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Orchid Seeds Germinated On My Tree


epiphyte

Orchid Seeds On Your Tree?  

29 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you want orchid seeds germinating on your tree?

    • Not in the least bit!
      0
    • Depends on the kind of orchid
      3
    • Yes for sure!
      26


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This last Friday while inspecting my tree I noticed a few tiny round green blobs near the roots of the Dendrobium speciosum v. capricornicum 'Black Mountain Gold' that I had picked up from my friend in Santa Barbara back in 09. Upon closer inspection I realized that the green blobs were actually orchid protocorms. It was super surreal seeing them "magically" attached to the completely dry bark on the sunny side of the tree.

Here's one photo...

6104404673_9803b2ef6a_z.jpg

Symbiotic Orchid Germination 1a 008 by epiphyte78, on Flickr

Here's the set...Symbiotic Orchid Germination...where I uploaded several other context photos. To make it easier to see the details I only marginally reduced the quality/size of the photos. After you click on a photo...you can see the full size pictures by right clicking on the photos in flickr and selecting the size you wish to see.

Earlier in the year, before I replied to this thread on orchid mycorhizzae (on an orchid forum), I had sown some orchid seeds onto my Cedar Tree...so the seedlings are probably not volunteers.

Looking around the speciosum some more I counted around a couple dozen protocorms in close proximity to the roots of the speciosum. Some were just barely visible to the eye while the largest were the size of a BB and just starting to develop their first leaf.

Wondering if there were other protocorms on the tree...this last weekend I climbed up the tree and managed to find a few more protocorms. One protocorm was growing close to an Epidendrum parkinsonianum that I purchased from a lady in Ojai. Another one was growing next to a Dockrillia teretifolium that I had purchased from the SBOE. There were also around half a dozen growing near a Vanda tricolor v suavis that I purchased from a fellow in Ventura. I purchased all three orchids back in 08.

Unfortunately, I have no idea what orchid(s) the seedlings are. Lately I've been adding plants/seeds to the tree in batches/bundles. If I remember correctly I think I gathered up a bunch of spore laden fern fronds and lightly blended them up in water. I poured the mix into a large plastic juice bottle and scraped in orchid seeds from 3 or 4 different pods around the garden. Then I probably added a few Tillandsia seeds and poured the mix at various heights onto my tree...shaking the bottle vigorously between pours.

I'm pretty sure that one of the seed pods was from my Cattleya loddigesii. But what I do know for certain is that none of the seeds were from the same species as the four orchids that supplied the necessary fungus. This seems to provide a little evidence regarding how selective/general orchids are in terms of their symbiotic relationships.

Just recently, on one of the other forums I'm on, somebody shared this interesting study on how terrestrial plants will switch fungal partners if they feel that their partner is not sufficiently contributing to the relationship. In other words..."mooching". Does the same "fungus free-market" occur with orchids and fungus living on a tree in nature?

For more information on symbiotic fungus I turned to the wikipedia article on Mycorrhiza...

This mutualistic association provides the fungus with relatively constant and direct access to carbohydrates, such as glucose and sucrose supplied by the plant. The carbohydrates are translocated from their source (usually leaves) to root tissue and on to fungal partners. In return, the plant gains the benefits of the mycelium's higher absorptive capacity for water and mineral nutrients (due to comparatively large surface area of mycelium:root ratio), thus improving the plant's mineral absorption capabilities.

In that thread on orchid mycorrhizae, another member mentioned that the majority of epiphytic orchids associate with saprobic fungi rather than mycorrhizae. Not sure if that changes the relationship dynamic between the orchid and its fungal partner.

We do know that orchids raised from flask can grow without a fungal partner...but would it be worth it to try and find these lonely orchids a fungal partner? Given that orchid seeds are completely dependent on fungus to germinate in nature lends credence to the value of the relationship.

It's interesting that on my tree the orchid seeds germinated in such close proximity to the roots. As far as I can tell...none of the seedlings germinated further than 1/2" away from an orchid root...but only two seedlings germinated directly on a root. I know I didn't pour the orchid seeds exactly around those orchids so the seeds should have ended up in other areas as well. It seems that even though the four orchids have been on the tree for at least a couple years...the fungus hasn't managed to stray very far from their orchid roots.

In that thread on orchid mycorrhizae I theorized that the fungus uses the orchid roots as a vehicle for colonizing the tree. The more a fungus colonizes a tree the more spore it can produce...which greatly increases the chances that spore will land on adjacent trees. Which in turn increases the chances that seeds from that orchid will germinate on adjacent trees.

One thing about my Cedar tree though is that the bark is very hard. Some of the native oaks near the coast which are loaded with non-vascular epiphytes have very spongy soft bark. It seems reasonable that soft, absorbent bark would make it easier for orchid fungus to colonize a tree without having to rely completely on orchid roots.

In terms of watering...for the past couple months I've tried to turn the drip system on every night for around 20-30 minutes. Most of the orchids on the tree don't need to be watered every day and would be fine with being watered 2-3x a week...but they don't mind being watered nightly during summer. I've been watering more frequently than really necessary to help a few moisture lovers (ie epiphytic impatiens, blueberries, rhododendrons, etc.) get a chance to establish.

I'm certainly not the first person to try sowing orchid seeds on trees...but it's surprising that I've only heard two separate instances of people in Hawaii successfully trying this method of propagation. I've never heard of anybody in Florida or the tropics attempting to do this.

Of course, back in the day before asymbiotic germination techniques, people would sprinkle orchid seeds in the pot where the mother orchid was growing. In those days though most of the orchids were wild collected and definitely had the necessary fungus in their roots. These days I wonder what percentage of the orchids in a typical collection have fungus in their roots.

In conclusion...grow orchids on trees and boycott the AOS!

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That's wild! :drool: I don't mind them growing everywhere (they certainly are interesting and gorgeous) but on their own, without much intervention but placing them on the trees.

Patricia

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Thanks for taking the time to write out all of that information epiphyte! I find these plant/fungal relationships to be very interesting.

:) Jonathan

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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Hmmm.... this makes me realize I don't know much about orchids!! I would love for them to pop up everywhere but all our orchids never get pods (except one). What does it take to get a seed pod? We have nun orchids that always get seed pods and they are popping up everywhere.

********Angela**********

Kailua_Kona.gif

Kailua_Kona.gif

Check out Palmpedia

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That is crazy considering that you have to normally have a lab germinate your seeds. That's the first I have heard of in Cali and my father used to grow, sell and make hybrid orchids. Even he said that's incredible in Cali. Good work!!! That's very exciting.

"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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In the right climate this will happen easily and all the time :winkie:

post-354-072230100 1315115025_thumb.jpg

  • Upvote 2

Michael in palm paradise,

Tully, wet tropics in Australia, over 4 meters of rain every year.

Home of the Golden Gumboot, its over 8m high , our record annual rainfall.

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Thanks for this most informative thread !

My friend Garrin has volunteer Vanda orchids on his Metrosideros polymorpha trees on Hawaii island, south of Hilo.

  • Upvote 1

San Francisco, California

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putu enjula, to get a seed pod you have to pollinate the flowers! Here's a youtube video showing how to "self" a moth orchid. Quite a few orchids will develop seed pods from being selfed but others require cross-pollination.

What's kind of unique about the orchid family is their ability to cross with species in closely related genera. This is why there are so many intergeneric hybrids available. For example...you can mix and match Laelias, Cattleyas and Brassavolas. You can also mix and match Oncidiums, Brassias and Odontoglossum. But you can't cross orchids in the Oncidiinae with orchids in the Laeliinae.

If you get a chance I highly recommend contacting your local orchid society...Kona Orchid Society. I can't vouch for them but in general most orchid societies have at least a few people that are happy to share their experiences and knowledge with you.

Your local orchid nursery(s) might also be willing to teach you how to pollinate orchid flowers.

You can also try contacting my friend who has a friend in Hawaii who grows orchids by sowing the seeds on his Plumeria trees.

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aussiearoids! Thanks for sharing that photo. Although, photos like that are like Lays potato chips...you can't look at just one! Did you sow the seeds yourself or did they volunteer there?

Look at all your non-vascular epiphytes! All that moss and lichen and slime. That's the best stuff on earth. I'd really love to try growing some tropical non-vascular epiphytes on my tree.

Oh no, once I start with my Australian wish list it's hard to stop. Then there's Myrmecodia beccarii and Dischidia nummularia..because they grow alongside Dendrobium canaliculatum which thrives for me outdoors here in Southern California. Then there are the trailing epiphytic ferns like Pyrrosia rupestris and Pyrrosia longifolia because I'm always on the lookout for smaller trailing ferns that could possibly beat Microgramma vacciniifolia on a tree here in Southern California. Then I'd be really interested in seeing how the Drynaria in the beginning of this

as well as Hoya australis ssp. rupicola would do epiphytically here in SoCal.

"In the right climate this will happen easily and all the time :winkie:" With a great climate comes great responsibility to propagate great plants??? :winkie:

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Darold, thanks for sharing that info! That makes a total of 3 references of orchids successfully germinating on trees in Hawaii. Perhaps you could forward your friend's contact info to putu. He/she might be able to offer putu a few tips on getting orchids to germinate on trees in Hawaii.

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Stevetoad, you and your father are more than welcome to come over for a tour. I don't live very far from the Huntington so you could kill two squirrels with one stone.

Next time I'm up that way Ill take you up on your offer. Im still amazed that you had seeds germinate. Are you running misters? I need to copy whatever your doing. I must get over 100 pods a year off my epidendrums but never have I had any little guys pop up, just kekis. Whatever your doing keep it up!

"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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putu enjula, to get a seed pod you have to pollinate the flowers! Here's a youtube video showing how to "self" a moth orchid. Quite a few orchids will develop seed pods from being selfed but others require cross-pollination.

What's kind of unique about the orchid family is their ability to cross with species in closely related genera. This is why there are so many intergeneric hybrids available. For example...you can mix and match Laelias, Cattleyas and Brassavolas. You can also mix and match Oncidiums, Brassias and Odontoglossum. But you can't cross orchids in the Oncidiinae with orchids in the Laeliinae.

If you get a chance I highly recommend contacting your local orchid society...Kona Orchid Society. I can't vouch for them but in general most orchid societies have at least a few people that are happy to share their experiences and knowledge with you.

Your local orchid nursery(s) might also be willing to teach you how to pollinate orchid flowers.

You can also try contacting my friend who has a friend in Hawaii who grows orchids by sowing the seeds on his Plumeria trees.

Thanks for all the info!!! After I posted that response, I googled it and I found an informative page on the "North Jersey Orchid Society" website of all places. The article had such a cute Jersey-style title : "So You Want to Make Babies...Orchid Babies That Is" http://www.njorchids.org/articles/pollination/pollination.htm Of course I started pollinating every orchid that had flowers on it! I never realized it was so easy to do.

********Angela**********

Kailua_Kona.gif

Kailua_Kona.gif

Check out Palmpedia

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Stevetoad, no misters. The tree has mostly vertical branches so I just use drip emitters. Even if the tree had horizontal branches I'd use micro-sprinklers rather than misters. My goal when I water is to drench my epiphytes. A while back I ran across this favorite passage of mine in an old American Orchid Society magazine...

Orchids in this region have a turbulent and exiciting life in the rainy season, the late afternoon the mountains begin to grow, the clouds cover the sky, and lightening starts its pyrotechnics. The zephyrs that have been waiting about for the past half-hour become boisterous, and rain begins to drop. And now in a few minutes an inferno breaks loose, the wind lashes the trees, clouds burst and fall, and the thunder becomes fortissimo. It's a great spectacle from a good shelter. Its worst violence does not last long, and in the morning the sun shines from a clear hot sky and tries to burn things up. One would expect to find trees uprooted and the orchids torn from their supports, but such is rarely the case. The plants have had a grand fling, no more. - Howell D. Sawyer, Jungle Jaunts III - Central Guerrero

That's exactly what I try and emulate when I water. Well...minus the thunder, lightening and wind. During summer I drench my epiphytes at night so the lower evaporation rate allows them as much time as they'd like to fully hydrate. They'll need to be fully hydrated because they'll be completely bone dry during the day. Well...except for the non-CAM epiphytes that I've attached on top of decent pads of moss.

Regarding your 100s of Epidendrum pods. When I was in high school my biology teacher tied most concepts to increasing (or decreasing) the surface area. An orchid (with the necessary fungus in its roots) on a tree will have much more rooted surface area available than if the same orchid were in a pot.

It would be great if we could to select for drought tolerance. Here in Southern California dryness, rather than temperature, is a much greater limiting factor to growing plants epiphytically. So if each of your 100 pods have 1 million seeds each then that's a 100 million seeds to try and select from.

The common reed-stem Epidendrum is certainly not the most epiphytic of orchids but if you sprinkled 100 million seeds on a tree covered with orchid roots then it would be interesting to see if any managed to survive on the tree.

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Putu, I saw that same result as well but thought..."eh, Jersey Shore...how good could it be" so I didn't click on it. It's actually better than the video. heh.

It shouldn't take long to see if your pollination efforts were successful. You'll notice that a flower that you pollinated will stay on the flower spike longer than unpollinated flowers. The ovary will stay green and then start to swell.

Some orchid pods can take a ridiculous amount of time to ripen...like more than a year...while others can ripen in as little as 3 months. What I tend to do is wait until the seed pod just barely starts to split. Then I'll harvest it and tie a coffee filter around it using twisties until I'm ready to sow the seeds.

Not sure what the best method is to sow the seeds on trees. On one of the orchid forums a member remarked that a friend had success using a super soaker. In any case, manually sowing the seeds on trees will certainly yield higher rates of germination compared to just letting the seeds fly to adjacent trees on their own.

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i should try scattering some seeds all over my tree mounted orchids and see what happens. i always figured that they would never gem so out of sight out of mind. im running a drip system and micro sprayers. my trees look like an octopus from behind. i have a few epidendrums tree mounted that are doing great a few in spike and one blooming right now but the ones in the ground are much more healthy and bloom most of the year. i think im going to start pollinating some of my cats,dens and milts just to see what happens. id freak if any of mine germinated. im green with envy righ now :mrlooney:

"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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  • 2 weeks later...

Congratulations for the germinated orchidsdrool.gifCould you maybe post a picture of your dripper setup? I am about to set up irrigation for epiphyte growing on a leaning olive tree trunk and would really love to see an example of a successful system!smilie.gif

Thank you very much in advance!smilie.gif

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

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A mate of mine who 'de-nuts' the many Coconuts growing around the resorts often finds a Cymbidium growing in the fibres of old fronds .

ALSO NOTICED MANY many enormous canes of Den smilliae hanging down from big basket ferns in a large tree in town . Mine are still flowering , they last a while .

Michael in palm paradise,

Tully, wet tropics in Australia, over 4 meters of rain every year.

Home of the Golden Gumboot, its over 8m high , our record annual rainfall.

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Thank you very much for your reply and photos epiphyte!smilie.gif

I think in my case it will need too many drippers to soak the trunk completely as the trunk i am working with is more like a horizontal branch. I think i will go with micro-sprinklers from a wall near the tree and maybe some drippers as well at the base of certain epiphytessmilie.gif

As for my epiphytes,they are doing very well but are not yet growing epiphytically unfortunately as i didnt have the time to install their irrigation. I will try to mount my first ones this weekend if i manage to set the irrigation right! The first ones will be 2 Zamia pseudoparasitica and a Stanhopea tigrina!drool.gifI am still debating wether i should try my Phalaenopsis gigantea outside,especially since you give it close to no survival chancessad.gif I may do it though since i can replace it relatively easily...

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

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Kostas, yeah, the more horizontal a branch is, the less effective drippers are for coverage. You're going to mount two Zamia pseudoparasiticas??? First, how in the world did you end up with two?? I have yet to run across any for sale here in Southern California and have only seen one in person. Second, my advice would be to try one in the tree to see how it does before adding the second one. Stanhopea tigrina is a an excellent choice. They appreciate a decent amount of water and shade though. I have Stanhopea jenischiana in my tree and it's doing really great.

Heh, I gave Phalaenopsis gigantea a 1% chance of surviving outside in your area. It would be really neat to discover that it was exceptional though. Personally, like I mentioned, I would just trade it for another orchid that I was at least fairly certain that it could grow outside in my area.

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Thank you very much for your reply epiphyte!smilie.gif

Yeap,and i am fully convinced they are gonna do great as i cold tested one last winter at -1C to -2,5C(at Melissia,not in Pyrgos where i will be mounting them) and aside from some burn and a little setback,it did ok!smilie.gif And,i actually have more like 6 Zamia pseudoparasitica than just 2drool.gifAll seedlings from RPS seeds. The reason i am thinking of mounting both at the same time is because i want to place their existing roots under the Stanhopea tigrina,to have an anchor point till they grow more roots and adjust to the mounted way of life! Maybe i will do just one though and use another plant for the other.

The trunk of my Olea europea is shaded and in a moist area of my garden. I hope S. tigrina likes it,coupled with daily showers! I hope it flowers for the first time next year!

I really like Phalaenopsis gigantea due to the large size it gets and its very wide leafs and would even keep it inside or in a terrarium if i need to. But i surely would prefer it mounted on a tree outside with no care from my part other than auto irrigation and the occasional fertilizer! I will probably try it at some point,either the one i am currently growing or i will get a smaller one just for testing. I would like to try a wide leaf Dendrobium with drooping habit like D. antennatum next but i have been unable to find it unfortunately.

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

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  • 1 year later...
Most of the seedlings died off...probably eaten by somebody. But here's a recent photo of the largest seedling...
8330979253_109e3e9bd3.jpg
I have several seed pods in a bag...mostly of Reed Stem Epidendrum. I'll sow them in a few months but I'll probably try and use an eye dropper this time.
Has anybody else tried sowing orchid seeds directly on their orchid trees?
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I shake Encyclia seeds all over the place, but I haven't found any seedlings on anything yet.

Skell's Bells

 

 

Inland Central Florida, 28N, 81W. Humid-subtropical climate with occasional frosts and freezes. Zone 9b.

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  • 10 months later...
The seedlings are all looking like Laelia anceps...
11379717403_bba3b3e2c0_z.jpg
I know I sowed other types of orchids...so why only Laelia anceps? Maybe because the other orchids require a specific type of fungus that isn't present on my tree. And/or perhaps the conditions on my tree are too harsh for the other orchids that I tried?
My Mexican Laelias are all starting to bloom...so I'm going to cross them with Cattleyas, Encyclias, Brassavolas...and see if any of the crosses will germinate on my tree.
Anybody want to guess how long it will take to select for an epiphytic orchid that can naturalize here in Southern California?
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