Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

C. alba Zone 9a hardy?


_Keith

Recommended Posts

I have several that are 10 foot or better clear trunks that have handled several cold events quite well, I think the waxy coating on the leaves is the reason they seem to work so well....I am a 9a/9b depending on who's map or chart you look at, and they make a lot of seed now too

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a waxy coating on leaves helps a palm survive in 9a, can we (poor, pitiful 9a palm lovers) apply wax to leaves and have them survive cold events? :hmm:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The little C. alba engine that could. I gave it up for dead last year, and probably should this year, but here it is coming out of winter barely alive again, and this time the tiny little thing endured 24 degrees unprotected. I don't know, but if it can throw a new spear or two, it just might beat the odds.

post-1207-0-71154200-1426126451_thumb.jp

  • Upvote 1

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keith, That would be awesome if that palm survived. keep us posted on its life journey.

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keith,

So far its been cold hardy for me in 9a. On the day of "Storm Octavia" we had 6 1/2 hours below freezing...I noticed early in the morning some dark spots on a few leaves, but as the sun warmed them up the spots went away. Here are some of mine.

post-7580-0-67344300-1426442171_thumb.jp

post-7580-0-77248200-1426442187_thumb.jp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a 5G alba that is going in the ground this spring right up against the south side of a brick building. This is a significant microclimate area and I am very hopeful that I can get it established enough to endure the Dallas winters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dynodaddy- I'd love to see how it does in Dallas, please keep us updated. I'm in the midlands of South Carolina and we have very similar weather with you in DFW. I have two C. Alba's but they're staying in their 3 gallon pots for the foreseeable future. Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 years later...
On 3/3/2015 at 11:15 AM, tank said:

I have had both C. prunifera and C. alba take temps down to 20F with minor damage and into the upper teens with some damage but they survived

Jason, how are your Copernicias doing?  My 3-gal sized prunifera has been planted in the yard for over a year now but hasn't seen temps below 26° F yet.

Jon Sunder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Fusca For some reason I thought you had Alba , maybe you have both. I have a bunch of Prunifera seedlings but didn't think they were long term in 9a , now I'm hopeful =) 

T J 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@Fusca For some reason I thought you had Alba , maybe you have both. I have a bunch of Prunifera seedlings but didn't think they were long term in 9a , now I'm hopeful =) 

I do have both - my alba survived 20° F in January 2018 and pretty confident for its long-term survival but the prunifera hasn't been tested yet and hopefully won't for awhile! :)  I went ahead and planted it based on Jason's experience so I'm hopeful also!  No damage at 26° F this past winter.

Jon Sunder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

There are two large C. alba at the Houston Zoo that have been there since the at least the 2000s 

Interesting - didn't know that, but not too surprising.  Do you know of anyone growing C. prunifera in Houston?  I didn't notice any Copernicias planted at Mercer on my last visit but alba should do well there.  I'm trying prunifera (20 months in ground so far) and alba is growing well in SA for 3 years.

  • Like 1

Jon Sunder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

There are two large C. alba at the Houston Zoo that have been there since the at least the 2000s 

I'll have to look out for it when I take my daughter to see the Zoo lights 

T J 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/17/2015 at 9:26 PM, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I have a 5G alba that is going in the ground this spring right up against the south side of a brick building. This is a significant microclimate area and I am very hopeful that I can get it established enough to endure the Dallas winters.

What results did you see? Im considering picking up a couple from you, among other things. Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Meangreen94zThey're similar to a livistona Decora hardiness wise. They will burn back but are bud hardy.  The Decora along I45 have proven to be 100% hardy for Houston.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/19/2019 at 3:12 PM, Fusca said:

Jason, how are your Copernicias doing?  My 3-gal sized prunifera has been planted in the yard for over a year now but hasn't seen temps below 26° F yet.

My three Albas and my single Prunifera are doing great and haven't shown damage over the past few years they've been in the ground, with the Prunifera having been planted about 9 years ago.  All have seen temps near 20F and the Prunifera survived the 2010 freeze where it got into the mid teens in my yard (14F on the high/lo thermometer).  I was going to post a state of the yard post soon and it will have some pics of the Copernicias.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, tank said:

My three Albas and my single Prunifera are doing great and haven't shown damage over the past few years they've been in the ground, with the Prunifera having been planted about 9 years ago.  All have seen temps near 20F and the Prunifera survived the 2010 freeze where it got into the mid teens in my yard (14F on the high/lo thermometer).  I was going to post a state of the yard post soon and it will have some pics of the Copernicias.

Great news!  I debated planting my C. prunifera but it seems pretty hardy and I'm glad now that I did!  I collected the seed in northeast Brasil several years ago and just assumed for years that it would have to stay in a container and would not survive in my yard coming from such a tropical environment.  I'll look forward to seeing your pics!

Jon

Jon Sunder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, tank said:

My three Albas and my single Prunifera are doing great and haven't shown damage over the past few years they've been in the ground, with the Prunifera having been planted about 9 years ago.  All have seen temps near 20F and the Prunifera survived the 2010 freeze where it got into the mid teens in my yard (14F on the high/lo thermometer).  I was going to post a state of the yard post soon and it will have some pics of the Copernicias.

Awesome information as I only thought Alba and macroglossa were long term here. I guess we can add prunifera to cold hardy 9a palms =) As I prefer the look of Prunifera over Alba 

T J 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would expect Alba to be slightly hardier than Prunifera based on where they are naturally found, but most of the reports seem to say that they are about the same as far as cold hardiness goes.   I imagine there is variability in hardiness from plant to plant based on where the original seed source came from.

I don't think Macroglossa is hardy into the low 20Fs/upper teens, although it may be the 3rd hardiest Copernicia behind Alba and Prunifera.

Also, I'm not sure if Alba and Prunifera really look that different and you'll need to find someone who has a bit of experience with both to tell them apart with certainty. IMHO.

Also, while Macroglossa may survive a one off freeze into the low 20Fs, I doubt it could handle a multi night/multi year freezes into the low 20Fs.  Even if it did, it would probably look pretty terrible.

I have a Macroglossa in the ground near (at a family beach house) just south of Sarasota, very close to the gulf and it showed some leaf damage (relatively minor, but damage nonetheless) from temps just below freezing for one night.  This freeze killed several coconuts nearby.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@tank This information is invalauble as the numbers I had read from palmpedia said Macroglossa was the hardiest with Prunifera being a 10b palm so I was a lil puzzled but excited to hear otherwise =) 

T J 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@tank This information is invalauble as the numbers I had read from palmpedia said Macroglossa was the hardiest with Prunifera being a 10b palm so I was a lil puzzled but excited to hear otherwise =) 

TJ, I hadn't noticed that before - under C. macroglossa Palmpedia says, "Hardiness: USDA Zone: 8b. Many experienced growers are now growing petticoat palm successfully in Zones 8b-9."  I've heard Washingtonia filifera referred to as "petticoat palm" as well as C. macroglossa so perhaps that quote is referring to Washingtonia robusta and is in the wrong profile?  For C. prunifera Palmpedia says, "Hardiness: USDA Zones 10B - 11" which can't be right either although it seems more reasonable based on prunifera's habitat.  I guess it's better to rely more on personal observations in the Freeze Damage Data section.

  • Upvote 1

Jon Sunder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Fusca Jon,

Copernicia are a wonderful genus agenum hoping we can get more real life data for hardiness. I have a bunch of Prunifera seedlings and will definitely try Alba one day. Macroglossa I want to try but seems incredibly slow and maybe not worth the attempt if they don't end up being as hardy as palmpedia claims haha especially if it's a typo =/ 

 

 

T J 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that's a typo on the Macroglossa, my notes have it taking damage at 25 and barely survived defoliation at 19F in Melbourne.  Others call the Macroglossa a zone 10 palm, I think 9b might be pushing it on that one.  My notes on Copernicia Prunifera are "ok to 25F in full sun, some survive low 20s.  Growth is extremely slow in anything but full sun, at least in FL. " Copernicia Alba I had with "no damage at 26F Orlando, slight burn @ 22F Daytona Beach, moderate burn @ 19F in Melbourne. " So I guess if you can tolerate some damage then Alba is a 9a palm and Prunifera is close but not quite as hardy.  But there's no way a Macroglossa is a zone 8b...  :D 

Edited by Merlyn2220
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2018 Alba (in the back).  Palm in front is Trachycarpus princeps

 

1BD1CCFD-6F81-4503-BBCC-0F953425A45F.jpeg

Hard to see, but the same Alba is in the center.
1BB43E21-1FFC-42CF-9A6E-A81E3D2E456A.jpeg
 

I’ll try and get some better and updated pics this weekend.

Edited by tank
  • Like 4

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When taking into account the high standard deviation for winter temps in the Gulf south, I would say this is more safely a 9b palm in the southeast since it needs years to grow into a beautiful, mature plant...and because my specimen in Natchez, Mississippi (9a urban heat island) finally bit the dust in 13F in the really bad freeze a couple of winters ago (the one in which New Orleans got slammed with 19F). Mine had survived 18F and several hard freezes when very young but came back and was just getting some size on it when it got blasted to death. So I am guessing it's bankable as a 20-year survivor in the urban heat islands of Houston, New Orleans and Jacksonville. As long as you can keep its environment at upper teens or warmer it seems to survive. Out west in dry freezes probably somewhat better performance. Really an under-utilized palm. The spines are pretty vicious, though!

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...