Coldest night of year on tap

[NBTX11]

Well, tonight is the big one and probably the last one of the year.  Supposed to go down to the mid 20s (24-26F).  Coldest up until now has been 29F.  On the positive note, we're supposed to have a good rebound, with 70s in the 7 day forecast next week.  Perfect setup tonight for a hard radiational freeze.  Temps are supposed to drop like a rock.  It's already in the low 40s and the sun just went down.  This makes 2 years in a row that the coldest night of year is in Feb, and not Dec or Jan.  It's supposed to be getting warm around here, avg high is nearing 70F.  I'm tired of this, bring on the heat.

[Jimbean]

yeah, I know what you mean!  Our coldest month is beggining to be Febuary from the last few years or so.

[happ]

Freezes in California going back to 1978 have occurred in all 3 months of winter & last March was not only the  coldest March ever but the coldest month period [since I began recording data in 1980].

I used to be relieved that by this late in Feb warming was guaranteed  

Winter is a bitch  :laugh:

[steve 9atx]

I just got back in after fighting a 15mph COOOOLD wind to cover a large staghorn fern that's on a board nailed to a tree 12' in the air and thus too painful to move.  Also covered a young Bambusa lako that's in the ground. Can't think of anything else I can protect at this point - I have a large king and triangle each with absolutely brand new fronds opening, but they're too tall to cover.  The wind would blow the sheets off the tops anyway.

Jim, my coldest 'til now has been 33F; I think you're gonna beat me by four degrees again tonight.

We had an office lunch today and almost everyone ordered a big hot bowl of tortilla soup.

Stay warm,

Steve

[NBTX11]

Usually March really starts transitioning to heat around here.  Last March we had a few days in the 90s and a generally warm month.  I like to think we're home free, even though it is possible to freeze in Mar.  We only get a few freezes per year on average, and usually the last one is in late Feb to March 1st.

Steve, I'm going to beat you, it's already in the upper 30s right now and going down fast.  They are saying on the news that some of the notoriously cold areas of the Hill country (Kerrville, Rock Springs, etc) could get as low as 19F.  We won't get that cold, but we'll get cold enough.

[steve 9atx]

19F???  What's the point of livin' in Texas?  

That is a beautiful part of the state, though.  I'm sure you know this, Jim, but Fanick's has avocados that survive that hill country (e.g. Uvalde) climate of your's.

We have 36 as I write.  It would be ok except for that damned wind.  If you asked a native Houstonian what to call the last two weeks of February and the first week of March, they'd respond to a man, "Rodeo weather" (this is the run of the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo).  This means cold, overcast, drizzly.  So far this year has been all of those, but not this cold!  I can't believe we are only 1.25" ahead on our precip..  It seems like it has been overcast and rainy so far all year.  If Spring doesn't come soon, I may have to open a vein.

Steve

[NBTX11]

The rest of the area doesn't get any where NEAR as cold as Kerrville.  They might as well be in the panhandle to us.  They can grow palms though.  Last time I drove through Kerrville, I noticed some nice large Washy Filiferas.

[galveston1602]

definetly going to be a cold one, with my station showing a 20 degree dewpoint and temps dropping like a rock Im actually concerned we may break 32 tonight.....  I actually went out and moved a few of my pot palms inside the garage but otherwise i dont think the wind is going to die down enough to get frost so we should be fine...

as for kerville, we have a chunk of land out on hwy 41 about 45min west of kerrville and it gets absolutely bone chilling cold there.  in most years it hits the middle teens in the valleys.

[Tad]

got up way too early to watch for frost, but had a steady wind and it hasnt let up. sprinklers are all on cycle just to make sure. goona take a nap..before i have to take the kiddos to school.

hope everybody else avoided jack frost nipping at their tropicals.

tad

[NBTX11]

Was 25F when I got up this morning at 7am, not sure what the official low was, probably 24 or 25F.  Perfect night for cooling.  Not a cloud in the sky, no wind this morning.  could have been worse I guess.  Didn't feel that bad, because no wind, it was dead calm.

[BobbyinNY]

With all the temps you guys are describing, maybe I'm spending too much money keeping my stuff too warm... I haven't let any of my palms see below 45f yet this winter.. If I let the temps drop to around 35-37 or so, I could save alot on Electricity - I'm just worried that it's too close to freezing.

[NBTX11]

(BobbyinNY @ Feb. 16 2007,11:04)

QUOTE

With all the temps you guys are describing, maybe I'm spending too much money keeping my stuff too warm... I haven't let any of my palms see below 45f yet this winter.. If I let the temps drop to around 35-37 or so, I could save alot on Electricity - I'm just worried that it's too close to freezing.

Bobby, the stuff I have in ground, I don't even THINK about protecting at 25F.  Of course it helps that 25F is a once a year event, before this, it hadn't dropped below 30F.  But my cold hardy stuff such as Washys, CIDP, Queens, don't even blink at 25F.  Now next year, when I start expirimenting with more tender stuff, I might have to protect.  Understand, we only get down to 32F a very few times a year (usually less than 10 or so), and normally it's right at 32F or just barely below.

[galveston1602]

It  bottomed out at 31 this AM

wind was a constant 10-15mph so no problems with frost!

Bobby,

Id think you could easily let your stuff drop another 5-10 degrees without hurting much of anything.... that said, I wouldnt let it drop that low every night....

[KatyTX]

It got down to 26F out here on the fringe of H-town.

My foxtails (even wrapped in blankets) are 90% toast.  My kings (cunninghamiana) are about 50% toast.

My p.elegans - no damage...?

My c.mitis - adios amigo (maybe)

My r.rivularis - looked like crap anyway, but 50% toasty now

My p.robellini's (unprotected) - no damage showing yet.

My d.spinulosums - 20% toast (mostly in protected spots).

Aloes, agaves & Carissa macrocarpa appear OK.

I only plant marginal palms that are purchased at clearance sales.  I did my best to protect them (no palmscrapers or rope lights), but I really didn't have the time.  I don't think I spent more than $15 on any of them...  Oh well, it gives me an excuse to buy more  

Matt

[surgeon83]

Allen- 31, really?  My yard certainly doesn't look like it froze, but I guess that's all that really matters.  I wasn't going to protect my palms but I chickened out at 3:30pm yesterday and came home to cover them all up.  Of course everything is fine now.  I'm down to 50 minutes to protect 11 palms- the 14' foxtail and the 12' king are real PITAs but they're so beautiful.  

My neighbor said it bottomed out at 33.  I don't know what his source was.  

Matt- If your kings are only 50% toast, they probably have a good chance.  Especially since spring is so close.  Don't give up on ANYTHING until it collapses to the ground in a pile of mush under its own weight.

[NBTX11]

Good to see the kings survived 26.  I am going to put one in the ground expirimentally this year, and I don't do extensive protection methods other than wrapping and maybe lights.

[KatyTX]

Even the foxtails have a little bit of green left.  Hopefully this extreme cold stuff is over.  This has been a strange winter - consistently COLD!

The p.elegans really surprises me.  It received the same amount of protection as everything else.  But, it's on the east side of my house (gets immediate morning sun).  There's no tree canopy - but it's planted next to the house so that might have given it some protection.  It was sold as a Seaforthia elegans and has the characteristic brown speckled crownshaft.

I should have planted more of those.

[BobbyinNY]

Bobby, the stuff I have in ground, I don't even THINK about protecting at 25F.  Of course it helps that 25F is a once a year event, before this, it hadn't dropped below 30F.  But my cold hardy stuff such as Washys, CIDP, Queens, don't even blink at 25F.  Now next year, when I start expirimenting with more tender stuff, I might have to protect.  Understand, we only get down to 32F a very few times a year (usually less than 10 or so), and normally it's right at 32F or just barely below.

So that's my point, Jim.... If I set the thermostats to kick on at anything below 35, I'll use ALOT less electricity and they will mostly just come on at night anyway, because with the amount of sun we get around here, it's always 80f in my structures anyway.... I can't remember the last time we had a cloudy day - Except 2 days ago when the ice storm came.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

HOLY $HYTE BOBBY!!  NWS says 20ºF for you tonight!  Pick your trees up and run RUN RUN to the south!  YUCK!

[NBTX11]

(BobbyinNY @ Feb. 16 2007,19:00)

QUOTE

Bobby, the stuff I have in ground, I don't even THINK about protecting at 25F.  Of course it helps that 25F is a once a year event, before this, it hadn't dropped below 30F.  But my cold hardy stuff such as Washys, CIDP, Queens, don't even blink at 25F.  Now next year, when I start expirimenting with more tender stuff, I might have to protect.  Understand, we only get down to 32F a very few times a year (usually less than 10 or so), and normally it's right at 32F or just barely below.

So that's my point, Jim.... If I set the thermostats to kick on at anything below 35, I'll use ALOT less electricity and they will mostly just come on at night anyway, because with the amount of sun we get around here, it's always 80f in my structures anyway.... I can't remember the last time we had a cloudy day - Except 2 days ago when the ice storm came.

Yeah, I would think that you wouldn't need to turn them on below 35-40.  Your palmscrapers should retain daytime heat.  Have you ever been outside on a sunny cool day, but when you got into your car it was warm and almost hot.  Why, because the car traps heat from the sunshine.  I would think the structures would do the same.   Even on a cold but sunny day.  Well, just my guess anyway.

By the way, did that trachy you were having problems with finally kick the bucket, or still alive.

[JimR]

Just got back to Rockport.  Looks like we bottomed out around 32F with a wicked North wind.  Everything is showing leaf burn already.  Surprisingly, the Royals and the Veitchia arecina's seem to look best.

[surgeon83]

(KatyTX @ Feb. 16 2007,18:35)

QUOTE

The p.elegans really surprises me...  It was sold as a Seaforthia elegans and has the characteristic brown speckled crownshaft.

I should have planted more of those.

Do you mind posting a picture of this palm?  Are you sure it is P. elegans?  Because Houston Garden Center had a bunch of "Seaforthia elegans" in 3 gallon pots for $24.99 and those were A. cunninghamianas. Of course, those also have brown speckled crownshafts.  When I bought mine, I planted it within 30 feet of my larger A. cunninghamiana, and it took several months and post in this forum before I realized they were BOTH A. cunninghamianas.  Its confusing because that Seaforthia name was used to refer to both of those two different species.  Later in the year, Houston Garden Center did get a shipment of Ptychosperma elegans in 3 gallon pots, but those were just bifid-leaf seedlings and I think they were labeled as Ptychosperma.   Just curious for a picture, not trying to insult your ID abilities.     You can always dig up my old post about my confusion between the names from last spring.  Its funny I used to walk back and forth between the two and think, "Gosh, P. elegans sure does look a lot like A. cunninghamiana.  They both have brown speckeled crownshafts and brown fibers along the midrib of the undersides of the leaves   "  I think I was just in denial about not actually purchasing a different species.

Brian

[KatyTX]

Brian,

I am by no means an expert on the difference between the two.  My A. cunninghamianas have lime green crownshafts (no speckles other than frost/insect damage).  My "Seaforthia elegans" were sold by HGC last summer in the 3 gallon pots.  There were a few left in October.

I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow.  Baseball season is starting...I'm suddenly very busy.

Matt

[surgeon83]

Haha, Matt- now I am interested in seeing your A. cunninghamianas.  Lime green crownshaft without brown spots sounds more like another species of Archontophoenix, most likely alexandrae purely based on availability.  Our project over the next month is to straighten out what species you actually have so you will know what you still need to buy when the stuff goes back on sale  

NWS said the official low in Galveston was 33, which is consistent with no more signs of freeze damage.

EDIT: the bifid-leaf seedlings I was referring to at HGC in a previous post were actually Adonidia merillii and not P. elegans.  The only size P. elegans I have ever seen for sale are in 30-45 gallon pots and with several feet of trunk for $300.

[NBTX11]

My official low was 24F for this cold snap.

[ruskinPalms]

I have spent a lot of effort trying to identify my king palms. They were sold as A. cunninghamiana and have stumped the experts on this board for awhile now. A. cunn. is a very variable palm throughout its habitat in Australia from what I understand.  Look up the PACSOA website as they discuss IDing kings to a certain extent, but even they don't really seem to get a definitive handle on it. Truth is, we proabably all get hybrids of the various kings here in the states for sell at the big boxes. That is my conclusion anyway. Here is a pic of a young palm sold as A. cunn. that I have growing in the ground now. By the way it just saw 32.2F this morning with no protection - Did not have frost on it though from what I observed.

[KatyTX]

My A. cunninghamiana looks like Bill's - except for the severe freeze damage.

[KatyTX]

A. cunninghamiana crownshaft:

[KatyTX]

This is the one sold as "Seaforthia elegans" which escaped the icy jaws of death last week:

[KatyTX]

"Seaforthia elegans" crownshaft:

[surgeon83]

Bill, that one looks great.  I remember the old posts about trying to identify it.  My guess isn't worth as much as guesses that have already been taken in that thread.  I must say, though, that things always look better in Florida!

Matt, I am sure your Seaforthia elegans is A. cunninghamiana.  Mine is just like yours, with one dominant trunk and two smaller ones.  I'm amazed it survived 26 degrees; that is great news- makes me regret not buying FIVE of them last june after they went down to $12.50 for 5-6' specimens!!!

And I'm pretty sure your other one is A. alexandrae, which would be supported by its response to the cold.  Even that one looks like it could pull through.  Did you get it at HD?  They did have both A. cunninghamiana and A. alexandrae this last year.  

Thanks for the pictures.

Brian

[KatyTX]

Brian,

The big freeze-damaged ones were purchased at HD last spring - I could have sworn that they were labeled A. cunninghamiana.

Oh well - they were freeze damaged when I bought them.  Maybe I shouldn't be growing this one in the ground.

Matt

[galveston1602]

Brian,

we are always a few degrees cooler, both in winter and in summer, the official low last week was 33 but my ws showed 31 http://www.wunderground.com/weather....ar=2007

thats what living in a cow pasture gets ya

btw, my travelers is showing the most damage ever this year, even worse than the snow in 04  it will definetly pull through but, its blow torched!

[JimR]

Here's what it did to my bottle in Rockport.

[ruskinPalms]

You guys should be posting as detailed info as possible in the freeze database. Jim, sorry to see your bottle damaged like that. I am surprised it got fried like that at 32F. My neighbor's baby bottle saw at least 32F (as evidenced by the fried banana at the same level), maybe even lower. And it has been 3 nights in a row with frost in the area. It has sucked here recently. I was kinda hoping that bottles were good for a little lower than 32F.

[JimR]

Bill, I am not sure why it got hit as hard as it did.  I can only put it down to the wind.  It looks as bad or worse than it did after the 100 year snowfall in 2004 when we had 28F.  I still have hope it will make it.

[steve 9atx]

Jim

One of these days, I'm gonna join you with a little place of my own down in Rockport.  (BTW, it's best not to mention the 2004 snow in south Texas, though, as it doesn't seem to fit with THE MODEL.)  BTW, despite our superlative cooking techniques fer the critters down here in Tejas, I'd advise you to give up meat for the sake of the planet: http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0220/p03s01-ussc.html

Steve

[JimR]

Interesting article.  BTW, my family raised cattle in Texas from the 1870's into the 1970's.

[galveston1602]

Ive noticed living here on the island that the wind causes stress to all of my palms in amounts that the cold usually doesnt seem to top (thankfully)

its almost like the coastal 10-20mph wind we usually get desicates the palms really well and then the cold comes behind and puts the real hurt on them...  not to mention the 30+mph gusts that we will see on the immediate coast from any given cold front!

[happ]

(galveston1602 @ Feb. 21 2007,14:03)

QUOTE

Ive noticed living here on the island that the wind causes stress to all of my palms in amounts that the cold usually doesnt seem to top (thankfully)

its almost like the coastal 10-20mph wind we usually get desicates the palms really well and then the cold comes behind and puts the real hurt on them...  not to mention the 30+mph gusts that we will see on the immediate coast from any given cold front!

Allen

Wind is one thing that causes both harm & help.  When it is a land-to-sea wind it is often quite dry and seems to suck the moisture right out of the ground.  When wind is forecast, I start watering heavily; this is especially difficult if it is also hot.  But wind does far less damage than cold temps.