Sabal Id

[NorCalWill]

I would like to collect seeds from this Sabal, but I don't know what it is... S. palmetto?

[NorCalWill]

[paulgila]

i dont see any seeds

[NorCalWill]

I don't either, but I'm assuming at some point there will be some...

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Where is this palm Growing? That might provide a clue. If in somoma county My guess is s. riverside, or maybe even mexicana.. Trunk is too fat for palmetto.

[Ken Johnson]

That is a nice looking Sabal for the left coast! I'm going with Mex but it is only a guess.

[NorCalWill]

Yes, they were planted in front of a Dr. office in Santa Rosa a couple of years ago.

[gyuseppe]

for me ,is mexicana

in the botanical garden of naples,There are almost all species of sabal

http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Sabal/etonia.html

Figures 1&2)

http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Sabal/bermudana.html

Figure 2

[NorCalWill]

I found another clue in Id'ing this Sabal.

I went back today to look at the developing inflorescence and noticed a small cluster of seeds tucked inside a cut leaf base from the last bloom.

The seeds were big, plumb, and looked fairly fresh, so I grabbed a handful (I didn't ask the owner of the building, because it is vacant and for sale).

Upon peeling off the flesh, I found the seed inside to be pretty small, unlike the S. blackburniana seeds I was working on earlier this week.

Does this look familiar to anyone?

[NorCalWill]

Also notice the difference in color of the seeds.

Black (?) on the left, and reddish brown (Blackburniana) on the right...

Edited August 4, 2013 by Will

[Ken Johnson]

Remember "blackburniana" is not a species so we don't "know" what it looks like. The fat fruit looks fat. I'm not sure what to think about the seed size except small.

I may have to change my opinion and if I say Blackburniana then I am really going out on a limb!

[NorCalWill]

Yea, I am still confused about the name 'Blackburniana'.

Some people use the name, some don't.

Different resources say different things about it...

I don't know what to think, and I don't think anyone really knows.

[sarasota alex]

S. bermudana.

A strongly pyriform fruit with such a thick pericarp can only happen with S. bermudana, S. domingensis or S. guatemalensis. Inflorescences of the latter two are much different than what's in the initial picture.

[NorCalWill]

Good observation Alex.

Yes, the pericarp is slightly pyriform, and thick with a small seed inside.

Is the seed of S. bermudana smaller in comparison to other Sabal varieties?

The leaves are not the dark, rich green that I have seen on other bermudana's, but that could be because of other factors I suppose.

To my untrained eye, Sabal varieties are difficult to distinguish from one another.

I appreciate you pointing out some of the subtle differences.

Now I would like to see the inflorescence of dominigensis and guatemalensis for comparison.

...so much more to learn....

Edited August 5, 2013 by Will

[NorCalWill]

Could someone describe the inflorescence characteristics, the pericarp shape, and the seed size of S. 'Riverside' please?

[Kris]

will

I had germinated few sabal riverside, but I have observed that the seeds were big in size and the leaves tip of srs palm usually dropes.and the leaf colour of srs is dark green with some blue tint to it.

so Iam sure the seeds that you collected are from s.mexicana/texas sabal.I have germinated few mexianas too.indeed your seeds resembles to s.mexicana.

and the still in your picture has a very beautiful crisscross dried fronds section which is common to s.mexicana.

kindly check the seeds section of s.mexicana in rps.com site,they had a still of a mature specimen.

love,

kris.

[Sabal Steve]

These are pictures of the seeds that I collected. From my experience with Sabal species, which is limited, the seeds of many species look similar. This was from a smaller Sabal which hadn't quite matured yet, but seemed to have a significant number of fronds that had emerged in a rather dense formation.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Sabal Steve

[Sabal Steve]

More pics of the parent plant. It was about 6 feet tall.

Any thoughts on the species? S. Bermudana perhaps?

To those who might be from the area, this is in the bottom of Palm Canyon at Balboa Park, San Diego.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Sabal Steve

[Sabal Steve]

Also, I noticed another palm at the top of Palm Canyon, which I will refer to as "Sabal #2" for reference sake. I collected seed from this one as well, although I don't have pictures of them. The seed looked the same, but the crown didn't seem to be nearly as full and appeared to be a different species. These plants were around 10' - 12' feet or so tall.

I noticed that the undersides of the leaves had a bluish tinge. It didn't appear to me to be S. Yapa or S. Mauritiformis...

[sarasota alex]

Welcome to the forum Steve. I know exactly which Sabal you are talking about in the post with the seed photo. It's been fruiting profusely for at least a couple of years now, but all this time the seeds have been underdeveloped, such as the ones in your picture. Completely sterile. It's also been puzzling me for a while with a mixture of anatomical features. Because of all this I believe that it may be a hybrid (as much as I believe that Sabal hybridization is a very rare occurrence, contrary to the popular opinion).

The next one could be S. rosei. There is a mature group of Sabal rosei on the other side of the Palm Canyon.

[Sabal Steve]

That would make sense. That's one of the species that I haven't paid much attention to. I don't know what to make of the seeds, but it sounds like they may be duds. My first attempt at germination - I have about 12 species that I am currently attempting. We shall see. I picked up a large Sabal today. Not sure the exact species at this either.

This is the big guy in my driveway here. It's partially field grown (it split the last 24" box) so I got it transplanted in a 30" and I've got in on a regimen of water and root stimulant. Any thoughts on improving the success/transplant rate into dense clay soil? I'm planning on amending with 2' of cactus soil for the base.

[Sabal Steve]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10100686743876937&set=a.10100686742554587.1073741827.37603342&type=3&theater

[Sabal Steve]

I'm planning on leaving the fronds tied for the time being and for a few months after transplanting.

[palm tree man]

That looks like a hybrid to me as well, sorry I just saw this older post. Have you gotten any more info on that mystery palm Steve?