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Palm Surgery - Need Photos


_Keith

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All across the Northern Gulf Coast people are coming to grips with palm damage. At least one article said, "A sign that a palm is dead is when the spear leaf in the center of a palm canopy can be pulled out of the bud or heart." We all know for sure that is not true.

I would like to write and submit an article about saving palms, talking first about fungicide treatment after spear pull, and then about palm surgery in extreme cases. Pretty sure I can cover the subject matter, but I welcome input. What I don't have is some good photos.

Does anyone have, or know of some really good before and after photos on the subjects above, particularly on palm surgery?

This could help a lot of folks to not to kill palms that may actually survive.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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All across the Northern Gulf Coast people are coming to grips with palm damage. At least one article said, "A sign that a palm is dead is when the spear leaf in the center of a palm canopy can be pulled out of the bud or heart." We all know for sure that is not true.

I would like to write and submit an article about saving palms, talking first about fungicide treatment after spear pull, and then about palm surgery in extreme cases. Pretty sure I can cover the subject matter, but I welcome input. What I don't have is some good photos.

Does anyone have, or know of some really good before and after photos on the subjects above, particularly on palm surgery?

This could help a lot of folks to not to kill palms that may actually survive.

I'll be taking photos of the process and writing an article soon. The palm that has pulled is really small and will likely die if it another severe cold spell occurs here. I've already wrote one about copper fungicide treatment.

Zone 7a/b Delaware

Unusual Plants

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Hey Keith, I don't have "before" photos because I usually don't memorialize dead palms. But I do have photos of the progress of a Coccothrinax in my Caribbean Garden. Its spear had pulled and I had nothing to lose by cutting through the stem to reach live tissue. What amazed me was, even though Coccos are slow growing, this palm started pushing new growth less than 24 hours after surgery.

This first set of photos was taken 2/3/14 and show the palm trying to push out a couple of cut leaves.

post-1349-0-83702500-1392517968_thumb.jp post-1349-0-60228800-1392517993_thumb.jp

I took this next set of photos today, 2/15/14. The sawn-off leaves have started to open. Better yet, the palm seems to be pushing a complete new spear.

post-1349-0-11004300-1392518168_thumb.jp post-1349-0-78535300-1392518190_thumb.jp

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Hope you can use them.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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I'll be your huckleberry.....lots of photo's coming soon....

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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I'll be your huckleberry.....lots of photo's coming soon....

:rant: Probably be doing a bit of it myself.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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post-97-0-10492900-1392526139_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-78442400-1392526214_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-81182100-1392526281_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-40742700-1392526340_thumb.jpg

Surgical Tools

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Fronds are collapsing on both queen fronds....100% defoliation. I use the loppers to cut off all the fronds and check the spear(growing point). It is holding tight after several hard pulls. A little bit of green in the petiole gives a small amount of hope along with the tight spear. Will not perform surgery yet on these palms. I do pour generous amounts of Hydrogen peroxide down along the growing point.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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You are getting started early David. The way this year has gone, I think I'll wait another couple of weeks.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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post-97-0-95952800-1392527299_thumb.jpg

This is where you pour the peroxide which will help kill the rot.

Sorry about the sideways photo's ....my wife should know better than to hold the camera vertically.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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post-97-0-82629100-1392527662_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-77319800-1392527717_thumb.jpg

The small queen has a bizarre color ..... but the spear is tight...we shall see.

Keith...when it comes to rotting palms....better not wait. I'm finding the sooner you take action after a spear pull...the less you have to cut. When the rot is allowed to fester within the trunk, it starts spreading to the next layer of frond stems around the growing point...these begin to pull out and the depth of the hole goes further down the inside of the trunk.....no best to hit it early and get the cavity cleaned out so it doesn't hold any water.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Ok...next up is one of 3 R. excelsa that had spear pulls. I don't thing surgery is going to save the trunks on these but I have never had any luck with trunk survival in the past pulling the spears alone.post-97-0-76450100-1392528600_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-15257100-1392528679_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-96192600-1392528722_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-31666800-1392528776_thumb.jpg

The first few cuts showed dead tissue...kept cutting down until it looked alive.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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post-97-0-75188700-1392529037_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-65885500-1392529098_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-79014500-1392529151_thumb.jpg

Apply the peroxide

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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This next set of pictures is very painfully to see .....this is or was my beautiful A. wrightii. The largest stems all have spear pulls . When I was cutting the trunks , water that was trapped down in the trunk

was flying out everywhere. Each spear hole had about a half cup of water ...rotting everything from the inside out.post-97-0-04444600-1392529896_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-21891100-1392529972_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-25926000-1392530040_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-71101600-1392530098_thumb.jpg

As you can see....I waited too long to deal with the spear pull...subsequently the next inside layer of palm fronds were also rotted and the hole was even deeper. I had to keep cutting down past the hole to good wood.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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This next set of pictures is very painfully to see .....this is or was my beautiful A. wrightii. The largest stems all have spear pulls . When I was cutting the trunks , water that was trapped down in the trunk

was flying out everywhere. Each spear hole had about a half cup of water ...rotting everything from the inside out.attachicon.gif20140215_105518.jpgattachicon.gif20140215_110023.jpgattachicon.gif20140215_110132.jpgattachicon.gif20140215_110145.jpg

I think I just shed a few tears looking at those pictures.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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post-97-0-37984300-1392530527_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-51936800-1392530579_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-24398200-1392530646_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-93180300-1392530716_thumb.jpg

As you can see in the last picture....don't be fooled by green fronds .....the inside is rotten.

When you cut the trunks...be sure to cut at an angle so that water does not sit on the surface of the stump.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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One final shot of my "new" A. wrightii. ...post-97-0-79367800-1392531354_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-65398500-1392531407_thumb.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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One final shot of my "new" A. wrightii. ...attachicon.gif20140215_112624.jpgattachicon.gif20140215_112635.jpg

That's not too bad.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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It will recover from the base, but the big question is....will the 4-6 foot stems recover from extreme amputation....time will tell.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Keith, I am really sorry I had not taken any shots of my Coccothrinax miraguama that spear pulled. I did not have though to make palm surgery to save it, I had instead poured in the gap fosetyl in powder form. Just the way I had at same time worked on my Bismarckia (you can find plenty pics of it in this forum). Both plants finally recovered. My method does not work (and I doubt if any method woks anyway), when it comes to bud rot through poisoning by herbicides, but in latter case I fear that meristem is first to be affected and killed...

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Well since you said it didn't look bad enough...I pulled the rest of the spears today. What do you think now? ...lol....a friend traded me some stuff. I thinking about putting a Trachyocarpus martianus nearby. Also got a Rhapidophyllum hystrix that might go well in that area also. Just remember, even if the palms has nice green leaves...it can still be rotten on the inside. post-97-0-49379000-1392614162_thumb.jpg

Here is the new look .....

Noticed a couple of the trunks still had some rot ....cut them down further. post-97-0-77118000-1392614372_thumb.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Luckily the C. alba's spear is still tight....gave it some peroxide anyway.post-97-0-12918400-1392614724_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-14245100-1392614776_thumb.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Luckily the C. alba's spear is still tight....gave it some peroxide anyway.attachicon.gif20140215_113528.jpgattachicon.gif20140215_113655.jpg

Still too early to tell for sure, but my 3 little C.alba seedlings still have some green at the base and tight spears. If they make it, they be the big surprise in my betting pool.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Even the big ponytail did not escape the winter fury. post-97-0-25575900-1392615012_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-14870600-1392615077_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-91665800-1392615132_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-36038700-1392615198_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-45584500-1392615423_thumb.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Luckily the C. alba's spear is still tight....gave it some peroxide anyway.attachicon.gif20140215_113528.jpgattachicon.gif20140215_113655.jpg

I really hate to make bad prediction but I have to be also honest. The appearance of this new growth does not look healthy to me (so far a picture can help to conclusions) and in your place I would not enhance moisture inside the trunk by pouring hydrogen peroxide.

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I lost a nice Ponytail in the 2010 freeze. Wasn't quite as nice as yours.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Kon....yes it is a bit of a quagmire as to whether or not to pour H2O2 down into the crownshaft as we both know it will change pretty quickly to H2O. However, my weather has been pleasantly dry and warm the past several days and I think that moisture will be absorbed and/or evaporate fairly quickly. It does bring up a good point in that the application of peroxide should probably be done in the morning to give the palm a chance to absorb/evaporate the peroxide. Excess moisture in the crown is bad for sure.

The spear was burned during the cold events...this is not new growth...that is why it doesn't look very healthy. I really do not want to "operate" on any palms that have an intact spear ...I will keep checking for spear pulls throughout the garden.

Keith, did your ponytail exhibit a mushy stem? This one still seems very firm.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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No....good point...if it doesn't start to grow with the return of warm weather, may still be rot even if the spear doesn't pull....then an operation is in order.

I'll be in the company of the greats at that point..............post-97-0-48040100-1392677387_thumb.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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No....good point...if it doesn't start to grow with the return of warm weather, may still be rot even if the spear doesn't pull....then an operation is in order.

I'll be in the company of the greats at that point..............attachicon.gifArborists-3,-Kallista,-VIC,-09_07_2008.jpg

So, David on my medium queen I clear the rot about 5 feet off the ground to solid tissue, but no green. About 4 inches of caliper at that height. Whatcha think?

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Maybe.....tentatively.....take some pictures, we love to see palm butchery.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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This is very sad but peroxide has done well for me. I learned that technique from this website and it's saved me a lot of palms.

Thus far I've pulled spears on a young pheonix hybrid, wagnerianus , butia, and my washingtonias are rotting now. I applied peroxide to all of them and they bubbled like mad. This shows that the palm is indeed infected. Don't give up on any of your palms because My butia spear pulled last season and it made a full recovery.

My technique is to soak the entire plant in peroxide, the crown, trunk and the soil. I believe the fungus can remain in the leaf bases and in the soil. I tested

this theory by spraying an infected palms trunk and root zone first. Bubbles ensued. Also, I leave green leaves intact if possible, the plant will push out new leaves without total defoliation.

I will take pictures. As trachcarpus and butia aren't as rare, it's still nice to know a good technique.

Edited by ArchAngeL01

Los Angeles, CA and Myrtle Beach, SC.

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If bud rot has been already initialized, the sooner the spear pull the better! Give this poor Copernicia a more thorough tug and more frequently!

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Brad, sorry to hear about your plants....I'm interested in seeing how your results turn out as well. I had a small Butia or hybrid? from Mark Heath that the spear pulled last year. I didn't cut anything off and applied peroxide....it eventually came back as well. Of course all of the surrounding leaves were still green and healthy looking.

Kos....took your advice and went and tugged and pulled, and pulled and tugged....that spear is not budging....just waiting for enough warm weather to push new growth. Daytime temps are only in the low 70's (21-22 C.) and nights are only in the upper 50's and low 60's (15-18 C.) so I'm not sure it is warm enough to start pushing new growth. We need some real heat.

What I'm really worried about is my big queens. The spears are so big it is hard to really pull on them at the top of a tall ladder. I'm prepared to start butchering them, but will wait a while longer.

I know it is probably different for different species, but does anyone know what temperature new growth can be expected to start occurring?

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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If you have had already two weeks with daily and long lasting highs of 21-22 C, you should have already observed some new growth on spear. Mark it, as it has been suggested by others.

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Neighbor asked me to operate on her 3 roebelini. I told her that I didn't have much hope but we had nothing to lose as the palms centers were rotting out. I cut until clean tissue but a few of the stems continue to deteriorate. ...so cut more. She has been applying peroxide daily. post-97-0-55867400-1392859094_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-27653400-1392859140_thumb.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Dead duck. Gulf coast nurseries are gonna make some big money this spring.

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In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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I have unfortunately (for the palms) to agree with Keith. Roebelenii are easy growers and easy diers as well. I have learned this the hard way a decade ago...

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