Sabals....whats the biggest one?

[Stevetoad]

im clearing out some hedges on my side yard and would like to put a HUGE sabal there. i already have a sabal domingensis in the ground and dont want 2 of the same palm. i have a riverside and bermudana in pots. what is the biggest one i can get?

[edbrown_III]

Perhaps S. maritima

Best regards

Ed

[JLeVert]

Sabal causiarum is a monster with a fat trunk like poured concrete.

[sonoranfans]

im clearing out some hedges on my side yard and would like to put a HUGE sabal there. i already have a sabal domingensis in the ground and dont want 2 of the same palm. i have a riverside and bermudana in pots. what is the biggest one i can get?

You already have domingensis go for the causarium. Its a bit slower, but worth the wait.

[Eric in Orlando]

Sabal yapa is a big one. But there seems to be 2 forms of this; the large form and a slender form.

Sabal uresana also is a large one and has 2 forms; silver or green.

[PalmatierMeg]

My first thought was also causiarum. There's one in the downtown Ft. Myers palm park that must have a trunk over 3' in diameter. It's so tall I can't get the whole palm in one photo.

[paulgila]

biggest or not,you GOTTA have an s.mauritiiformis.

[Stevetoad]

biggest or not,you GOTTA have an s.mauritiiformis.

Got one

[David Clulow]

I find S. maritima very fast. I have not lost a single one in our prolonged dry season:

[MattyB]

In my opinion, if you already have one of these three: maritima, dominguensis, causiarum, then you're set. I can't tell them apart and their sizes are comparable. If you really want another and want something different than you have, you should probably wait until you can positively id yours first because they seem to be sold interchangeably.

[paulgila]

biggest or not,you GOTTA have an s.mauritiiformis.

Got one

excellent (mr.burns voice).

[Mandrew968]

In my opinion, if you already have one of these three: maritima, dominguensis, causiarum, then you're set. I can't tell them apart and their sizes are comparable. If you really want another and want something different than you have, you should probably wait until you can positively id yours first because they seem to be sold interchangeably.

Maritima is big but not as big as the other two. Causiarum has ligules and dominguensis does not. Both are similar in size but I might give the edge to causiarum. The crown on dominguensis might be a bit larger... Yapa is not a big palm by any means and I saw a Sabal uresana in St. Pete that was absolutely MONSTEROUS! Combined with the silver it had, I went out and got one, that week!

Biggest to smallest: causiarum, dominguensis, uresana, maritima, mexicana/bermudana...

[Eric in Orlando]

There is a "big" form of S. yapa. Most I see are the smaller form, similar to S. mauritiiformis. We have a big form S. yapa that is similar in size to a Bismarckia.

[Stevetoad]

Eric. that thing is AWESOME!!!

[Eric in Orlando]

It resembles a Sabal crossed with a Corypha

[Stevetoad]

how much shade is it in?

[Eric in Orlando]

In winter it gets mostly bright shade, tree canopy is to the south of it. In summer it gets morning sun, midday shade then afternoon sun.

[PalmatierMeg]

Wow, that palm looks nothing like the S. yapa I saw on Cozumel in 2010. How old is it?

[Brian Bruning]

This a bit off topic. Does anyone know what the parents to S. "riverside" are?

[iamjv]

You might try sabal guatemalensis.... somewhat hard to come by but they make a gorgeous palm. The ones pictured below are outside of a condo in Houston.

[Stevetoad]

You might try sabal guatemalensis.... somewhat hard to come by but they make a gorgeous palm. The ones pictured below are outside of a condo in Houston.

Those are really nice. I never heard of those before. I ended up planting sabal uresana. But I'm still enjoying all these awesome sabal giant photos. Keep them coming.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Guilt-free bump...

I have a question on sabals. I needed something more after 15 years of pinnate palms, so I decided to add giant palmate fronds in the landscape. I put 9 of them in the ground and I've got three more in pots.

According to the Guide to Southern California Palms, Sabal riverside is indicated as a shade to sun grower, as having some blue, and as being one of the fastest growers. Well, I put mine in partial shade, and it's essentially stalled. All my other sabals are putting on healthy growth as observed via growth lines. But not this one, and it's supposed to be the biggest leafed one after causiarum and the fastest, and the one that can start in some shade.

Going by Geoff Stein's guidebook, here's the leaf sizes and descriptions for the various sabals. I put them in order of biggest leaf size to smallest leaf size:

s. causiarum: 9'-13' green, moderate

s. 'Riverside', 11', blue-green, fastest growing sabal in CA, gradual sun

s. dominguensis: 10' slightly bluish-green, moderate

s. maritima: 10' green, slow

s. 'blackburnia': 9' deep bluish-green, moderate

s. bermudana: 6'-8' slightly glaucus, slow

s. mexicana, 8', light green, moderate

s. uresana, 8' pale bluish-green but very blue as seedling, slow

s. pumos, 7', slow

s, mauritiiformus, 6', green, moderate, gradual sun

When i look at this picture, Geoff Stein's guide is consistent:

But when I look at this one from a nursery in Southern California, I say, that looks like a palmetto, not s. riverside:

From http://www.ellisfarms.com/sabal-riverside

So what the heck is going on here? Mis-identified?

[sonoranfans]

How do you identify riverside? Legend has it that the seed comes from a single palm in riverside california. I think identification of sabals is not easy anyway, but I dont even know if taxonimists have a way to identify riverside or if they even recognize it as a separate species. I have a feeling that some of these sabals are hybrids anyway. Riverside, and blackburniana could very well be hybrids. If some are hybrids, I expect to see lots of genetic variation as many hybrids exhibit. The best way to get a big sabal is to either buy it as a juvenile where it is already showing its "big" genetics, or get seeds from a reputable source. I have had riverside, bermudana, blackburniana, causiarum, domingensis, mauritiformis, uresana. Of these I noticed that riverside did have some blue as did causiarum, less so for domingensis and bermudana. Could riverside be a domingensis x uresana hybrid? The fastest I have grown at the non trunking stage has been domingensis followed by riverside, uresana, and then blackburniana. Most sabals are known to grow faster in florida than california, though Im not sure about the hot inland cali growth rates. Speed of growth of sabals depends on heat, but some like riverside may not need as much heat to grow well. If I were in santa cruz I wouldnt put a sabal in shade and expect it to grow fast.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

How do you identify riverside? Legend has it that the seed comes from a single palm in riverside california. I think identification of sabals is not easy anyway, but I dont even know if taxonimists have a way to identify riverside or if they even recognize it as a separate species. I have a feeling that some of these sabals are hybrids anyway. Riverside, and blackburniana could very well be hybrids. If some are hybrids, I expect to see lots of genetic variation as many hybrids exhibit. The best way to get a big sabal is to either buy it as a juvenile where it is already showing its "big" genetics, or get seeds from a reputable source. I have had riverside, bermudana, blackburniana, causiarum, domingensis, mauritiformis, uresana. Of these I noticed that riverside did have some blue as did causiarum, less so for domingensis and bermudana. Could riverside be a domingensis x uresana hybrid? The fastest I have grown at the non trunking stage has been domingensis followed by riverside, uresana, and then blackburniana. Most sabals are known to grow faster in florida than california, though Im not sure about the hot inland cali growth rates. Speed of growth of sabals depends on heat, but some like riverside may not need as much heat to grow well. If I were in santa cruz I wouldnt put a sabal in shade and expect it to grow fast.

I am aware of all the stories around sabals and heat, but speed is a relative thing. Someone used to Florida palm growth rates would be sorely disappointed in the speed of palms in California. Someone used to palm growth rates in Southern California would be sorely disappointed in palm growth rates in Central California. It's all a function of heat unit accumulation, and so we all just adjust our expectations. I am happy with slow growing palms, all my palms are super slow. But since I enjoy the foliage so much more when they're juvenile, the lack of heat is rather convenient.

Going back to the sabals, I am getting what I consider good growth rates on all of my sabals except Riverside. It may very well be the case that I can't do sabals in the shade. Oh well, I guess I need to move this thing.

It could also be bad genetics, I wouldn't rule that out, since 'Riverside' is indeed a hybrid.

[sonoranfans]

Axel,

Another aspect of the speed of sabals is that many of them seem to do better once they trunk, and most seem to need to establish the subterranean trunk before they come up to speed. In my experience domingensis seems to be less dependent in this way. Causiarum seemed to take longer and riverside and uresana are in between. My sabals in florida are all pre trunking juveniles...

[buffy]

You might try sabal guatemalensis.... somewhat hard to come by but they make a gorgeous palm. The ones pictured below are outside of a condo in Houston.

I have a few of these seedling I planted out. They strike me as a greener more tropical looking form of Sabal mexicana. I can't wait for all this material to get some size. JV: How's your newer garden going. If I recall, you moved a few years back.