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Spring Planting - Who wants to start a betting pool on what dies


_Keith

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So, this spring I planted 22 new palms in my garden, in Zone 9a. Who wants to start a betting pool on what will still be alive this time next year. All were seedlings, 3 years and older. They will receive very minimal winter protection, if any at all.

5 Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova')
1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus)
3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba)
2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver')
4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom')
1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens)

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti)

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens)

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii)

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it)

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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What is a supernova queen?

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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These came from the late John Bishock. I have found very little about them. Here are some Palmtalk referfences

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/3270-syagrus-supernova/

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/2807-queen-palms/

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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So, this spring I planted 22 new palms in my garden, in Zone 9a. Who wants to start a betting pool on what will still be alive this time next year. All were seedlings, 3 years and older. They will receive very minimal winter protection, if any at all.

5 Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova')

1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus)

3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba)

2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver')

4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom')

1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens)

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti)

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens)

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii)

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it)

If those bismarckia are what you posted in the main forum for ID, then I'd say they're not bismarckia, but sabals. I don't see anything on your list that should croak on you unless you get below the 20F mark. At that point you're probably looking at mostly damage but I still doubt you're gonna loose any of this stuff unless you're below freezing during the day as well. In that case your sabal, trachy and silver saw palmetto will certainly be unfazed, as to the rest, who knows. If I had to wager on which one you'd loose, I'd say the urens is the least hardy of the bunch. The copernicia in Argentina takes 20F no problem.

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These came from the late John Bishock. I have found very little about them. Here are some Palmtalk referfences

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/3270-syagrus-supernova/

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/2807-queen-palms/

Thanks! They sound interesting. It will be nice in a couple of years to compare 'Supernova', 'Abre Ojos', and 'Mountain Giant' to see what differences there are between these robust cultivars. Not to mention to see how the slender hardy forms out of Uruguay and Paraguay end up looking!

I'd vote on the Urens dying first. I havent had much luck here with Caryota, even in warm winters.

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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I'll take long odds on the pygmy date palm, just to be different and pessimistic...

:D

"Ph'nglui mglw'napalma Funkthulhu R'Lincolnea wgah'palm fhtagn"
"In his house at Lincoln, dread Funkthulhu plants palm trees."

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So, this spring I planted 22 new palms in my garden, in Zone 9a. Who wants to start a betting pool on what will still be alive this time next year. All were seedlings, 3 years and older. They will receive very minimal winter protection, if any at all.

5 Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova')

1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus)

3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba)

2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver')

4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom')

1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens)

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti)

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens)

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii)

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it)

If you reach your minimum I think PR, DD and CU are the first candidates to depart.

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So, this spring I planted 22 new palms in my garden, in Zone 9a. Who wants to start a betting pool on what will still be alive this time next year. All were seedlings, 3 years and older. They will receive very minimal winter protection, if any at all.

5 Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova')

1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus)

3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba)

2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver')

4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom')

1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens)

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti)

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens)

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii)

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it)

If you reach your minimum I think PR, DD and CU are the first candidates to depart.

I wouldnt bet on that DD dying from cold. Mine has gone through an extended 9a low with very little damage, just covered by a pillowcase. They seem to be very cold hardy here in the hot SE US. Its more about getting them established which is the difficult part.

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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  • 3 weeks later...

I don't like the fishtail odds.... B) . Any gifts for the winners?

I'd take my chances on the fishtails over the pygmy's...but they'll be close. Ive had a little better success with Fishtail (caryota urens and gigas) then i've had with phoenix robelenii. and as far as the "cold hardy green form" bizmarckia, I've always been under the impression that the green Bizmarcks are more cold sensitive than the "pink" variety (when they're that young). --oops, did i say it? Not sure about the phoenix theo, probably okay. good luck whatever the case, but If i had to put money on your best performer, i'm going with...Phoenix Dactylifera.

Living in the valley of the dirt people in the inland empire, "A mullet on every head and a methlab in every kitchen." If you can't afford to live in the tropics, then bring the tropics to you!

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Ill put my money on the caryota. Things seem touchy when first planted.

"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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  • 1 month later...

So, this spring I planted 22 new palms in my garden, in Zone 9a. Who wants to start a betting pool on what will still be alive this time next year. All were seedlings, 3 years and older. They will receive very minimal winter protection, if any at all.

5 Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova')

1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus)

3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba)

2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver')

4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom')

1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens)

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti)

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens)

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii)

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it)

I'd like to see some photos first Keith, like, whether they have overhead protection of any sort etc., or too much shade if wet.

I'm going to say it sorry, the green form of Bismarkia is.....no I won't say it.

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't like the fishtail odds.... B) . Any gifts for the winners?

I concur, fishtail is toast. Decipiens will be dead before it gets cold.

Keith, I'm totally kidding. Good luck on all of these. I would say that other than the two I already mentioned, all the rest should be fine. The pigmy date palm will probably get defoliated yearly, but if its anything like the one I had at my old house, it will look pretty good by summer, assuming you planted it in an area with overhead protection.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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I don't like the fishtail odds.... B) . Any gifts for the winners?

I concur, fishtail is toast. Decipiens will be dead before it gets cold.

Keith, I'm totally kidding. Good luck on all of these. I would say that other than the two I already mentioned, all the rest should be fine. The pigmy date palm will probably get defoliated yearly, but if its anything like the one I had at my old house, it will look pretty good by summer, assuming you planted it in an area with overhead protection.

Once decipiens gets established it's a fairly easy grow, or at least it has been for me. The cold of '09 and '10 didn't bother it too much.

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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I don't like the fishtail odds.... B) . Any gifts for the winners?

I concur, fishtail is toast. Decipiens will be dead before it gets cold.

Keith, I'm totally kidding. Good luck on all of these. I would say that other than the two I already mentioned, all the rest should be fine. The pigmy date palm will probably get defoliated yearly, but if its anything like the one I had at my old house, it will look pretty good by summer, assuming you planted it in an area with overhead protection.

Once decipiens gets established it's a fairly easy grow, or at least it has been for me. The cold of '09 and '10 didn't bother it too much.

Krishna,

How long have you had it in the ground?

You're one of two people I know who have had success with this palm in north Florida. Please start a thread to update us on your progress with this plant. Hopefully others have had success and will chime in. I've basically just not even bothered with trying this one.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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It's been in ground for 5 or 6 years now? I haven't posted much about it because there wasn't much response to it when I posted updates a whole back. I think there might be a photo of it from this spring in my updates thread.

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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I'll take long odds on the pygmy date palm, just to be different and pessimistic...

:D

I rescind this bet. I just repotted mine and it is going like gang-busters...

"Ph'nglui mglw'napalma Funkthulhu R'Lincolnea wgah'palm fhtagn"
"In his house at Lincoln, dread Funkthulhu plants palm trees."

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Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova')
1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus) (maybe it will defoliate)
3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba) (very tough!)
2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver') (youn seedlings suffered speerpull here, but reovered)
4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom')
1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens)(I´ve not much hope for it)

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti)(bullet proof...?)

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens) (who knows/)

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii) (young seedling will die. A trunking palm will defoliate but can recover)

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it) ..............The silver form is coldhardier!

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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It's has been another long cloudy cooler than normal rainy summer. Most of these seedling have not shown much growth, but I assume are putting down serious roots. They have been well fed, but I assume wanted more sun and heat to get a true foothold. We will see. Soon I will have to decide what to give minimal winter protection, if any, and depending our winter which is widely variable. I'll do an update come fall. Everything today still alive, but I would call non as thriving.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Keith I was thinking for seedlings we can use very large Rubbermaid type storage containers flipped upside down as a tiny greenhouse

Oh and if this is a cool summer I'd hate to see a hot one!

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  • 2 months later...

Well, winter has not even started yet and 3 of the 4 Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom' are goners. The summer was just too constantly wet. Fungal diseases did them in. The 4th just might make it.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Keith, did you get any fungal leaf spots? Those pretty coconuts you saw are getting them bad.... I think its all the rain on the leaves. I'm sure people will chime in and say no its the climate, but, you can't get much more tropical than highs high 80s and lows high 70s for 4 straight months.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom' will be the first to go <_<

Followed by the Caryota

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom' will be the first to go <_<

Followed by the Caryota

I think one might make it, but the other 3 are all but dead already. Summer was too wet for them.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom' will be the first to go <_<

Followed by the Caryota

I think one might make it, but the other 3 are all but dead already. Summer was too wet for them.

The Serenoa aren't looking very good either. They wanted more sun, more heat, and more dry.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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They were silver, but all rain and little sun has them green and blotchy. I amended the area heavily with sand, and mounded, too. No, I did not adjust for ph. Thanks, I will need to check that. I think they will be fine, if we can just get a normal summer. Our normal summer rainfall is 56 inches. Last 12 consecutive months was over 100" and this calendar year will likely come in easily over 80". And to think just 3 years ago, we broke an all time, since records have been kept, drought. Weather is wacky here for sure.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Keith, you and I seemingly have same soil structure (ok probably you have added more organics), but you are in a plain and I am on a hill slope. This can be the cause for a huge diffrerence in ph (http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/222.html). My soli is alkaline and I face greate difficulties with not alkaline tolerating palms (probably I have also free lime in the soil, because acidification process always fails), but the silver Serenoa thrives in such soil, and maybe I have the sole specimen in the Med that fruits also. I am not sure, but perhaps also this factor should be investigated when it comes to cultivation of Serenoa.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The first test will come early this year. I may break down and afford some of them a little protection.

Today
Nov 25 12.gif Rain 45°/43° 80 % Tue
Nov 26 11.gif Showers 47°/34° 90 % Wed
Nov 27 32.gif Sunny 47°/26° 10 % Thu
Nov 28 30.gif Partly Cloudy 52°/30° 0 % Fri
Nov 29 32.gif Sunny 60°/34° 0 %

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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my silver serenoa looked to be declining the first 1-2 years, and they are in very sandy soil. Planted as 3 gallon size with 2-3 growing points each, I had spears pulling on some trunks due to too much wet. After the subterranean trunks grew in, the top really started to grow, they are now silver again too... This is a palm where the important action is in getting established is below the soil. If I were you keith, I might cover then from rain to get them established faster.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Well, I broke down and am doing minimal protections on about half of the more tender seedlings. I put an upside down 5-gallon bucket over them. That might keep them just above freezing, but they will get plenty cold

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Early results are in. Even under a bucket, the Caryota looks horrible, 50% foliage lost. Little to no chance it will make the winter. The C. abla blotched up a bit as well, but too early to tell the damage.

On the good news site, the 4 Supernova Queens, some of which took direct frost two nights in a row are fine.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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How are the alfredii after the frost?

The alfredii were fine with the 30/31 temps, but will never see frost in their current location under Live Oak canopy.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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