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Check out my palms! Advice & comments welcome!


smithgn

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This is my new Dwarf Palmetto. Planted about 3 weeks ago. Bought it knowing it liked its feet to be wet or moist... So I naturally placed it in the part of my yard where its prone to a bit of flooding even during moderate rain. So far so good!

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Here's a pic of my Dwarf Palmetto's roots. When I planted it, they weren't nearly so prominent. It seems they keep wanting to clump around the base of the plant, just above the soil. Is this okay or should I put a bit more soil to cover up these newly exposed roots?

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Here's my Windmill Palm, planted this guy in May. Looks to be doing pretty good, also!

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Exposed roots on my Windmill Palm also. Should this be covered with more soil? Or is it okay as it is?

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Last but not least, my Canary Island Date Palm. Living just a tad north of Columbia, SC (8A), it will be interesting to see if I can keep this guy alive and well through the winters we have here. I want to provide minimal protection, unless it of course starts snowing, which happens once every 3 years or so. I placed it within a few feet of the road which I heard provides some warmth at night, as the asphalt releases heat. There are also bushes about 7 or 8 feet to the right of this palm which will hopefully block out any cold winds in the winter. Hopefully this will be a good enough formula to equal out a healthy Canary Island Date palm in an otherwise borderline growing zone for it.

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Also, when I bought this palm it was outgrowing its pot. I also noticed these black spots on some of the fronds. The lady at the nursery told me those spots are fungus from the enormous amounts of rain we've been receiving in the southeast. Any truth to this? Check it out:

011_zps40efd504.jpg

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Ever think about trying to use a dark rock(s) near the CIDP to attempt to create a heat sync? Might help on those cold winter nights.

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You need to put some sort of mulch on top of all those exposed roots on your sabal on the lower side of the heel. It's good to plant the sabal slightly higher, but you don't want all those lower roots exposed to the air. The roots off the heel eventually die off, but it's best not to push it. The trachy is definitely planted too high, it's not prone to rot, so there's no reason to have all the exposed roots. Trachys actually make more roots off the trunk if it's slightly buried. The canary date looks ok to me, but they are very prone to fungal infection, you would have been better off with phoenix sylvestris.

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Ever think about trying to use a dark rock(s) near the CIDP to attempt to create a heat sync? Might help on those cold winter nights.

I have not thought about this, although you can bet I'll be doing it this coming winter for sure haha. How simple, yet It didn't cross my mind. Thanks for the input!

You need to put some sort of mulch on top of all those exposed roots on your sabal on the lower side of the heel. It's good to plant the sabal slightly higher, but you don't want all those lower roots exposed to the air. The roots off the heel eventually die off, but it's best not to push it. The trachy is definitely planted too high, it's not prone to rot, so there's no reason to have all the exposed roots. Trachys actually make more roots off the trunk if it's slightly buried. The canary date looks ok to me, but they are very prone to fungal infection, you would have been better off with phoenix sylvestris.

Gotcha. Would more topsoil be fine for the sabal? Or definitely mulch?

Interesting! I was very paranoid about planting it too deep, so I purposely planted it that high. Did not know that Trachy's are not prone to rot, thanks for letting me know. Should I layer some more soil or mulch on top of the exposed roots on this one as well?

Again, thanks for y'alls input. I'm a beginner at this so this information is like gold to me.

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If you don't get more replies, give this thread a bump. There are some smart and experienced palm growers around your area. I'm sure they can give you really great practical advice for your climate.

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The fungus spots due to constant rain is right on the money. I have been dealing with this for a couple years now with all of the crazy rain

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Nick!

Welcome aboard!

I thought Irmo was in Serbia or someplace . . . (Glad I looked it up!)

I concur with everyone's comments. Keep us apprized of what's happening on your plants and any new ones you get!

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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The fungus spots due to constant rain is right on the money. I have been dealing with this for a couple years now with all of the crazy rain

Interesting. Luckily, it looks like we're going to get a break from the rain for 2-3 days. Despite having the break in rain, should I still continue to water it daily, being a newly planted palm? It's been in the ground for not even 2 weeks.

Nick!

Welcome aboard!

I thought Irmo was in Serbia or someplace . . . (Glad I looked it up!)

I concur with everyone's comments. Keep us apprized of what's happening on your plants and any new ones you get!

Thanks! Haha not quite Europe. An odd name for sure though, I believe it came from the combination of two peoples names. I will surely do so! Tomorrow I'm planning on posting some updated pictures of two California fan palms I have.

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Post away brother!

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Looks good and welcome to the Forum. I would not worry too much about the fungal spots, sooner or later, most palms will just out grow that stage of life. And be careful on planting your palms high. It appears you are making it a habit. Get back to planting at ground level, it's much safer.

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Looks good and welcome to the Forum. I would not worry too much about the fungal spots, sooner or later, most palms will just out grow that stage of life. And be careful on planting your palms high. It appears you are making it a habit. Get back to planting at ground level, it's much safer.

Jeff, down here in the flat heavy clay with equally heavy rainfall, mounded planting is pretty common. I don't doubt your advice, but I was wondering if you elaborate just a bit on why you think it is safer.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Looks good and welcome to the Forum. I would not worry too much about the fungal spots, sooner or later, most palms will just out grow that stage of life. And be careful on planting your palms high. It appears you are making it a habit. Get back to planting at ground level, it's much safer.

Thanks! Whew, glad to know those spots aren't a huge deal. Will be happy once they vanish. Yeah I have been making it a habit, like I said, I got so paranoid about root rot and lack of drainage that I purposely planted them that high. Come to find out I didn't need to with the Windmill palm. Keith is right though, we have a bunch of clay down here. The pictures I've shared above, those palms aren't sitting in much clay at all, except for my dwarf- although it'll probably thrive in it.

Here are some pics of my California palms. They aren't even 9 months old yet:

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Here's a close up. My palm on the left sustained a broken frond a few weeks ago. Here you can see my contraption I use to support the broken frond.

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Here's a blurry close up of the break:

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The break from above:

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Here's another picture which shows a bit of yellowing starting to occurring down from where the break occurred. There are also a few spots.

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What should I do about this broken frond? Or is there anything I can do? In the long run I'm hoping for it to grow a bit more, strengthening the frond at its base where the break is enough to where it can support its own weight. Should I just let it run its course and see what happens?

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The "broken" frond is no big deal. Just let it flop or you can prune it off if it bothers you. They aren't that sensitive, that palm won't even care if you bit that frond off. I like the contraption though, E for effort.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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After seeing the way you treat your palms, would you mind adopting me.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Looks good and welcome to the Forum. I would not worry too much about the fungal spots, sooner or later, most palms will just out grow that stage of life. And be careful on planting your palms high. It appears you are making it a habit. Get back to planting at ground level, it's much safer.

Jeff, down here in the flat heavy clay with equally heavy rainfall, mounded planting is pretty common. I don't doubt your advice, but I was wondering if you elaborate just a bit on why you think it is safer.

Probably the biggest reason would be to stabilize a palm in it's early life when planted. Too many times (including a few of my own when I first started planting in my yard) I saw plants planted with their exposed roots and ended up being unstable. And they just didn't seem to grow like others.

Also, planting high with exposed roots, how will this help with drainage? The most important roots are going to be in the lower portion and still be underground. 12 years ago when I started planting palms in my yard, I was planting them high, thinking they needed better drainage in my heavy black soil, but soon after I was finding this was not the best thing and stopped. Now, everything gets planted at the level it comes out of the pot. This works for me.

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The "broken" frond is no big deal. Just let it flop or you can prune it off if it bothers you. They aren't that sensitive, that palm won't even care if you bit that frond off. I like the contraption though, E for effort.

Haha, thanks. The frond was doing fine, but I finally decided to cut it off. The whole palm seems to be a bit more robust and livelier without that drooping, broken frond.

After seeing the way you treat your palms, would you mind adopting me.

Haha, Funny. Yeah, I suppose I do baby my palms. Not a bad thing though I don't think lol

I've got an update: I went ahead and put down more soil and mulch around the Dwarf Palmetto and my Windmill palm that had the exposed roots. My Dwarf is doing great, but as for my Windmill, I've noticed it has started to droop a bit. During the last 2-3 weeks, since I last posted pics, there has been very little rain yet I have been doing moderate watering every other day for my Windmill. Too much watering? I'm starting to wonder if I put too much soil and mulch around the base and I'm somehow suffocating it. I snapped these quick pictures, a few of them aren't great angles but you'll still see how the bottom fronds are drooping pretty badly. I did have one frond open up completely, which I'm excited about.

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001-1.jpg

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Edited by smithgn
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Hello

Some good choices so far

Have you thought about planting Livistiona chinensis and Livistona australis , both these palms should grow fast in your humid subtropical Summers .

Sabal uresena would be a nice choice too !

Troy

Old Beach ,Hobart
Tasmania ,Australia. 42 " south
Cool Maritime climate

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Hello

Some good choices so far

Have you thought about planting Livistiona chinensis and Livistona australis , both these palms should grow fast in your humid subtropical Summers .

Sabal uresena would be a nice choice too !

Troy

Thank you! I have, actually. I was looking for a chinensis for the last few months that was grown locally, or at least close to my area so that it would be somewhat use to the nippy winters we occasionally get. There were a few for sale but they looked as if they were not a single trunked chinensis, but a clumping type. Is there such thing? I passed up on buying them. Next year around spring time I'm going to look into getting one, or a few, and have them in ground early so they can be established by the time winter comes around.

Edited by smithgn
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Welcome! I actually know where you are in SC as I drive up I26 from Florida to my cabin the the mountains of western North Carolina.

Loews has a number of palm species available in the spring. Try to find a single healthy Livistona chinensis. They don't cluster so it's multiple seeds planted in one container. Not a good look once big IMO. Try Butia capitata, also at lowes in the spring. Anything growing in Columbia should be okay for you.....

Or, bring a truck to South Florida and load er up!

Serenoa/saw palmetto? Needle palm? Other Phoenix species may be good. I'd follow the posts from Northern California, as they have cool winters as well, with lows in the 20s or colder from time to time.

Remember there's always mail order to expand your collection!!

Congrats on your start!!

Rick Leitner

Fort Lauderdale, Florida

26.07N/80.15W

Zone 10B

Average Annual Low 67 F

Average Annual High 84 F

Average Annual Rainfall 62"

 

Riverfront exposure, 1 mile from Atlantic Ocean

Part time in the western mountains of North Carolina

Gratefully, the best of both worlds!

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Welcome! I actually know where you are in SC as I drive up I26 from Florida to my cabin the the mountains of western North Carolina.

Loews has a number of palm species available in the spring. Try to find a single healthy Livistona chinensis. They don't cluster so it's multiple seeds planted in one container. Not a good look once big IMO. Try Butia capitata, also at lowes in the spring. Anything growing in Columbia should be okay for you.....

Or, bring a truck to South Florida and load er up!

Serenoa/saw palmetto? Needle palm? Other Phoenix species may be good. I'd follow the posts from Northern California, as they have cool winters as well, with lows in the 20s or colder from time to time.

Remember there's always mail order to expand your collection!!

Congrats on your start!!

Agreed, wasn't very good looking. I actually just planted a Butia not too long ago, haven't taken any pictures of it yet but at the same time its hard to keep my dogs from digging around it! Luckily the Butia doesn't seemed too bothered by it.

And yeah, I realize my Phoenix Canarienesis will be the borderline palm that I have. I'll certainly take heed of your advice and look up some of those posts. Thank you for the advice!

Does anyone have any input about my Trachy, in the pictures (#16) above? Its seeming to have gotten a bit worse and the outer fronds are drooping a bit more. One of the fronds has considerably gotten light brown and has that sortove dry feel to it. Like I said, we haven't had any significant rain in a good while after that continuous downpour we had earlier in the summer. Could that be the problem? I watered it a good bit yesterday but I haven't seen any major difference. I'll continue watering it and see if anything changes. Also, have laid the soil too high around the base of it? Before it was pointed out that my roots were exposed and shortly after that I put a good bit of soil at the base so as to cover them up. What would be the side effects of laying too much/too high soil and mulch around a palm like this?

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I suspect that your Dwarf Palmetto may be Sabal palmetto, not Sabal minor. The very upright form, heel and such strike me as Sabal palmetto. All my Sabal minor seedlings tend to lay down a little more, even in tight quarters.

Longview, Texas :: Record Low: -5F, Feb. 16, 2021 :: Borderline 8A/8B :: '06-'07: 18F / '07-'08: 21F / '08-'09: 21F / '09-'10: 14F / '10-'11: 15F / '11-'12: 24F / '12-'13: 23F / '13-'14: 15F / '14-'15: 20F / '15-'16: 27F / '16-'17: 15F / '17-'18: 8F / '18-'19: 23F / '19-'20: 19F / '20-'21: -5F / '21-'22: 20F / '22-'23: 6F

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I actually lived in Irmo about 5 years ago for 9 months.You should be fine with the Sabal, though I would give it protection in the winters until it gets trunk, because you're outside the range of natural reproduction of Sabal palmetto, but they grow when transplanted big so I would just worry about it getting damaged until then. The windmill is pretty bulletproof for your area, so I would plant a more of those, because those were the tallest palms that I saw when I lived there. You should give Butia eriospatha a try, as well as saw palmetto (there's supposedly a blue population from an area in Georgia that is hardier than other varieties, as per the claims of rarepalmseeds here: http://rarepalmseeds.com/pix/SerGeoSil.shtml) and the needle palm.

I would worry about the Phoenix, because I think you're just too cold for them to be long term in Irmo. Also keep in mind that you have the option of buying some palms that you transport indoors in the winter. Howea forsteriana is a sure bet, and I saw them sometimes at big box stores there. I actually have 2 of these palms now that I bought when I lived there that are still alive and well.

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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I suspect that your Dwarf Palmetto may be Sabal palmetto, not Sabal minor. The very upright form, heel and such strike me as Sabal palmetto. All my Sabal minor seedlings tend to lay down a little more, even in tight quarters.

Hmmm...really? I bought it from a trusted local nursery. I can't remember the brand, but it was a company in Florida I believe that grew it. It had a little tag on it and everything identifying it as a dwarf palmetto. Could be wrong though. I myself was surprised at how tall it was, as with some research it tends to grow no more than 6-8 feet. I guess I'll just have to watch it as it grows and see what it turns out to be! I do agree in that it is very "upright". Although, it does seem to clump. Also, if it was a sabal palmetto, wouldn't it have already developed a trunk?

I actually lived in Irmo about 5 years ago for 9 months.You should be fine with the Sabal, though I would give it protection in the winters until it gets trunk, because you're outside the range of natural reproduction of Sabal palmetto, but they grow when transplanted big so I would just worry about it getting damaged until then. The windmill is pretty bulletproof for your area, so I would plant a more of those, because those were the tallest palms that I saw when I lived there. You should give Butia eriospatha a try, as well as saw palmetto (there's supposedly a blue population from an area in Georgia that is hardier than other varieties, as per the claims of rarepalmseeds here: http://rarepalmseeds.com/pix/SerGeoSil.shtml) and the needle palm.

I would worry about the Phoenix, because I think you're just too cold for them to be long term in Irmo. Also keep in mind that you have the option of buying some palms that you transport indoors in the winter. Howea forsteriana is a sure bet, and I saw them sometimes at big box stores there. I actually have 2 of these palms now that I bought when I lived there that are still alive and well.

Ha, how about that? How nice it is to come across another fellow Irmite, or former Irmite, I should say. To be honest, I'm not all that concerned about my sabal- I've got it positioned near the road and it seems to be a pretty cold hardy plant. I'd be surprised if it reaches the teens this winter- it rarely does. But I still will keep an eye on it, of course. And yeah, you see Windmills everywhere. There's one in particular in the front yard of someones house off of Irmo Drive that I swear is well above 20 feet tall.

Yeah, the Phoenix is definitely a gamble. I'm really going to keep a close watch on it and take proper precautions when it starts to get real nippy outside. I've already decided that I'm going to lay more mulch around the base and add some black rocks that I have around the base of the palm to keep it warm. If it gets too bad outside, I'll probably put a cardboard box over it temporarily, especially if it snows. Do all of these sound like a good idea to keep it "warmer" through the winter?

Thanks for the suggestions- never heard of Howea Forsteriana, but it looks beautiful. Will keep that in mind for next year.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey everybody, here to update for those interested. I wanted to update on my Windmill Palm. In the beginning of September, after I added soil & mulch to the base of the palm to cover the exposed roots, I noticed that the bottom fronds started to wilt a bit. After the course of a few weeks they began to turn brown, starting from the tip of the fronds all the way to near the base of the branch. I started by clipping 4 of the very brown fronds, that looked as if they couldn't be saved. At first, I thought I was getting all these brown fronds due to a newly opened spear with two very quickly on the way. Now I'm starting to doubt this as I now have 4 mostly brown fronds, with 5 fairly healthy, green fronds and 2 spears on the way. And this is after I clipped 4 brown fronds. The 5 "fairly" healthy fronds, even the newest frond, are showing signs of weakening as they aren't stiff and strong as they were before. I've posted a few pics below. Anyone have any ideas? I'm starting to think this is the beginning of the end and I need to act real soon.

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Here's the newest frond, already looking a bit weak.

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You can also probably notice in these pictures that I've removed the extra layer of soil and mulch that I had at the base of my Trachy. I did this 3 days ago to let it breath a little bit and see if this was the culprit of the problem.

Edited by smithgn
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How much soil did you add? Did you cover up the trunk? If so, how far up? Palms aren't like tomato plants. As you alluded to, they can't be buried and survive.

I'm not an expert in palm ailments so hopefully someone else jumps in with some thoughts. But it does look to me like something isn't quite right.

Until more knowledgeable folks wiegh in, you might try giving the palm a healthy dousing of hydrogen peroxide. Pour into the crown and around the trunk where the soil was in contact with the trunk.

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Looks more like the rootball dried out, which is a common occurrence with freshly planted palms that are planted high. All of your plants are planted high, which is good to prevent fungus, but then you need to make sure you are supplying drip. You need to place a drip line right on top of the rootball right next to the trunk.

If you don't have drip, then take a hose and put a nozzle on it. Don't open the nozzle but slightly unscrew the nozzle from the hose so that it leaks, i.e. drips, and place that on top of the rootball. You may need to make a little swale to keep the drip from running off the plant.

You will probably loose most of the fronds but the spear should be fine and the palm will come back.

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How much soil did you add? Did you cover up the trunk? If so, how far up? Palms aren't like tomato plants. As you alluded to, they can't be buried and survive.

I'm not an expert in palm ailments so hopefully someone else jumps in with some thoughts. But it does look to me like something isn't quite right.

Until more knowledgeable folks wiegh in, you might try giving the palm a healthy dousing of hydrogen peroxide. Pour into the crown and around the trunk where the soil was in contact with the trunk.

I didn't add all that much. Don't have an exact measurement offhand, but I just added enough around the immediate base of the palm to cover up the roots that were showing. I then patted it down to ensure it wouldn't slide off from any watering. After removing the soil that I placed around the base, I did notice that I did slightly cover the base, very slightly. Hydrogen peroxide, gotcha. I'll research a bit more on this and probably give it a try. Thank you so much.

Looks more like the rootball dried out, which is a common occurrence with freshly planted palms that are planted high. All of your plants are planted high, which is good to prevent fungus, but then you need to make sure you are supplying drip. You need to place a drip line right on top of the rootball right next to the trunk.

If you don't have drip, then take a hose and put a nozzle on it. Don't open the nozzle but slightly unscrew the nozzle from the hose so that it leaks, i.e. drips, and place that on top of the rootball. You may need to make a little swale to keep the drip from running off the plant.

You will probably loose most of the fronds but the spear should be fine and the palm will come back.

Interesting. Well whats funny is this JUST started happening at the beginning of this month. I planted this Trachy sometime in May of this year and it was planted high at the time. Great information though, thanks for sharing all of this with me. I've actually done what you said and began to build this swale (hooray for learning new words!). This way the water doesn't run off like it was doing before. I'll post back in a few weeks and take some pictures and see if there are any changes. Again, thanks so much y'all for the insight- as a beginner I'm soaking (no pun intended) all of this up.

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