Which was worse : 1990 or 2007

[happ]

Here's the data for downtown Los Angeles :

NWS-LA

SATURDAY 57/39

SUNDAY 56/36 record

MONDAY 61/36

TUESDAY 65/37

WEDNESDAY 59/44

TODAY 70/38

1990 [My station]

55/44

51/38

52/30

53/30

65/37

Anyone know what downtown/LAX reported?

[tropicalb]

happ...

your weather this last week was balmy compared to what went on down here in San Diego County.

[happ]

tropicalb

You're right about San Diego

NWS-SAN DIEGO

SATURDAY 57/39

SUNDAY 54/36

MONDAY 57/35

TUESDAY 58/37

WEDNESDAY 57/38

TODAY 60/41

And at my foothill location

SATURDAY 58/39

SUNDAY 56/37

MONDAY 61/41

TUESDAY 68/45

WEDNESDAY 60/42

TODAY 70/44

[spockvr6]

Once again.....shows how the "official" temps sometimes are wholly unindicative of what many folks actually experience.

[epicure3]

(spockvr6 @ Jan. 18 2007,22:17)

QUOTE

Once again.....shows how the "official" temps sometimes are wholly unindicative of what many folks actually experience.

When I left downtown La Jolla at 11PM on Saturdat night, it was 45F. By the time I got to my house no more than 15 minutes later, it was 31F. Since my low was 29F, I bet La Jolla dropped no more than 43 any of these nights.

[Matt in SD]

A couple years ago I did find somplace on the web that had the daily temperatures for past years (back 20-30 years or so) for all the SoCal NWS stations.  I can't find it again but I'll keep looking.   I spent quite a bit of time trying to assess my likelihood of a freeze based on my relative temps compared to the NWS stations.  I highly recommend others doing this as you can avoid having a total shock when something like this happens.

As I remember, the absolute low during this event at Lindbergh Field (San Diego) was 34.  I just checked the records for Lindbergh through for December and there are two record lows recorded from 1990 on the 23rd and 26th of 36F and 37F respectively.  The lowest records in the surrounding days are 34.  So at Lindbergh field I think this event is very similar in intensity to 1990.  This time the aboslute low was 35, and there have been nights at 37, 38 and 39.  So maybe it's one degree warmer, but I think this is longer.

For LAX, there are two records form 1990 on the 22nd and 23rd of 35F on both days.  There is one record near those dates of 32, and the others in the date range are all above 34F.  So the lowest it could have gotten at LAX in 1990 was 32.  So it seems like at LAX, the 1990 freeze is also very similar to the current ones with an absolute low of 36 and several days of mid 30s.

What's interesting based on Happ's observations is that it seems he was significantly colder than LAX in 1990, but quite a bit warmer than LAX in this freeze.  I think this illustrates that these events are just "different".  It's pretty hard to tell which was worse, but it looks like at the official stations they were very similar in terms of absolute low temps.  

Matt

[elHoagie]

Happ,

Here's the data for the LA civic center (LA downtown) for December 1990.

Dec 20 - 55/43

Dec 21 - 50/40

Dec 22 - 52/33

Dec 23 - 55/34

Dec 24 - 65/35

Dec 25 - 68/42

For comparison, here's the data for LAX

Dec 20 - 55/45

Dec 21 - 51/38

Dec 22 - 51/35

Dec 23 - 56/35

Dec 24 - 63/38

Dec 25 - 66/42

and San Diego Lindbergh Field

Dec 20 - 55/48

Dec 21 - 53/46

Dec 22 - 52/39

Dec 23 - 55/36

Dec 24 - 62/40

Dec 25 - 63/37

[Matt in SD]

I guess I remembered the San Diego data wrong.  So based on those numbers it looks like this one might have been worse than 1990 in coastal SD, but slightly more mild in LA.

Matt

[PalmGuyWC]

Hey guys,

I've been listening to your conversations and nothing official here or scientific, but it seems to me you got hamered much harder this time than in 1990.  In 1990 we had sub-normal temps for almost two weeks and the lowest I got was 14F with many other nights in the teens. After the freeze, the temps here rose pretty fast.  This current "event" is lasting quite a long time.  Ice in my pool this morning for the 3rd day and the temps are moderating.

I remember a day after the 1990 freeze I stuck a shovel down in my vegitable garden and there were ice crystals 6 inches down.  The top had thawed but still frozen under the ground.  This time my low was 23F, quite a difference from 14F.  Many of my palms were fried in 1990, but they all recovered...and this time I don't see that much damage, yet.

With this great web site and instant communication and pictures, this will probably the best recorded freeze in history.  I just hope everything can be compiled in a format that is easy to understand.

Dick

[happ]

Thanks for providing the historic data, Jack.  Forgotten the exact numbers.  These events take on a "legendary" status all their own.  33F/0.5C in LA/1990 was far colder than this freeze & the only time I recorded freezing temps since joining AMS in 1980.  

Interesting observation, in retrospect, is that I wasn't actually in USDA 11 while renting a little house half-way up the canyon surrounded by several acres of citrus/sapote. Returning to the hilltop where 30's are occasional though not every year.

Memories of 1990 are quite vivid.  The abrupt cold was quite intense & required 24-hour heating of the house.  It was quickly followed by a Pacific storm that moistened the atmosphere. [2007 remains bone dry & susceptible to frost & fire in the thin cold air.  Back to 1990 - common street ficus were all burned on one side.  Bananas disappeared and ice formed on swimming pools    Was an incredible sight   Recall Descanso losing massive amounts of azalea & Huntington suffering considerably. Will be at the old Huntington hotel/now Ritz Carlton Sunday & will check out decades old palms.

The wind prevailed and essentially spared Los Angeles this freeze.  Drive by fishtail/foxtail/king palms downtown & haven't noticed any damage yet.    

Dick

Any damage in San Jose/Berkeley/Oakland?

There were some unusual components to this freeze that engulfed NorCal [except San Francisco] & then jumped into extreme southern Cal [except San Diego bay].  Estimates of 25% grove damage in San Bernardino/Riverside counties unlike 75% in Central valley  

Very pleasant today w/ 70's right down to the beach  :cool: