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First sub- 30's nights of the season


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almost zero breeze and 32.7F at front mailbox at 7 am

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."

"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

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Up until the last two nights I was feeling pretty good. Was hovering around 32/33 at coldest part of the yard, with bananas and Pritchardias (which are by far the first to freeze for me) looking fine. But the last two nights were the worst at 30 and 29. The top of the hill I think stayed above freezing, some sensitive plants look fine up there. But even some more exposed Pritchardias on the upper part of the property took some damage. Nothing new in my crappy microclimate, but this month has definitely been exceptional...every night but one has been below 40F, and most below 35F.

As for forecasts, I'm finding that Weather Underground has the most accurate. If you can find a reporting station near you and calibrate your temperature to it, they're spot on. It looks to me like they have their forecasts calibrated for each station on the site (must be automatic), and at least in SoCal, there are several stations reporting in each neighborhood.

Len, check out the Shadowridge station on wunderground.com. I looked at the previous four nights and it was 3F lower than you every night. So add three degrees to their forecasts (click "current conditions" when you're on the station page) and you should be good. Guessing you hit 34F last night.

Matt

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San Diego

0.6 Acres of a south facing, gently sloped dirt pile, soon to be impenetrable jungle

East of Mount Soledad, in the biggest cold sink in San Diego County.

Zone 10a (I hope), Sunset 24

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last night my house was cold as heck at 5:00 am

woke me up and i looked outside

deal calm - not one drop of wind

no frost - but crazy little sparkles on the grass in the back yard - not sure what to call it

looked at the weatherunderground map for all of southern cal and there werre ALOT of areas under 32F

not just places you would expect like Santee or Escondido but crazy areas right near the beach like Chula Vista and near La Jolla

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I broke yesterday's record of coldest I've ever recorded: 35.8 f.

The map that Burt posted was pretty cool. Crazy how Matt's old neighborhood in Linda Vista is reading 40f! Man that is a great microclimate, perched on the rim of Tecolote Canyon. Too bad you had to move, but I guess you don't like getting shot and stabbed everyday. Whimp. Maybe it's all the heat from the gunfire that keeps the temps up. Or the stabbing is releasing body heat into the atmosphere, making it warmer. Probably. I think I figured that out. You're welcome.

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Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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32.4 was my minimum. It managed to stay just a hair above freezing this entire cold event. A warmup starts this afternoon. I notice some frost damage on exposed climbing philodendron leaves and the uppermost leaves of some of my heliconia but nothing showing yet on any palms.

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

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Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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btw Steve... frost is a factor of 2 things temp and humidity... A. has to be 32F "somewhere on a surface" B. the humidity has to be there in order for it to form!

The drier, less humid it is, the overall out door temp must go to "find" enough moisture to form frost.

And sadly, I agree with you Bob..

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."

"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

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31F put the "low" back in "lowlando!"

33F when i got up at 8:10am. :indifferent:

the "prince of snarkness."

 

still "warning-free."

 

san diego,california,left coast.

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For my property, this is worse than 2007. Although I hadn't moved in as of January 2007 (we moved in summer '07), I did know my neighbor and his hi/low is just about 100 feet from my house. In 2007 he hit 37f on the coldest night. So as far as my place goes, 2013 is definitely the worst since 1990. I don't know what the temps were in 1990.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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2007 was much worse for me with temps in the low 20s for 3-4 nights in a row.

the "prince of snarkness."

 

still "warning-free."

 

san diego,california,left coast.

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34.3 briefly for the low this morning. No frost at all on the ground for any night, and believe me, I was up early checking ( maybe because my kids wake me up so early ). I took off all of my protection I had up for 5 days. I am seeing some slight spotting on some plants but nothing major. I think I got more damage from stuff being wrapped and boxed up than anything.

All and all I thought it was a great experience because I learned so much from all if you and talking about the weather, I did get really lucky. No frost and the lowest i've ever recorded here in 4 years was the first 2 days at 32.9. When we bought the place in Feb 2009 the neighbors had some very large, perfect looking bananas so that tells me my neighborhood did well in 2007. It would make sense Matty and Steve that I got hit with my lowest the first 2 days, and it floated down to your areas for the last 1-2 days being as I am up here in N. County.

Hopefully this will be the last cold event for at least the next decade or better yet century.

Grateful to have what I have, Les amis de mes amis sont mes amis!

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I broke yesterday's record of coldest I've ever recorded: 35.8 f.

The map that Burt posted was pretty cool. Crazy how Matt's old neighborhood in Linda Vista is reading 40f! Man that is a great microclimate, perched on the rim of Tecolote Canyon. Too bad you had to move, but I guess you don't like getting shot and stabbed everyday. Whimp. Maybe it's all the heat from the gunfire that keeps the temps up. Or the stabbing is releasing body heat into the atmosphere, making it warmer. Probably. I think I figured that out. You're welcome.

That neighborhood gives a new meaning to "packin heat"! Thats the hard thing about finding a good spot to live, One of the best microclimates in oceanside is not the best neighborhood.

Grateful to have what I have, Les amis de mes amis sont mes amis!

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All and all I thought it was a great experience because I learned so much from all if you and talking about the weather, I diddid get really lucky.

Hopefully this will be the last cold event for at least the next decade or better yet century.

Amen!

Looks like my lowest measured temp was 32°. Was hoping for z11 microclimate when I moved here. Squeaked out z10a through this event. Maybe with some canopy I can get it back to a 10b or even z11 in mild years. Here's to the glass half full.

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Yesterday's weather journey:

I got home from vacation last night to San Diego Airport at midnight. I took note of my cars thermometer in some of the extremes on the way home to San Marcos (route, 5N, 8E, 163N, 15N, 78W).

SD Airport: 45

Mission Valley: 38

Clairmont Mesa: 40

Mira Mesa: 35

Rancho Bernardi: 40

Escondido: 37

My driveway: 33

This is cold after being in Maui for six days with the low around 70.

28 was the low in my artic micro climate(lowest in the 5 years I been in my house). I think its time to plant an apple orchard.

Northern San Diego County, Inland

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one thing i got to see from this event is where frost will end up in my yard. my 2 side yards didnt have frost all. i think its due to the houses being about 15 feet apart. front and backyards get hammered.

jastin- i dont think the boxes caused any damage. i used a box to cover a papaya and it didnt get any damage at all. it was stuffed in there too. this thing would melt at 32

"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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Maybe Steve. I was talking more on the thick fabric like landscape cloth that i wrapped a few palms in - like my foxtail. it was only damaged by the parts that were touching the outside. With the boxes, I was talking about the bent leaves and rock that I was stupid enough to set on top of a box, that fell through and jacked up one of my small palms.

Grateful to have what I have, Les amis de mes amis sont mes amis!

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Yeah, I got to 29F last night. I keep hearing about a warmup, but certainly not yet. Still, 2007 got much colder for me. As of last night, my Heliconias were starting to fry, my spindle palm is spotting pretty good & a Dypsis pembana is brozed a bit. But nothing is black (yet), so that's good. But I haven't seen the effects of last night in the daylight yet.

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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Dang sorry Bret. But don't fret (Bret), because my Spinkle palms are totally getting ripped out too. They are just getting too cold burned, year after year, and the overhang of the house isn't helping. It'll just make room for some cooler, nicer looking, palms.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Dang sorry Bret. But don't fret (Bret), because my Spinkle palms are totally getting ripped out too. They are just getting too cold burned, year after year, and the overhang of the house isn't helping. It'll just make room for some cooler, nicer looking, palms.

My Benticias don't have a spot on them after all of this, even the dried out 1 gal that I left exposed to test it. I saw 32.9. Just sayin...those are cooler and nicer than a spotty spindle.

Grateful to have what I have, Les amis de mes amis sont mes amis!

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Dang sorry Bret. But don't fret (Bret), because my Spinkle palms are totally getting ripped out too. They are just getting too cold burned, year after year, and the overhang of the house isn't helping. It'll just make room for some cooler, nicer looking, palms.

My Benticias don't have a spot on them after all of this, even the dried out 1 gal that I left exposed to test it. I saw 32.9. Just sayin...those are cooler and nicer than a spotty spindle.

Yup, these are pretty friggin' amazing things. How they got this cold hardy being where they're from is beyond me.

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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Up until the last two nights I was feeling pretty good. Was hovering around 32/33 at coldest part of the yard, with bananas and Pritchardias (which are by far the first to freeze for me) looking fine. But the last two nights were the worst at 30 and 29. The top of the hill I think stayed above freezing, some sensitive plants look fine up there. But even some more exposed Pritchardias on the upper part of the property took some damage. Nothing new in my crappy microclimate, but this month has definitely been exceptional...every night but one has been below 40F, and most below 35F.

As for forecasts, I'm finding that Weather Underground has the most accurate. If you can find a reporting station near you and calibrate your temperature to it, they're spot on. It looks to me like they have their forecasts calibrated for each station on the site (must be automatic), and at least in SoCal, there are several stations reporting in each neighborhood.

Len, check out the Shadowridge station on wunderground.com. I looked at the previous four nights and it was 3F lower than you every night. So add three degrees to their forecasts (click "current conditions" when you're on the station page) and you should be good. Guessing you hit 34F last night.

Matt

It's individual's weather stations that are linking to Weather Underground. It is not their stations. It is great to have all these stations, but a concern I have how they are positioned. Are they posting accurate temps?

Huntington Beach, CA

USDA Zone 10a/10b

Sunset Zone 24

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k

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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I totally agree Joe. I have found them to be way off for me.

Grateful to have what I have, Les amis de mes amis sont mes amis!

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So far, knock on wood, this is going much better than 2007 at my place. The only noticeable damage is some minor spotting here and there, and some leaf burn on very thin-leafed plants (Delostoma, Bolusanthus). Oh, and the usual damage to Ficus dammaropsis, but that happens pretty much every winter.

Resident of San Diego, CA and Pahoa, HI.  Former garden in Vista, CA.  Garden Photos

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34f at 6am, anyone ever remember such a prolonged and widespread cold event in Cal? I don't, and I been around awhile.

2007 was four days of mid-20s for me.

Though we might hit the four-day mark, this hasn't been nearly as cold.

I got 32 F and 26 FF in the back and back forty respectively. Baby bizzies in the back forty looking fat and happy as Pancho Villa with yo-Sheila and shots of tequila . . . (so far)

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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All and all I thought it was a great experience because I learned so much from all if you and talking about the weather, I diddid get really lucky.

Hopefully this will be the last cold event for at least the next decade or better yet century.

Amen!

Looks like my lowest measured temp was 32°. Was hoping for z11 microclimate when I moved here. Squeaked out z10a through this event. Maybe with some canopy I can get it back to a 10b or even z11 in mild years. Here's to the glass half full.

Considering your great appreciation location, you made a great deal, all things considered.

And you don't even get the heat from gunfire, police copters or stabbings like other warmer places do. (Imagine the climactic benefits of some real mayhem . . . :))

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Wunderground is very useful for the local weather stations with a few caveats. Some of the stations that are amateur/home setups are improperly sited, either too close to structures or concrete, at the wrong height, without proper sun/wind/radiative loss enclosure, or with low precision electronics. If you look at the graphs for various stations some go offline, showing a flatline, and report the same temp from say midnight to 8am when it is turned back on. Some graphs seem to move up and down in temp through the night which could be mixing winds picking up but, might also be a furnace or other heat generating equipment turning on and off. Have to exclude those reports. The government or science affiliated stations such as airports, fire stations, CDF field offices, MADIS network, or the RAWS network are usually more accurate. But there are well sited hobbyist stations you just have to research those in a given area and remember which ones seem to give sensible data. The Weather Channel has purchased Wunderground.com and announced they will not tamper with it's operations but I've already noticed changes. The forecasting might be deteriorating at Wunderground since the purchase, as they sometimes alter predictions a few times a day. Any outlook beyond 3 days tends to be less reliable. Wunderground's station network and wundermap are still better than Weather.com and at least in the past they were the only site to predict the inversion days correctly when the Valley is cold and foggy while the foothills are sunny and "warm" above the soup. Accuweather.com is a joke, as no one there understands elevation, microclimates, inversions, or the effects of California's ocean influence very well. They often give the forecast for Blue Canyon Airport (4700' el./ USDA 7b) or Marysville (100' el./USDA 9b) for Rough and Ready (1800' el/USDA 9a) with no rhyme or reason. Weather.com is hardly any better. I've found weather.gov/NOAA's site has really improved in the last few years and now has the most accurate forecasts for micro-climates. Weatherbase.com has an additional network of fairly accurate weather stations.

Overall Wunderground is still the best.

Here are a few links on weather station networks: Citizen Weather Observer Program (CWOP), MADIS meteorlogical network, Mesonet Wiki, U.S. Hydrometeorlogical Networks Map.

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Living in a valley/mountain situation I appreciate that WeatherUnderground has the local site stations for info. Did not find this to be true for Intellicast.com unless I'm missing something. With the microclimates within our area, one monitoring station, located who knows where, isn't that accurate. Probably more successful in wide open flat areas. Interesting enough I noticed that Intellicast is a member of The Weather Channel group.

The caveats mentioned above are all true which is to be expected. Heck you can place sensors all around your own yard and get differing temps so of course there's leeway regardless. We don't have a weather system yet for ourselves so instead of relying on our local news channels' weather for expected temps (they always seem to be off a few or more degrees for my area especially during the hot summer weather), I do like to check WUnderground. I have found that The Weather Channel has always been off, sometimes by alot for us. Sorry to hear that they are any which way involved with WUnderground. With WUnderground we at least have a station a few blocks away, and it seems to be the best/closest choice for us to use for current and past info. Hubby likes to use another online service and we were comparing them for weekly weather predictions of rain this winter. WUnderground I think did better than his.

I'm kicking myself for not at least buying a high/low thermometer or two for use this past week. Would have used it as a guage against the WUnderground station near me. That would have been a smart thing to do until we get our own setup. By the time I thought of it last night it was too late to make it to a hardware store before it closed. Oh well. We are going to be planting our beds this spring and it would have been useful info to have and start tracking.

During rainy and stormy weather I have found WUnderground's local radar to be very accurate. Like using it better than launching a local TV station's radar. I see the front approaching our home in near real-time and can guage the level of rainfall coming or see lightning strikes coming in over the ranges. When we had tornado activity (not common but happens) I could see where the front was and how close the really bad weather was to us.

Edited by WestCoastGal

Zone 9b (formerly listed as Zone 9a); Sunset 14

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I realize that Weather Underground stations are just home/hobby people feeding data. The station near me is a high end Davis weatherstation...hard to imagine someone spending $500+ on weatherstation and not reading the directions how/where to put it. So I'm sure it's hit and miss, but the stations do list what the equipment is at least. The one near my house is spot on with reading I take at the bottom of my hill (coldest spot). When my weatherstation died, I didn't even bother replacing it because the nearby station tells me what's going on. You just have to look at the available nearby stations and figure out which one(s) are good. But from a valid station, I bet their forecasts are much more accurate for particular microclimates than the relatively generic NWS forecast (they are for me at least...NWS can be 10F off on lows at my house in some weather patterns).

My old place was consistently 3F lower than Lindbergh field...an incredible microclimate as Matt said, Lindbergh field readings are totally unrealistic for anyone in a non concrete jungle part of San Diego. There was only one night I did not hold at 3F below Lindbergh. It was the coldest night in 2007 when Lindbergh hit 34 and I was 35. Never seen temps of 32 or below at that house, including 2007. But the neighbors making meth and regular walkby's by the local drug dealers got a bit old.

I'm convinced that short of sub-freezing temps, the vast majority of palms find anything below 50F to be enough to shut down for the winter. 35F or 45F doesn't make much difference. Once below freezing, it's a different story.

Matt

San Diego

0.6 Acres of a south facing, gently sloped dirt pile, soon to be impenetrable jungle

East of Mount Soledad, in the biggest cold sink in San Diego County.

Zone 10a (I hope), Sunset 24

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Burrrrrr!!!! I hope you guys pull through all this extreame cold weather. It sounds to be pretty wide spread.

We are having probably the warmest winter on record, for December and January especially. Our highs have been between 80-82 for weeks now. BUT....we had our devestating cold a couple of years ago. And it was terrible.

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Wunderground is very useful for the local weather stations with a few caveats. Some of the stations that are amateur/home setups are improperly sited, either too close to structures or concrete, at the wrong height, without proper sun/wind/radiative loss enclosure, or with low precision electronics. If you look at the graphs for various stations some go offline, showing a flatline, and report the same temp from say midnight to 8am when it is turned back on. Some graphs seem to move up and down in temp through the night which could be mixing winds picking up but, might also be a furnace or other heat generating equipment turning on and off. Have to exclude those reports. The government or science affiliated stations such as airports, fire stations, CDF field offices, MADIS network, or the RAWS network are usually more accurate. But there are well sited hobbyist stations you just have to research those in a given area and remember which ones seem to give sensible data. The Weather Channel has purchased Wunderground.com and announced they will not tamper with it's operations but I've already noticed changes. The forecasting might be deteriorating at Wunderground since the purchase, as they sometimes alter predictions a few times a day. Any outlook beyond 3 days tends to be less reliable. Wunderground's station network and wundermap are still better than Weather.com and at least in the past they were the only site to predict the inversion days correctly when the Valley is cold and foggy while the foothills are sunny and "warm" above the soup. Accuweather.com is a joke, as no one there understands elevation, microclimates, inversions, or the effects of California's ocean influence very well. They often give the forecast for Blue Canyon Airport (4700' el./ USDA 7b) or Marysville (100' el./USDA 9b) for Rough and Ready (1800' el/USDA 9a) with no rhyme or reason. Weather.com is hardly any better. I've found weather.gov/NOAA's site has really improved in the last few years and now has the most accurate forecasts for micro-climates. Weatherbase.com has an additional network of fairly accurate weather stations.

Overall Wunderground is still the best.

Here are a few links on weather station networks: Citizen Weather Observer Program (CWOP), MADIS meteorlogical network, Mesonet Wiki, U.S. Hydrometeorlogical Networks Map.

Funny, in my area Wunderground is by far the least accurate as far as temperature predictions. For instance, during this week's cold spell Wunderground was off from 6 to 11 degrees in four days. They predicted a low of 25F the other night for my zip code and the actual was 36F. My area hasn't seen 25F since 1990. They predicted four night's lows from 25 to 28 and it never went below freezing. Intellicast nailed the temperatures and Accuweather and Weather.com were the next closest. All in all, this cold snap was nowhere near as bad as the one in 2007 where my lowest reading was 26.5F.

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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Jim,

I'm curious, do the stations near you on Weather Underground give similar temps to your place? I haven't been looking at their forecast temps for long, so maybe they've just gotten lucky during this cold snap. But maybe it just depends on whether a station near you gives temps that reflect your property.

Matt

San Diego

0.6 Acres of a south facing, gently sloped dirt pile, soon to be impenetrable jungle

East of Mount Soledad, in the biggest cold sink in San Diego County.

Zone 10a (I hope), Sunset 24

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Jim,

I'm curious, do the stations near you on Weather Underground give similar temps to your place? I haven't been looking at their forecast temps for long, so maybe they've just gotten lucky during this cold snap. But maybe it just depends on whether a station near you gives temps that reflect your property.

Matt

Matt, there are quite a few reporting stations in my area and only one is way off all the time (about 10 degrees lower than all the other reporting stations). I wrote to Wunderground a year ago asking them how they arrive at their temperature predictions because they were way off then too and never got a response. Their predictions are way off for cities adjacent to Los Altos also as well as almost all South Bay cities and towns. Sometimes I think the best places to check weather are the local news station websites since their meteorologists are "tuned in" to the particular weather patterns and microclimate activities of a given area and they live in the area as well.

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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Jim, have you looked at the weather station KCALOSAL1, labeled Los Altos Hills on the WUnderground map? It's a WLS-8000 industrial weather station (runs several thousand dollars and probably set up properly). For yesterday, 1/14, they were reporting the low as 36 recorded at 4:55 & 5:00 am that morning.

Zone 9b (formerly listed as Zone 9a); Sunset 14

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what was more of interest was to view weatherundergrounds "full map"

that gave me a view of all of southern cal and the terrain .

any area the was just west of large mountains and dropping into a flat area got hammered.

valley center / ecsondido/santee/ oceanside/bonsall/ camp pendelton/ san marcos/ poway/el cajon/ granite hills/brown field/scripps poway....................... all got frickin hammered.

Edited by trioderob
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what was more of interest was to view weatherundergrounds "full map"

that gave me a view of all of southern cal and the terrain .

any area the was just west of large mountains and dropping into a flat area got hammered.

valley center / ecsondido/santee/ oceanside/bonsall/ camp pendelton/ san marcos/ poway/el cajon/ granite hills/brown field/scripps poway....................... all got frickin hammered.

the worst hammering in san marcos took place in the twin oaks valley area (as per usual)...i would bet that i never saw below 35°F the entire time....

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