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Floridian scare #3


SubTropicRay

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In my front yard:  40.2 at 5:30 AM this morning;  39.9 at 7:05 AM.   So..... why is there ICE on my windshield???

No plants seem affected, can't see any damage at all, even to those in pots - a few didn't get brought in.

So far my big in-ground spindle looks fine - it's my most cold-sensitive palm.   But let's see how it's doing tomorrow.

St. Pete

Zone - a wacked-out place between 9b & 10

Elevation = 44' - not that it does any good

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Heat kills just as many palms............they say.

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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Boy, this is a real chit-chatty little topic. A good way of getting your number of post UP.

Jeff

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Oh, I forgot, it was in the mid 40's this morning.

Jeff

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Just checked the forcast for the week, it's going to warm up into the 80's for a high through the week down south here.

Jeff

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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(SunnyFl @ Feb. 19 2007,08:05)

QUOTE
In my front yard:  40.2 at 5:30 AM this morning;  39.9 at 7:05 AM.   So..... why is there ICE on my windshield???

It stinks how that works doesnt it?

I think I mentioned in a different post that IO measured the temp of the roof of my wifes car (which was sitting in the driveway) on Friday night/Saturday AM),and it was 22F!  The air was 34F.

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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(SunnyFl @ Feb. 19 2007,08:05)

QUOTE
In my front yard:  40.2 at 5:30 AM this morning;  39.9 at 7:05 AM.   So..... why is there ICE on my windshield???

No plants seem affected, can't see any damage at all, even to those in pots - a few didn't get brought in.

So far my big in-ground spindle looks fine - it's my most cold-sensitive palm.   But let's see how it's doing tomorrow.

Hello SunnyFL,

     I had frost on our windshields of our cars for 2 mornings. I was in the mid 40's. OUCH!

Jeff

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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(SunnyFl @ Feb. 19 2007,08:05)

QUOTE
So far my big in-ground spindle looks fine - it's my most cold-sensitive palm.   But let's see how it's doing tomorrow.

Should be fine Sunny.  Mine have seen a few degrees less than yours and are all fine.  And, most of mine are in wide open areas of the yard, so they get no natural protection at all.

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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(Jeff Searle @ Feb. 19 2007,08:32)

QUOTE
     I had frost on our windshields of our cars for 2 mornings. I was in the mid 40's. OUCH!

Jeff

No windshield or house rooftop frost here......not due to the fact that it was warmer (it was far colder here than down in Davie), but the dewpoints up this way were very low (they were around 30F around 2-3AM, but dropped into the lower 20's by early AM).  

I measured 29-30F at ground level again this AM, but no frost due to the low dewpoints.

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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Well the Sealing Wax palms are still GREEN!!!!!!!!!!!(with very little protection).

Jeff

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Lows summary around Tampa Bay----

LJ's Jungle - Tarpon Springs - 37.6F

USF Marine Station - Fred Howard Park - Tarpon Springs (Gulf) - 41.59F

USF Marine Station - Sponge Docks - Tarpon Springs (Anclote River) - 40.28F

St Petersburg - Albert Whitted AP - 46F

Clearwater - Clearwater/St. Pete AP - 45F

Tampa AP - 37F

McDill AFB - 39F

Vandenberg AP - 32F

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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(Jeff Searle @ Feb. 19 2007,08:48)

QUOTE
Well the Sealing Wax palms are still GREEN!!!!!!!!!!!(with very little protection).

Jeff

Jeff-

Do you have them in the ground?

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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BRING ON THE HEAT!!!  Where's the praying emoticon?  My fingers just started to bleed...  :angry:  riding a motorcycle to work was dumb...  It's really chilly out there...  my outside thermometer reads 39F when I arrived at work around 8am...  the high low under the canopy shows I got interior temps bottoming out at 61F...  :cool:  It really did make sense to cover up all my tiny seedlings!  Anyone lose any palms yet?

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(spockvr6 @ Feb. 19 2007,08:49)

QUOTE
LJ's Jungle - Tarpon Springs - 37.6F

I also wanted to note that, I was suspcious after Saturday AM that a certain part of my yard (one side in the back) was getting colder than where the weather station sensor is.  In this suspect area I saw that cold sensitive low lying plants (Sanchezia specifically) had their tops singed a bit, while these same plants near my station sensor were unharmed.  This made some bells go off in my head :D

So, using a different thermometer, this AM I measured the temp of this suspected cold area as ~2-3F colder than the area where my station sensor is.

To confirm that the difference in reading was true and not just sensor differential, I then placed the sensor of the thermometer used to measure the cold spot into the Stephenson Shield (which is fan aspirated) used to house my weather station sensor.  It read within a few tenths of the station sensor.

So, that was good enough for me to know that the lows in this other part of my yard were colder than my "official" reading.  As such, the colder parts of my yard were more like 34-35F.

The other 3 sides of my yard seemed to read within half a degree either way of my weather station sensor.

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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(JeffreyApolloBeach @ Feb. 19 2007,09:14)

QUOTE
At 7am the temp in my backyard was 37.

Jeffrey-

Every time I scan the area stations, I see that Apollo Beach and Tarpon Springs tend to run very close in temps.  One can almost predict what is happening at one location by looking at the other.

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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(spockvr6 @ Feb. 19 2007,08:49)

QUOTE

(Jeff Searle @ Feb. 19 2007,08:48)

QUOTE
Well the Sealing Wax palms are still GREEN!!!!!!!!!!!(with very little protection).

Jeff

Jeff-

Do you have them in the ground?

Larry,

    No, I don't have in the ground. Their in the shadehouse, but with no heat.

Jeff

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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41f this morning, minor frost AGAIN. No real problems, the only palm showing signs of stress are the 2 Areca catechu I have in the ground. Sure not as happy as in the middle of summer. I expect them to perk up with no problems. The one I keep in a pot on the screen porch still looks perfect though with no further protection. Amazing how much differerance just a screen enclosure makes.

Jupiter FL

in the Zone formally known as 10A

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(redant @ Feb. 19 2007,10:12)

QUOTE
the only palm showing signs of stress are the 2 Areca catechu I have in the ground.

Doug-

Ill bet they are not as stressed as mine!

This was a beautiful palm.

Palms_18.jpg

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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(Jeff Searle @ Feb. 19 2007,09:49)

QUOTE
Larry,

    No, I don't have in the ground. Their in the shadehouse, but with no heat.

Jeff

Close enough......in the pots I suspect the roots get alot colder than they would in the ground?

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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spockvr6 that is so sad!! Please tell me that wasn't this cold that did it!?

Frank

 

Zone 9b pine flatlands

humid/hot summers; dry/cool winters

with yearly freezes

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(Trópico @ Feb. 19 2007,11:02)

QUOTE
spockvr6 that is so sad!! Please tell me that wasn't this cold that did it!?

I wish it was cold!  Then I could balme someone other than myself! Mother Nature is always an easy one to pin blame on  :D

It was mini-Christmas lights, applied apparently far too generously, which cooked the trunk in one small area, weakened it, and the high winds on Saturday did the rest.

Suffice it to say that when I walked around the corner and saw this, I was crushed.  

But, this is palm #3 to reach this end, so I suppose I have built up a tolerance of sorts  :P

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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(PiousPalms @ Feb. 19 2007,11:07)

QUOTE

(spockvr6 @ Feb. 19 2007,10:41)

QUOTE
Ill bet they are not as stressed as mine!

This was a beautiful palm.

OUCH!!  This cold has got to go!

Wait a sec!

Pious has just given me an idea......

Maybe I can blame the cold on this one!

If it were not for the periodic cold fronts that come through, then I wouldnt have even thought to be so generous with the lights for supplemental heat.  Thus, the palm would not have been damaged and would still be vertical!

See....it is Mother Nature's fault after all!

Pious.....Thank you for the timely post which just allowed me to remove responsibility from myself for this unfortunate event.  I feel a whole lot better!

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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It's warming up nicely. Already in the mid 60's. Yahoooooo :D

Jeff

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Forcast for the remainder of the week is low 80's as a high starting Wednesday. Ahhhhh, I can feel it coming. :D

Jeff

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Pretty amazing to see reports of frost with temps in the 40's. I didn't have ice or frost on my car windshield at all during the cold mornings. Wonder why? There was ice on the roof the other, colder morning though. Through all of this, I am just glad that I did not have frost on my palms or other landscape plants (or not much that I could see or feel easily anyway). So far, it looks like the only real damage, albeit minor, are to my 2 cocos, and one Adonidia with about 10 to 20% bronzing of the older more horizontal fronds. I am still not convinced that I did not cause that myself by covering them with sheets that were in contact with the fronds. They should begin recovering immediately this week.

Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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(spockvr6 @ Feb. 19 2007,09:06)

QUOTE

(spockvr6 @ Feb. 19 2007,08:49)

QUOTE
LJ's Jungle - Tarpon Springs - 37.6F

I also wanted to note that, I was suspcious after Saturday AM that a certain part of my yard (one side in the back) was getting colder than where the weather station sensor is.  In this suspect area I saw that cold sensitive low lying plants (Sanchezia specifically) had their tops singed a bit, while these same plants near my station sensor were unharmed.  This made some bells go off in my head :D

So, using a different thermometer, this AM I measured the temp of this suspected cold area as ~2-3F colder than the area where my station sensor is.

To confirm that the difference in reading was true and not just sensor differential, I then placed the sensor of the thermometer used to measure the cold spot into the Stephenson Shield (which is fan aspirated) used to house my weather station sensor.  It read within a few tenths of the station sensor.

So, that was good enough for me to know that the lows in this other part of my yard were colder than my "official" reading.  As such, the colder parts of my yard were more like 34-35F.

The other 3 sides of my yard seemed to read within half a degree either way of my weather station sensor.

Larry, that is interesting. I have not done an official study of my yard yet. I suspect it is pretty uniform as I have no canopy and it is all a gentle slope downward to the retention pond. I keep my sensor in the most exposed part of my yard as far away from the house, pond, plants etc. as possible. The pole seems to put the temp sensor at about 4 to 4.5 feet. It has a passive solar shield that seems to be ok during the days (but not as good as fan aspirated) and I am guessing that the shield really doesn't matter at night. One thing is for sure, it gets too cold here for what I am trying to grow. This is like the warmest winter in a long time and it still manged to almost freeze in my backyard.

Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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Bill,

Would think it was because of very low humity levels on the west coast, because you were closer to the actual center of the high pressure system out in the gulf.

Plenty of moisture and frost in inland central Florida,Poinciana,and over here on the east coast Titusville,although lighter over here!

Scott

Titusville, FL

1/2 mile from the Indian River

USDA Zone COLD

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Well just got back from the frozen TUNDRA of my moms,just south of Kissimmee.In the lovely comunity of artic Poincianna.

So figured I would post the lows there

Fri/Sat     28.4F

frost on everything except plants near the house.

Sun/Mon  29.1F

Less frost than Sat ,but still on ground ,roofs and cars

Faired a little better over here in Titusville (32780)

Fri/Sat      36.6F

Light frost on exposed yard,roofs,and cars, not on palms ot plants, less than

inland

Sun/Mon   35.4F

again light frost

Yes here in Titusville I was COLDER Sun/Mon that Fri/Sat

Well the forecast boys at the NWS (point) had Titusville forecast for 32F when I left for Fri/Sat actual as stated was 36.6F only  missed 4.6 degrees on the low side.

The same NWS (point) had Poincianna at 33F (suspect at first glance it being forecast higher there).

Actual as stated for Fri/Sat was 28.4F only missed 4.6 degrees on the HIGH side!

At least they missed it consistantly by 4.6 degrees! :laugh:

I have no idea what the NWS forecast was for Sun/Mon as I had no comptuer access and was stuck with the television weather HYPE! ???

I do know that the NWS  had issued a freeze WARNING,not WATCH for every county in the viewing area,and the only place the TV meto's were forecasting freezing or below frezzing temps were Ocala Gainesvile, north lake and marion county! Which seemed strange to me as all these counties according to the NWS were supposed to reach or go below frezzing tenps,and they were giving mid and high 30's temps,except for the very northern counties of the Orlando viewing area! :laugh:

Scott

Titusville, FL

1/2 mile from the Indian River

USDA Zone COLD

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Jeff,

How cold did it get at the nursery?

Ray

Tampa, Interbay Peninsula, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10A

Bokeelia, Pine Island, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10B

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Ummmm....quick question.....

NWS said the low tonight in 34689 would be 47F.

Why is it that when I just walked outside that I nearly froze?  My weather station is currently showing 43F!

Dewpoints are steady at 37F and unless something changes overnight, I may get a frosty surprise in the AM.    The dew on the roof of my wifes car looks like it is about a degree or two off from turning to slush.

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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(Ray, Tampa @ Feb. 19 2007,20:34)

QUOTE
Jeff,

How cold did it get at the nursery?

Ray

Ray,

   I am relying on a one decent and one $5 thermo. at the house. Both in different areas and were both 1degree apart. 45 and 46 degrees last night and 3 nights ago. I had ice(frost) on both car windshields. But it did feel much colder. My good thermo. I got for Christmas, had to be returned because it wasn't working. The new one should be here later this week I hope.

Jeff

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Dan! Long time no see!  Glad to see you have joined here!

I am not sure what the heck is going on tonight.  There were supposed to be some SSE winds....yet it has been dead calm for hours and skies are crystal clear.  The temp has thus plummeted.  

My fathers weather station (as you know my parents live near you) is also showing 41F at this hour.  My station is not far behind and has since dropped to 42 and some change.

I hope the forecasts (which call for the low to be reached in the wee hours of the AM) hold true!

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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(Jeff Searle @ Feb. 19 2007,22:17)

QUOTE
45 and 46 degrees last night and 3 nights ago. I had ice(frost) on both car windshields.

Hot dang.....I thought it was cool when I logged car rooftop "slush" just starting to form at a 41.7F air temp.  I have usually measured the windshield at 10-12F lower than the air temp on a calm clear night.  45-46F with windshield frost means the air must have been extremely wet and skies extremely clear.

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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45 and 46 degrees last night and 3 nights ago. I had ice(frost) on both car windshields

Jeff,

how is it possible to have ice at 45 or 46f???? you're scaring me... I've been keeping my roeb & p. elegans at that temp during the night and haven't seen any frost or ice...

Bobby

Long Island, New York  Zone 7a (where most of the southern Floridians are originally from)

AVERAGE TEMPS

Summer Highs  : 85-90f/day,  68-75f / night

Winter Lows     : 38-45f/day,   25-35f / night

Extreme Low    : 10-20f/day,    0-10f / night   but VERY RARE

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surface temp......explained at various times on various threads..

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Don't worry Bobby, it wouldn't cause a problem for any of your palms, even if they were only two inches high, they just aren't made of the right stuff.  Hmmm, wondering about Chamaedorea metallica.

]

Corey Lucas-Divers

Dorset, UK

Ave Jul High 72F/22C (91F/33C Max)

Ave Jul Low 52F/11C (45F/7C Min)

Ave Jan High 46F/8C (59F/15C Max)

Ave Jan Low 34F/1C (21F/-6C Min)

Ave Rain 736mm pa

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