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Big Freeze of 2014 - I just as soon start the thread now


_Keith

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post-97-0-55335500-1391038039_thumb.jpgLivistonia saribus in the evening light

Just realized the top layer of sand is frozen

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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David, hang in there.

Get yourself some peroxide.

You might be surprised at how tough some things are. Especially Livistonas.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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This freeze should be a baseline for what you Should grow. After a few freezes you will get sick of pruning brown fronds etc.. I myself would only replant palms that fared the best. I am on the border of zone 8b/9a. The most marginal palms I have that still look good are Mules, Rhapsis in protected spots, cham radicalis. Phoenix, washy, syagrus, livistonia are all bleach blond, and this is the 3rd event in 5 years. Its not enough to kill them, but just enough to give palms a bad name for locals.

Edited by Collectorpalms

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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27F this morning with most of the day before hovering around freezing (afternoon high was 34F)...should be 75F Friday

Brownsville/South Padre had a brief freeze 31-32F

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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I would not worry about the Livistonas.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Does Louisiana have a citrus industry anymore? Seems like freezes are too frequent there. Any palm tree farms?

Edited by Collectorpalms

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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Texas has a Citrus Industry.

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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Does Louisiana have a citrus industry anymore? Seems like freezes are too frequent there. Any palm tree farms?

We do indeed have a Citrus industry in Louisiana. The Citrus varieties grown here are the hardier types. Freezes like this year will likely set the trees back a year, but no real permanent damage will be done. Only the severe freezes in 83 (low of 13) and 89 (low of 9) did any real damage. Those freezes were assumed to be 100 year freezes even though only 6 years apart. That is the darned thing about averages, lol. But even then people sulk for a few years, then most replant knowing they will get another good 20 to 40 year run. The trees themselves are likely to die from something else before another big freeze takes them out.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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wow I did not know that.

Prompted me to look and find this timely New Orleans area specific article.

http://www.nola.com/weather/index.ssf/2014/01/louisiana_citrus_farmers_harve.html

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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What Palms commercially could be grown in and around Houma? Pretty good soil right? Is there a fear of salt water inundation?

Belle Chasse is very special microclimate south of NOLA probably 9b.

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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Just looked and we didn't go above freezing today. 25 to 32 degree range since this thing started. Good to hear about the Livistonia's .....still hopeful most of the big stuff will pull through. It will be interesting to see what survives.....good data for zone pushers in zones 8-9.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Just looked and we didn't go above freezing today. 25 to 32 degree range since this thing started. Good to hear about the Livistonia's .....still hopeful most of the big stuff will pull through. It will be interesting to see what survives.....good data for zone pushers in zones 8-9.

In 2010 with lows of 21,19,20 my larger L. saribus whined for about a week, then never missed a beat. Even a smaller sickly one did fine.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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:indifferent:From the article it looks like you will have freeze next Dec .

Palms not just a tree also a state of mind

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Yes, it Says Dec 6, 2014 so Watch out Farmer Almanac readers.

It should have said Jan 6, 2014 that was the polar vortex.

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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Yes, it Says Dec 6, 2014 so Watch out Farmer Almanac readers.

It should have said Jan 6, 2014 that was the polar vortex.

LOL, well proof reading like many other things ain't what it used to be. And I am not one to speak. But on that note, we are pretty much guaranteed a freeze every December. The only question is how deep of a freeze.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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:indifferent:From the article it looks like you will have freeze next Dec .

Well, nobody was debating that, after all, a couple freezes are not abnormal in south Louisiana, but their is a good chance it won't be as bad as these..

Malabar, Florida. Zone 10a, East Central Florida.

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There are a lot of citrus trees in Houston. They are not really noticable until the fall when the fruit begins to get colorful. I planted a ruby red in 1990 that is as tall as my two story house now. Hundreds of fruit each year but alternating years in how many fruit it produces. The coldest temps it has seen was 22F both 3 and 4 seasons ago. It lost about 10% of it leaves during those freezes, hardier than I expected.

Ed in Houston

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There are four states with substantial citrus production, Florida (by far the largest), California (huge, but noticeably smaller than Florida), Texas, and Arizona. There is some limited production in Louisiana as noted above but it does not have much of a commercial presence. Texas focuses production and marketing in special varieties or red grapefruit, usually marketed as "Rio Star". Arizona produces lemons more than anything else for commercial purposes.

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

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We buy the ruby red grapefruit here in Calif. Love the sweetness of it over the lighter colored variety. So is this polar freeze weather far enough south to affect those crops?

Zone 9b (formerly listed as Zone 9a); Sunset 14

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I grow both Ruby Red and Rio Red. Big difference. If you have not had Rio Red you need to find one. Like the difference between a regular orange and a blood orange.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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We buy the ruby red grapefruit here in Calif. Love the sweetness of it over the lighter colored variety. So is this polar freeze weather far enough south to affect those crops?

The commercial citrus industry in Texas is located in the Rio Grande Valley, far south Texas. The cold spells have brought the temps to about freezing there. The fruit will not be harmed unless the temps go to about 26 or so. As the story goes, cool weather makes the fruit sweeter.

Ed in Houston

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I grow both Ruby Red and Rio Red. Big difference. If you have not had Rio Red you need to find one. Like the difference between a regular orange and a blood orange.

I totally agree, actually I don't even like Ruby Red enough to eat it, but absolutely love a good Rio Red, which is what most of the Texas growers are using these days. Star Ruby is also very good, but the tree itself lacks vigor so it is not used at much. When you buy Texas grapefruit that says "Rio Star" it could be Rio Red or Star Ruby, they cover their bases either way for marketing purposes.

I will also second what Ed said, the commercial production areas of Texas were not hurt by this cold event, at 26 degrees N lat. it really takes a special system to push hard enough that far south, it can happen of course, but not very often.

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

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Around Houma, there is no commercial citrus, but we grow meyer lemons, satsumas, Louisiana sweet oranges, and grapefruits. The commercial plantings lie along the Mississippi river south of New Orleans. These areas are 9b. They are surrounded by the gulf of mexico.... basically a peninsula.... look at a map. I was down in Venice for an offshore fishing trip in the spring.... the camp where we stayed had a grove of what I think was satsumas.... the blooms smelled out of this world.

BTW we have good soil immediately along the banks of the bayous.... away from that- blackjack clay... terrible. I think Keith's property has both of these soils with that exact distribution.

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There is only one state that did not have snow on the ground this morning. Guess which one?

Don't guess Florida - you would be wrong.

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

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Don't guess Florida - you would be wrong.

No I wouldn't.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Let's see, it can't be a mountainous state, that rules out all the West. Most of the Southeast has snow. Most of the Northeast has snow. Most of the Midwest has snow.

...Arkansas?

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Well everyone. It appears maybe, just maybe the Big Freeze of 2014 is over and we are back to a normal winter. In a normal winter I already suffer from mild winter depression. With this stuff, the stress of a new job and other factors, I had just about reached hte end of my mental rope, I sure as heck hope we are done and see an early spring.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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The big cold snap is over. What a gawddamn chilly two days they were. Wed saw the temp drop into the middle 40'sF by 4pm with persistent light rain, remained around 45F until noon the following day, and continued to 50F by midnight - all with rain. Today, more rain, some heavy (total rainfall since Wed AM here is almost 2 inches) and not to 60F. Not cold enough to damage anything, and this moisture plume saved us frm having the arctic front thru. Pensacola FL hit 12F. Valdosta GA 22F. That is cold. Luckily, we missed out. Now, the next week looks balmy. Any ore cold coming down the pipe? :badday:oh, and it is still raining as I type this.

Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

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62F and steady atm with an occasional sprinkle. Returning warm front just on our doorstep may help temps continue rising through the night. After nearly 3 cold, rainy and raw days, the return of the sun and highs back in the 80s is gonna feel good.. Not seeing the return of any serious cold in the long range models either atm. If anything, the potential for severe weather looks to increase over the next few weeks ahead.

-Nathan-

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12 degrees in Pensacola? I don't think so......you must be looking at some errant wind chill data or something. This last freeze we saw the mid 20's up here.....some inland locations may have seen upper teens. We did stay below freezing for around 33 hours! With ice and snow in some places north and west of me. That was bad enough.....especially after the advective "Polar Vortex" when we pretty much hit 20 degrees most everywhere and stayed below freezing for almost 2 days and nights. Interstate I-10 was closed ....first time since 1989 on this last freeze.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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I'm also glad to see January and the relentless below average cold temps gone. 10 day looks great with nothing below 40 and highs in the 70s. I think I will do some stuff in the yard today.

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Sidebar reading on the big freeze subject, courtesy of the IPS.

http://www.palms.org/principes/1994/vol38n2p64-72.pdf

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Friend of mine that lives there - that is what she reported on her thermometer. I do not know her exact location. She did say there was about 1/2" of snowy sleet on the ground, which could result in radiational cooling. She could live north of town well inland. I do not know. It was VERY cold for two days.

Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

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The sun is trying to come out, I think the last time I saw her was on Tuesday. :badday:

Frank

 

Zone 9b pine flatlands

humid/hot summers; dry/cool winters

with yearly freezes

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