.

[palm tree man]

I will and no worries. I am not like that my threads are like the palms we grow "constantly adapting and changing" . The subject matter is just a beggining. I would always try to push my students at the University by opening the floor with a great question and then let it evolve and grow. We learn through discussion and through questioning what we know. I am just appreciative for your response and your intellect. Thank you again.

Edited March 19, 2014 by palm tree man

[Brad Mondel]

Thanks for this discussion. I can use your experiences as a guide for myself. I purchased a pretty large chamaedorea radicalis a few weeks back and I'm going to plant it under canopy. I'm also going to try santa Catarina queen, mule, and T. Wagnerianus. My large robustas are already growing back but the smaller one didn't make it through the cold and excessive moisture. I still want to try D. Decepiens but I can't find that palm anywhere!

[Brad Mondel]

Do you have a source for D.D?

Edited March 29, 2014 by ArchAngeL01

[palm tree man]

I actually do. PM me and I will give it to you. Washingtonia is a gateway species for us in the south. If you can grow it there successfully there are other palms that will survive most winters in your climate. You should seriously try Livistonas. I know they are not Dypsis but I personally love them. They have a ton of personality and are very tough and durable while maintaining much of a "Tropical" appeal.

[Phoenikakias]

Thanks Bob, I have not had much luck with any King palm in the ground; not even Maxima but it was very small and not all that healthy either. Aussie Livistona like Decora "Decipiens", Marie, and Nitida. Decora is a very fast grower for me and has outpaced any Washingtonia that I have every had. They seemingly love my soil. Of course I have mules and a Tim Hopper Jubutiayagrus. Brahea Sp. Super Silver has done well. All my Sabals do well; though I would like to try Yapa again at some point. Allagoptera campestris does very well for me. Phoenix Sylvestris does better than phoenix canariensis' it seems to just be healthier though we have many canaries all over the islands. Phoenix Rupicola surprisingly is one of my favorites and will burn but seems to do alright. It is hardier for me than Phoenix Roebellenii which does survive here with some burn but comes back strong when it warms up. They planted fifty or more Canaries on Jekyll island about five years ago. Many of my seed grown palms died do to a mishap in the greenhouse and I had some nice Copernicia and others that I was going to plant out once they were a good hefty five gallon size. Anything Butia does well; I have Yatay, Eriospatha, and several forms of Capitata "might be odorata and others". Most of my Butia were saved from demolition jobs and are pretty old. Some of the others like Dypsis Heteromorpha, I regretfully had to sale do to financial problems when the construction industry took a nose dive. I really wanted to try Heteromorpha at some point. I was 8 for 10 germinating Caffra but sold all 8 and that was in 2003; I regret selling them everytime I think about it but I really had to at the time. Cycas Media, Panz, Taitungensis, and Diannanensis have done well for me as well as Macrozamias and many different Encephalartos including horridus have also done well. What are you currently growing?

Since you own a greenhouse, I can reveal you a secret for growing Jubaeopsis caffra from seed to outplantable size within only three to four years...

[smithgn]

https://www.arborday.org/media/mapchanges.cfm

Here is a link to the arbor day map and animated zone changes.

Here are a few more pics; I had some done by local universities but they are not as professional nor as crisp.

The coastal barrier islands region of Ga and a warm area inland around Savannah has been added to zone 9 after recompiling data and comparing trends.

For a long time all I would grow was Sabal Palmetto and Butia Capitata but when I tried palms that I brought home from Daytona and they actually lived and did well; I began to branch out.

The Southeast is an every changing area climate wise; if you don't like today's whether that is ok because it will be different tomorrow. It is totally normal to be able to go swimming in February here and not get

hypothermia. lol On the islands we don't see frost very often.

Sunset zones for us is 28

ZONE 26. Central and Interior Florida

Growing season: early Feb. to late Dec., with typically humid, warm to hot weather. Rain is plentiful all year, heaviest in summer and early fall. Lows range from 15 degrees F/-9 degrees C in the north to 27 degrees F/-3 degrees C in the south; arctic air brings periodic hard freezes.

ZONE 28. Gulf Coast, North Florida, Atlantic Coast to Charleston

Growing season: mid-Mar. to early Dec. Humidity and rainfall are year-round phenomena; summers are hot, winters virtually frostless but subject to periodic invasions by frigid arctic air. Azaleas, camellias, many subtropicals flourish.

ZONE 31. Interior Plains of Gulf Coast and Coastal Southeast

Growing season: mid-Mar. to early Nov. In this extensive east-west zone, hot and sticky summers contrast with chilly winters (record low temperatures are 7 degrees to 0 degrees F/-14 degrees to -18 degrees C). There's rain all year (an annual average of 50"), with the least falling in Oct.

http://www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zones/sunset-climate-zones-southeast-00400000036361/

I have recently been searching for where this 9A really begins as I thought through my understanding that 9A could start at the southeastern tip of South Carolina and travel down the coast of Georgia and of course into Florida. I've never understood why the USDA cold hardiness maps have had it listed as an 8B. For example, I haven't spent a whole lot of time in Hilton Head Island as far as palms go (I did see numerous CIDP at some car dealerships), but with the southern point that it possesses, proximity to the coast AND the fact that it is completely surround by water should render it a 9A. For such a large landmass that should not be considered a microclimate, it should show up on the USDA. Speaking of the heat island effect, two weather stations in Columbia, SC have reported to not have gotten down below 15 degrees after this past dreadful winter. 8B right there as opposed to the 8A it is assigned.

Glad someone has looked into this as I have, although, you've done it to a much more scientific backing extent haha. But as for Savannah, I agree in that it should be a zone 9, and that's not even including the heat island effect.

Thanks for this discussion. I can use your experiences as a guide for myself. I purchased a pretty large chamaedorea radicalis a few weeks back and I'm going to plant it under canopy. I'm also going to try santa Catarina queen, mule, and T. Wagnerianus. My large robustas are already growing back but the smaller one didn't make it through the cold and excessive moisture. I still want to try D. Decepiens but I can't find that palm anywhere!

Let me know how your radicalis' go. I just put some of mine in ground next to my house.

[Brad Mondel]

Will do Smith. I also planted mine next to the house. They will get adequate moisture and shade there. Mine is a very old 7 gallon with creeping trunks. It already has seeds that I will save and grow if the squirrels don't get them before I do.

[palm tree man]

I think that they should be ok for you guys; there are some in Atlanta and it gets really cold there at times. The Low Country and Coastal Plain of South Carolina stay pretty warm and pleasant. Planting close to your home or even under the eve of your house not only protects them from frost but the foundation gives off heat keeping the roots and lower trunk warmer. If you have a brick or masonry home the masonry material naturally also gives off heat absorbed during the day if it was warm or sunny before the temperature drop late at night or very early in the morning which is when we usually receive our cold, unusually harsh weather. You can really feel the heat being released especially on a sun facing south wall. Thank you all for your comments and your kindness.

[palm tree man]

I would like to thank everyone for their contributions to this thread.

[smithgn]

Will do Smith. I also planted mine next to the house. They will get adequate moisture and shade there. Mine is a very old 7 gallon with creeping trunks. It already has seeds that I will save and grow if the squirrels don't get them before I do.

Wow, a big one. That's my goal, a trunk. I have no idea if the two I have are the trunking type or the clustering type.

I think that they should be ok for you guys; there are some in Atlanta and it gets really cold there at times. The Low Country and Coastal Plain of South Carolina stay pretty warm and pleasant. Planting close to your home or even under the eve of your house not only protects them from frost but the foundation gives off heat keeping the roots and lower trunk warmer. If you have a brick or masonry home the masonry material naturally also gives off heat absorbed during the day if it was warm or sunny before the temperature drop late at night or very early in the morning which is when we usually receive our cold, unusually harsh weather. You can really feel the heat being released especially on a sun facing south wall. Thank you all for your comments and your kindness.

If it can grow in Atlanta, then I agree, I think we'll be okay. My Chamaedoreas face the rising sun, so hopefully that morning sun can warm those bricks up enough so they can be released at night- not sure how all that goes. One thing I like about having these next to the house is if it gets real bad this coming winter (like this past one), I can easily assemble tarps and sheets to cover from overhead by abutting whatever protection I have against the house; by nailing it or even taping it. That way I wont have the weight of the snow and ice accumulation weighing down on the sheet/tarp to where its crushing my palms. Sadly, this happened to a CIDP I had.

Certainly some good info in this thread. Thank you for providing valuable information, as well.

[palm tree man]

This really did turn out to be a good thread, I was surprised. Initially I was just trying to get more information on Ravenea Xero. You are welcome and let me know if I can help and feel free to post any experiences that you have had that we can learn from as well. Thanks again!

[stevethegator]

Radicalis died here in Atlanta at 7F in a pot on my patio. I didn't protect it at all and it froze solid for three days haha. The poor thing was dead before it even thawed out (although still vibrabrantly green, go figure). They may have survived had they been in ground with a heavy leaf mulch or other protection.

Surprisingly, the palm that does best here (besides needles and minors) is sabal palmetto. Less damage on most of those around town than on mature trachies, all things being equal.

Butias for the most part are toast now. All are 100% defoliated, maybe 30-50% will recover if the owners leave them alone and we have a couple warm winters that allow them to re-establish their crowns

[Sutter Bob]

I don't think I've lost a single radicalis here yet (about six growing).

Sabal tamaulipas growing well here - we'll see how it compares to minor.

My official lows rarely get below 20 here. Low 20s not too uncommon.

[smithgn]

Radicalis died here in Atlanta at 7F in a pot on my patio. I didn't protect it at all and it froze solid for three days haha. The poor thing was dead before it even thawed out (although still vibrabrantly green, go figure). They may have survived had they been in ground with a heavy leaf mulch or other protection.

Surprisingly, the palm that does best here (besides needles and minors) is sabal palmetto. Less damage on most of those around town than on mature trachies, all things being equal.

Butias for the most part are toast now. All are 100% defoliated, maybe 30-50% will recover if the owners leave them alone and we have a couple warm winters that allow them to re-establish their crowns

It's crazy how much more hardy the radicalis is compared to the rest of its family. The Microspadix is second in line in terms of cold hardiness and there's still a relatively large gap between the two as far as minimum temperatures go. Surprisingly, Butias got hit pretty hard here as well. I haven't seen any with 100% defoliation but many show obvious signs of burn. For some reason I thought Butias would be more cold hardy than the Sabals, or just as hardy. I suppose the wet winter is what puts the Butias to a disadvantage around here in the southeast.

[palm tree man]

Radicalis is pretty tough I have been shocked and its leaves still look fairly delicate and tropical in appearance unlike many other cold hardy palms. The variety with a trunk is a definite winner; I love them. On the Sabal note; I have never seen a palmetto with any damage here or any of the other native species. They usually die from natural causes or if in the landscape from transplantation or disease. Palmetto is a tough palm once it is established. Butia is hardy but this winter was very unusual in the south our temps didn't rocket back up to the normal range and it stayed much cooler much longer not giving them there usual boost in growth. There are butia capitata and other mislabeled butia all over the coast that are seventy or eighty years old or possibly older and many have offspring all around them. I haven't done any research into the ages; I just know that my father said they were already there and had trunks when he was a little boy. Bob what all are you growing? Have you had any other successes my friend? I have some seedlings for tamaulipas and I am chomping at the bit to plant them but they are still slightly too small.