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Polar Vortex vs. Large Palms in Zone 9a


Alicehunter2000

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post-97-0-57154200-1417631313_thumb.jpg A brutal look at what is left of the large B. recurvata (ponytail)...alive but damaged badly. The recent 25 degree temps didn't help the new growth any.

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The big L. nitida did about the best of all the Livistonia but was brutally attacked by grasshoppers over the summer

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Here is A. wrightii. ....from the roots in one summerpost-97-0-92269700-1417633023_thumb.jpgThe little fried sylvestris came back from complete defoliation.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Mules are all doing fine....

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David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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The place looked a lot better before our recent freeze....all the seasonal stuff is brown....waiting for spring.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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These smaller palms did great with just a sheet. C. microspadix, Rhapis fat n stubby variety, A. engleri, Dwarf Rhapis,

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David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Bizmarkia did great! Minimal protection.

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David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Very cool L. Nitida. I've got high hopes for two that I have. They grow like weeds and thrive off the heat and humidity. How tall is yours and how old?

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Now that you mentioned it, I need to go see if mine is still alive. The Lemon Grass was trying to swallow it.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Smith...not sure on age...bought them big...they handled 20 degrees ultimate low and almost 48 hours below 32 degrees. I would imagine it could take a few hours in the teens....not sure about 8a temps though. Probably as hardy as Chinese...maybe mor

e.post-97-0-66770800-1417654608_thumb.jpg

Zeeth...ran out and snapped pick of my favorite DD ...already showing adult leaf. Took 25 already...no protection

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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D. cabadae and C. macrocarpa. ...tarp and heat when temps go below freezing

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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All Queens and Copernicia alba's...... no survivorspost-97-0-91585800-1417655391_thumb.jpgpost-97-0-64102700-1417655424_thumb.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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All Queens and Copernicia alba's...... no survivorsattachicon.gif20141203_190811.jpgattachicon.gif20141203_081929.jpg

What, first you steal my C. alba, and then you kill it, too. Well, that's a fine howdy doo.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Smith...not sure on age...bought them big...they handled 20 degrees ultimate low and almost 48 hours below 32 degrees. I would imagine it could take a few hours in the teens....not sure about 8a temps though. Probably as hardy as Chinese...maybe mor

e.attachicon.gif20141203_185259.jpg

Zeeth...ran out and snapped pick of my favorite DD ...already showing adult leaf. Took 25 already...no protection

Looks like they've grown at a pretty decent clip. Mine grows slowly so far but I'm going to be planting it soon. I'm conflicted about planting it now or waiting until spring. I think it might be alright to plant before winter because it's so hardy but you never know...

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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Smith...not sure on age...bought them big...they handled 20 degrees ultimate low and almost 48 hours below 32 degrees. I would imagine it could take a few hours in the teens....not sure about 8a temps though. Probably as hardy as Chinese...maybe mor

e.attachicon.gif20141203_185259.jpg

Zeeth...ran out and snapped pick of my favorite DD ...already showing adult leaf. Took 25 already...no protection

Looks like they've grown at a pretty decent clip. Mine grows slowly so far but I'm going to be planting it soon. I'm conflicted about planting it now or waiting until spring. I think it might be alright to plant before winter because it's so hardy but you never know...

In 9b, I'd go now without hesitation.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Smith...not sure on age...bought them big...they handled 20 degrees ultimate low and almost 48 hours below 32 degrees. I would imagine it could take a few hours in the teens....not sure about 8a temps though. Probably as hardy as Chinese...maybe mor

e.attachicon.gif20141203_185259.jpg

Zeeth...ran out and snapped pick of my favorite DD ...already showing adult leaf. Took 25 already...no protection

Looks like they've grown at a pretty decent clip. Mine grows slowly so far but I'm going to be planting it soon. I'm conflicted about planting it now or waiting until spring. I think it might be alright to plant before winter because it's so hardy but you never know...

In 9b, I'd go now without hesitation.

Noted. I'll plant them this weekend. I've got a spot at the top of a slope that's the only place in the yard that the sprinklers don't reach, so I think it's pretty ideal.

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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Keith your alba was a wimp ...... mine were much stronger they just fell on unfortunate times.....lol

The curious thing about the 7 DD are planted is the best one Is in complete shade on the north side of the house. The other decent growes are in dappled shade. one is getting overhead water from a neighbor. ...doesn't seem to affect it much.

The two that are having the hardest time are the two with the least overhead protection. One got burnt from the recent cold and the other dried out and is struggling to stay alive. Don't think it is the sun as much as air pockets around the red lava rock and sand root zone.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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alllright, David. Bizmarkia is alive. How much frost? How cold? What protection. I had written off Bizamrkia for my yard and was going for sabal bermudana instead. But.... after your experience..... :hmm:

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From what I understand it has been hit or miss with Bismarkia. In general as you know...mo silver mo better. 7 Bizzy's that I know of experienced the Polar Vortex and subsequent Great Ice Freeze last year.

All Bismarkia survived!

The largest was covered by a tarp...pretty much no added heat...figured it experienced 20 degrees for a few hours with no frost under tarp.

The second largest was under high canopy water oak in my old house....it experienced probably 22 degrees for a few hours as Panama City was a bit warmer than my location.

The third largest the smaller one in the picture above got a thin cotton sheet covering during the freezes....it had very little damage.

The forth, fifth, sixth and seventh were all from the same seed batchs (2 different trees) as the third. The one at my office got covered by a plastic trash can. Another at a neighbors got covered by a sheet. The rest had absolutely no protection and were fully exposed. The exposed ones got burned but have fully recovered. Maybe the frost/freezing rain was the culprit for the burn.

All of these survived almost 48 hours of temps below 32 degrees (freezing) !!

Most all queens around town and the beaches died during these freezes...there were a few straggly survivors that have still not regained their crowns. My experience is that Bismarkia is a degree or two more cold hardy than your average queen palm. I know others might disagree....and it may be because of the North Florida sand that they grow so well....we have unbelievable drainage....almost too much for most palms and plants.

Anyway, Bismarkia is one palm that even if it is lost to some crazy weather event....they are worth the trouble because of their beauty and speed of growth. If I lost every one of them....I would buy more and plant them again.....can't say that about many palms.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Well, there you have it. Seems like Bizmarkia would be a go under high canopy. At the edge of a live oak spread where it would get enough sun. They will grow in shade based on Jim in Los Altos.

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Alice- Gotcha I have 2 in 5 gallon pots that have taken in the low 20's but I wont yet let them try any lower than that. How in the heck does it get into the teens where you live?! I had to look up where Seacrest Beach, Florida was and I thought you were on the gulf coast, but I never would have though that you get that low of temperatures being right near the Atlantic!

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From what I understand it has been hit or miss with Bismarkia. In general as you know...mo silver mo better. 7 Bizzy's that I know of experienced the Polar Vortex and subsequent Great Ice Freeze last year.

All Bismarkia survived!

The largest was covered by a tarp...pretty much no added heat...figured it experienced 20 degrees for a few hours with no frost under tarp.

The second largest was under high canopy water oak in my old house....it experienced probably 22 degrees for a few hours as Panama City was a bit warmer than my location.

The third largest the smaller one in the picture above got a thin cotton sheet covering during the freezes....it had very little damage.

The forth, fifth, sixth and seventh were all from the same seed batchs (2 different trees) as the third. The one at my office got covered by a plastic trash can. Another at a neighbors got covered by a sheet. The rest had absolutely no protection and were fully exposed. The exposed ones got burned but have fully recovered. Maybe the frost/freezing rain was the culprit for the burn.

All of these survived almost 48 hours of temps below 32 degrees (freezing) !!

Most all queens around town and the beaches died during these freezes...there were a few straggly survivors that have still not regained their crowns. My experience is that Bismarkia is a degree or two more cold hardy than your average queen palm. I know others might disagree....and it may be because of the North Florida sand that they grow so well....we have unbelievable drainage....almost too much for most palms and plants.

Anyway, Bismarkia is one palm that even if it is lost to some crazy weather event....they are worth the trouble because of their beauty and speed of growth. If I lost every one of them....I would buy more and plant them again.....can't say that about many palms.

David, are you growing parajubea toryalli??

WOW, I always thought queens were much more cold tolerant than that.

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Queens are crazy variable. Some in my head are looking nice right now after last winter while others are only a barren trunk..... The owners still havnt given up hope

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My D decipiens is planted in one of the wettest areas of my yard, wet enough New Zealand flax spots and ferns/seligenalla grows with impunity. I'm not sure I buy that these are super moisture sensitive as long as the area around their heel is well draining (I amended the planting hole with gravel). Mine is now 5 years old I think and has split its trunk. Cold damage in 2010, otherwise none.

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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Alice- Gotcha I have 2 in 5 gallon pots that have taken in the low 20's but I wont yet let them try any lower than that. How in the heck does it get into the teens where you live?! I had to look up where Seacrest Beach, Florida was and I thought you were on the gulf coast, but I never would have though that you get that low of temperatures being right near the Atlantic!

Different Seacrest Beach......I am almost exactly between Panama City and Destin on the Gulf Coast.

One big thing to be aware of with Bismarckia. ...don't leave them in pots in freezing weather....roots are extremely sensitive to freezing temps....it can kill them dead at even a few degrees below freezing.

Josh....no Parajubea. ....too humid here....but probably going to get a BxPJC from Patric .... anything with Butia will probably do great here.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Try Parajubaea sunkha. Mine is still growing well, it's about the same age as my dd.

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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Hmmmm....ok....might be worth a shot since we are so close........5 years old....sounds promising. ....sometime when you hear stuff will not grow it is usually based on a very small sample size. Many times it is with more difficult to obtain species.....so it is up to the pioneers to continue pushing the envelope with marginal species to get a more true picture of what is actually possible.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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The little D. decipiens that could is still with us. I had to pull back the Lemon Grass to find it. Made it through last winter with no help at all, and this summer as well for that matter. I might actually give it a little TLC this year coming.

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In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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I planted mine with 3 strap leaves and it has done well. I'll take a photo when I'm in Ocala next.

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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